Announced today, nice looking in sedan and wagon. 103hp turbo diesel. Unfortunately not sold here. This has to change.
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67 MPG (US) Ford Focus ECOnetic announced
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My friend had a escort diesel back in the day. That thing would run forever on a tank of fuel. Look really funny filling up at the truck stop.
BeGreen said:
It makes me scratch my head every time I think about it. Even if it didn't meet our per gallon emissions, it only uses 25% of the fuel I am currently using. You can't tell me that it misses the emission mark by that kind of percentage.
the US has been getting screwed on cars for 40 years. nothing new.
Ford makes some NICE cars out of the US. the aussie Falcon is awesome. I'd buy one today. But they don't exist here. Same deal with some focus trims.
Ford makes some NICE cars out of the US. the aussie Falcon is awesome. I'd buy one today. But they don't exist here. Same deal with some focus trims.
Jags said:
There is no "per gallon" emissions is why. The EPA's formula is created by idiotic bureaucrats who are completely clueless when it comes to emissions but of course they allow military vehicles and government vehicles and installations to continue to pollute with little or no repercussions.
BeGreen said:
67 MPG with the British test ratings probably equals around 58-60 MPG USA EPA highway ratings.
Sounds good, but I'd like to see actual road tests in real life with production vehicles.
My 91 low-tech Volkswagen 1.6 diesel Jetta has gotten a best of 51 MPG but 47 is the usually highway average.
My 81 Chevy Chevettte 1.8 diesel gets a best of 48 MPG (US gallons - not Canadian or British).
Not as good as the new Ford projections and neither as powerful. But both cruise at 75 MPH just fine which is OK with me.
jdemaris said:
Note that the title says 67 mpg (US). The Focus ECOnetic is expected to use less than 3.5 litres of diesel per 100 kilometers (67 mpg US) and to deliver CO2 emissions of less than 95g/km when certification is completed later this year.
I would buy it. I have an '06 Focus that has just over 100K on it. In that time I have only done oil changes, replaced tires and had the front brake pads replaced and rotors turned. On my 80 mile, mostly highway commute, it gets about 31 mpg. I would love to cut my fuel consumption in half. Please Detroit, bring the small diesels to the US!
BeGreen said:
Yes, it states 67 statute miles per United States liquid gallon, but the figure is for the British Test Cycle. From what I've see with other cars and tests. the EPA highway rating will be around 5-7 MPG less. Time will tell when the car actually gets built, sold, and tested.
Still a good figure, but not what I'd consider a huge leap since I can get 50 MPG with my 91 Volkswagen.
I used to have an 80s Honda CRX HF with a gas engine that just about always got better then 50 MPG on the highway.
Right now, with the diesel 40 cents more per gallon then gas, I suspect that Honda would be near as cheap to drive as a new diesel Focus. It was smaller though.
Could you point out where the British test cycle figure is used? I have reread the article and a few others on this car and don't see the reference. You could be correct, but I don't see the connection.
FWIW, the release is expected and real unless the EU shuts down. Why the skepticism?
FWIW, the release is expected and real unless the EU shuts down. Why the skepticism?
BeGreen said:
From what I've read, the better question is where do you NOT see it mentioned?
I've probably read through 20 different Web-announcements from all over the world and they are seem to be citing the same information source.
"The 1.6 TDCi is rated on the European driving cycle at the U.S. equivalent of 67 mpg."
Where are you NOT finding this?
BeGreen said:
Not total skepticism on my part. My opinion is based on what I've seen in the past 60 years, over and over. EPA specs are usually lower then Bristish test-cycle specs. Claims of new cars not yet actually tested in the real world often wind up being a little less. If not, that's fine with me. I am a new Ford fan since they are the only self-owned USA car company left.
If I have any innate skepticism, it is about the USA-American consumer in general. Autos built primarily for fuel efficiency have never been good sellers here. Gas or diesel. Not unless there was a big fuel crunch going on, that is often regarded as temporary. I've seen it happen several times in my lifetime, including back when we had odd and even number license plates and could only buy gas on the correct day.
My 80s Honda CRX got over 50 MPG on reg. gas. My 91 Volkswagen diesel gets up to 50 MPG. My 81 Chevy Chevette 4-door diesel gets a best aorund 46 MPG. Now, in 2012 - to me a big jump would be a small car that gets maybe 70 or 80 MPG? Considering the price of a new car, the 40 cents more per gallon now for diesel, the lower energy in today's diesel, and the difficulty of repair on new tech cars- seems some of the older high-mileage cars were, and still are, pretty good.
Here are some of the claims I see repeated all over the Net - often reworded and paraphrased.
“It's based on the regular Focus model, but it features a series of efficiency tweaks to push fuel consumption down to 3.5 liters/100km in the European cycle (that's 67 MPG in US gallons, though it would probably be a bit lower on the US testing cycle). “
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x839478
“The 1.6 TDCi is rated on the European driving cycle at the U.S. equivalent of 67 mpg.â€
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“Ford claims that the Focus Econetic can achieve up to 80 mpg on the European testing cycle, or about 67 mpg here in the U.S.â€
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/04/06/ford-shows-off-66-mpg-focus-econetic-ahead-of-amsterdam-debut/
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Still didn't read anything about a British testing cycle. The first quote is just a forum opinion. The more telling info comes from the autoblog posts which indicate the adjustment (80mpg in Europe ending up being about 67mpg here) has already been applied.
We'll see. I hope it's a winner. Like you said earlier, the proof of the pudding will be once the car is on the market and tested.
We'll see. I hope it's a winner. Like you said earlier, the proof of the pudding will be once the car is on the market and tested.
BeGreen said:
Ford has mentioned the British Test Cycle many times in their own projections.
Granted that some the news posted have it written where it is up to interpretation.
Fords claims are not.
Ford claims that the Focus Econetic can achieve up to 80 mpg on the European testing cycle, or about 67 mpg here in the U.S
That does not mean 67 MPG with US testing. It means that original 80 MPG uses British gallons, and when that same figure it conveted to US gallons, ti's only 67.
67 miles/gallon(US) = 80.4 miles/gallon(UK) and 3.5 liters/100 km
jdemaris said:
I believe that is EXACTLY what BG was sayin'
That car in the USA with USA gallons should test out at 67 mpg.
Jags said:
No. That 67 MPG USA is miles-per-US gallon with the British Test Cycle, NOT the EPA test. The EPA test always shows less. It is NOT equal to the British Test.
Pretty simple math. Ford projects 80 MPG with the British test cycle and with the larger UK gallons. The same equals 67 US gallons, just by math. No adjustment has been posted to change that high British Test Cycle number - down to the EPA number.
67 MPG (with US gallons) adjusted to the US EPA figures comes to around 60 MPG.
Some of this makes me laugh bit since there have been problems for years when US people see European mileage projectiions and think we here in the US are getting ripped off. Yes, we don't get the true economy cars many do in Europe, but much is hyped due to bad conversions. Different test cycles and larger gallons in the UK and Canada. Next time you see a Canadian brag that a full size diesel Chevy pickup truck is getting 27 MPG, that's why. 27 MPG in Canada is only 22 MPG in the USA - with the same truck when tested exactly the same.
jdemaris said:
If that is in fact the method of the tests, thank you for clarifying. It is somewhat muddled info.
It's all speculation until we see some actual road mileage figures. EPA figures don't represent real world either. I know of several Prius owners that have steadily managed to exceed EPA test mileage. It depends a lot on the local terrain, temperature, wind, and the weight of the driver's right foot.
Perhaps automakers think theres no money to be made trying to outdo each other in the high MPG wars
As gas prices jump upward, just the opposite is happening. Right now there is a surge in high mpg car sales.
Incredibly promising Focus, this sort of thing needs to come to the US. I have high hopes that the newer deisels in the BMW 3 series and VW's are going to go a long way to changing US attitudes in general about deisels...unfortunately much of our national perception of deisels is based on the horrible GM gas-deisel converted cars from the late 70's. They don't sounds like dump trucks anymore, nor do they spew massive clouds of black soot everywhere.
Been wondering why hybrid car's don't use small turbodeisels and work more like a deisel-electric locomotive. You could run a little 2 cylinder turbodeisel as an electric generator and do away with most of the heavy weight and high cost of a hybrid...the batteries and just run a small bank of batteries to hold enough charge to filter out any power spikes and run the accessories for a couple hours or so.
Been wondering why hybrid car's don't use small turbodeisels and work more like a deisel-electric locomotive. You could run a little 2 cylinder turbodeisel as an electric generator and do away with most of the heavy weight and high cost of a hybrid...the batteries and just run a small bank of batteries to hold enough charge to filter out any power spikes and run the accessories for a couple hours or so.
mayhem said:
I don't understand that either. I am no engineer, but I imagine that a small diesel powered generator could recharge batteries efficiently and cleanly too. If the generator runs at a constant speed emissions and economy could maximized as well.
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