90s Napoleon 1100 - Ash door leak causing excessive wood consumption?

[ctwoodstove]

Hi All,

Happy Post-Thanksgiving to everyone. I've had an ongoing issue with burning what I believe to be an excessive amount of wood. The issue is described in detail in this post: 90s Napoleon 1100 - Burning Too Much Wood - New Stove?. I'm in the process of trying some of the suggestions from some of folks who graciously responded to the post above. I've been doing some more detailed observations of the stove operation and am wondering if it's normal to have a fairly strong draft (with both the stove flue and stove-pipe damper completely closed) coming from the ash clean-out hole at the base of the firebox. This stove has a hinged flap that can be opened to allow ash to dump into an ash pan and upon close inspection, it definitely doesn't form a tight seal on the ash clean-out hold when closed. The ash pan also does not have a gasket around it that seals it to the outside of the stove, but I don't think it is supposed to based on my review of the manual I found online. I am wondering though, if the ask clean-out hole is missing an "ash plug." The manual refers to an ash plug but it doesn't show a picture of it in the diagrams. I suppose I could cover the hole with a firebrick to see if that makes a difference.

I'm also starting a "burn log" to keep track of how quickly I'm going through wood. I started the fire this morning just before 8am. The stove had about 1 inch of ash at the base and I started with 4 smaller sized splits (I've been burning ash and maple). Once the stove top got to temp, I closed the stove flue and stove-pipe damper completely. at 9:55am, the 4 splits were reduced to coals and I added 4 more larger splits that almost filled the firebox (east/west). I closed the flue and damper completely again and I noticed, as usually, a strong draft appear through the ash clean-out door (despite me filling the hole with coals/ash to try to insulate). I'll report back to this post with the rest of the day's journal results on how many logs are burned and the time of day they are reduced to coals.

While I do know the draft is quite strong in general (stove is located in the basement with a pretty tall cold stack outside), I am still wondering if the stove is functioning properly.

I have taken some video of the burns, but I need to figure to how to post them. Thanks in advance for any ideas.

 

[begreen]

With a cold stove, remove the ash and inspect the ash plug. Sometimes a piece of charcoal or a clinker can get stuck on the rim of the opening or the plug. Make sure that both are clean and the seal is good.

Are the basement walls insulated?

 

[ctwoodstove]

With a cold stove, remove the ash and inspect the ash plug. Sometimes a piece of charcoal or a clinker can get stuck on the rim of the opening or the plug. Make sure that both are clean and the seal is good.

Are the basement walls insulated?

I'll try that. Attached is a pic of the ash clean-out from below the firebox (with the ash pan removed). You can see the door is not seating properly and with a closer look, the door looks warped (bent in the middle) so even if it was seated, the door would not be flush to the opening. I'll check to see if it's not closed due to stuck debris (cold stove of course).

As far as the burn log is concerned, the 4 splits added this morning at 9:55am were reduced to coals by 11:15. I spread the coals out and got another 20-30 minutes of burn out of them before I added another 3 splits (11:35pm). A little after 1:00pm, the 3 splits were reduced to coals again. So, in 5 hours, I've gone through 11 splits.

 

[ctwoodstove]

I'll try that. Attached is a pic of the ash clean-out from below the firebox (with the ash pan removed). You can see the door is not seating properly and with a closer look, the door looks warped (bent in the middle) so even if it was seated, the door would not be flush to the opening. I'll check to see if it's not closed due to stuck debris (cold stove of course).

As far as the burn log is concerned, the 4 splits added this morning at 9:55am were reduced to coals by 11:15. I spread the coals out and got another 20-30 minutes of burn out of them before I added another 3 splits (11:35pm). A little after 1:00pm, the 3 splits were reduced to coals again. So, in 5 hours, I've gone through 11 splits.

Oh, and the basement wall are insulated.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

You should not be able to see fire with the ash door closed.

 

[begreen]

You should not be able to see fire with the ash door closed.

Yes, it should seal tightly. That could be the issue. Try letting the ash bed accumulate instead of daily cleanings. The ash layer acts as insulation under the coal bed, keeping the fire hotter. Maybe try cleaning it out once a week? Or cut a piece of firebrick to completely cover the ash hole area and seal it off. Then, shovel out the ash once a week or so.

 

[ctwoodstove]

Yes, it should seal tightly. That could be the issue. Try letting the ash bed accumulate instead of daily cleanings. The ash layer acts as insulation under the coal bed, keeping the fire hotter. Maybe try cleaning it out once a week? Or cut a piece of firebrick to completely cover the ash hole area and seal it off. Then, shovel out the ash once a week or so.

Thanks for the replies and confirmation that the ash door should seal. Update: I let the stove cool sufficiently and played around with the ash door mechanism for quite awhile. I could not get it to seal completely. I actually think the stove was supposed to have come with an ash plug and that the ash door was not designed to make a perfect seal because the plug would take care of that. Anyway, I don't have any firebricks so, in the meantime, I packed the firebox ash clean-out chute with ash until it was pretty solidly tight and lit another fire. Wow! That was definitely the issue. I have never been able to control the flames with the stove flue, only the stove-pipe damper that I installed due to the excessive draft. I can now operate the stove with the stove-pipe damper wide open and I can completely control the flame with only the stove flue. My plan is to cut a firebrick and "wall off" the ash chute to provide a more permanent seal; I'll just move to shoveling the ash out instead of dumping it through the chute. Thanks again for your input and I hoping this will have an significant effect on the amount of wood I've been consuming.

 

[begreen]

Yay, it's great that the cause has been found. There are a few options. See if you can find a used ash plug, or make your own. Or, instead of cutting a floor brick to fit, remove the two little bricks on the sides of the hole, vacuum clean, then place a metal plate in that whole area and fill the gap with a full sized 9x4.5x1.25" brick. These are available at most stove shops or online or at some better lumber yards.

This is what the ash plug looks like.

 

[begreen]

It's a pricey little bugger. Looks like 2 metal plates clamping a square of kaowool (ceramic) insulation.

https://www.stove-parts-unlimited.com/napoleon-1100pl-1400ml-ash-plug-w010-1577-ser-p/w010-1577-ser.htm

 

[Burnin Since 1991]

It's a pricey little bugger. Looks like 2 metal plates clamping a square of kaowool (ceramic) insulation.

https://www.stove-parts-unlimited.com/napoleon-1100pl-1400ml-ash-plug-w010-1577-ser-p/w010-1577-ser.htm

I'm thinking cut a fire brick to size with an angle grinder and call it done. That's a lot for a "plug".

 

[begreen]

No need to cut the brick. I think there is just a full-sized brick covering the plug area when there is no ashpan. Of course there is a plate there in that case so I would put a plate of 24 ga sheetmetal down first for better sealing before covering with the firebrick.

 

[begreen]

Wondering if a 4", blank electric box cover would work.

 

[Burnin Since 1991]

Wondering if a 4", blank electric box cover would work.

all of them would have 2 screw holes though would that make a difference?

 

[begreen]

all of them would have 2 screw holes though would that make a difference?

No, it's just a cover plate sitting under the firebrick. But I supposed the screw holes could be used to mount the plate in place.

 

[Burnin Since 1991]

No, it's just a cover plate sitting under the firebrick. But I supposed the screw holes could be used to mount the plate in place.

I've never used a wood stove with an ash pan. Can you leave the ash in there year round or should it be emptied at some point?

 

[begreen]

I've never used a wood stove with an ash pan. Can you leave the ash in there year round or should it be emptied at some point?

That could be difficult if there is so much ash that it's spilling out the door when opened and restricting some loading capacity. It depends on the wood species being burned. Some leave little ash and others leave a lot.

 

[Burnin Since 1991]

That could be difficult if there is so much ash that it's spilling out the door when opened and restricting some loading capacity. It depends on the wood species being burned. Some leave little ash and others leave a lot.

I should have phrased that differently. If you fill up the ash pan and leave it full and then shovel out the stove instead will leaving the ash in the ash pan year round be ok? I read on here a lot that people are having issues with air leaks from the ash pan and most just let the ash pan fill up and then just shovel out the stove to remove ashes.

 

[begreen]

I should have phrased that differently. If you fill up the ash pan and leave it full and then shovel out the stove instead will leaving the ash in the ash pan year round be ok? I read on here a lot that people are having issues with air leaks from the ash pan and most just let the ash pan fill up and then just shovel out the stove to remove ashes.

In stoves with smaller ashpans that definitely can work. It's how I ran our F400. In some pedestal units the ash bin is very large. It could take a long time to fill it up, especially if buring low ash wood.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I’d let my Englander 30 fill up until I couldn’t get as much wood as I wanted in there. I’d pull 6 gallons of ash out at a time, lol.