A personal update....

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woodgeek

Minister of Fire
Jan 27, 2008
5,523
SE PA
Greetings old friends!

I've been coming to hearth.com for more than a decade now, and seen all the ups and downs and changes. I miss Craig, and I even miss elkimmeg.

I have been a bit absent in 2018 as I've been sorting a couple things in my personal life.

Bottom line...I am going through a 'messy' divorce, separated legally since June 2018. I have two teen daughters, who are handling things as well as can be expected. This is my second marriage (first lasted just a couple years in my 20s, no kids).

In terms of my lived experience....

I fell head over heels in love with this woman in 1999, felt that we were a perfect match beyond anything that I had ever dreamed of, and the love and the bond never left me in 18 years of marriage. We got through our normal life stresses at work over two decades together, enjoyed raising our two girls, and are now prepping them to go off to college and starting their own lives. We saved our money, and went from broke to comfortable to thinking about a life of relative leisure and a cozy retirement together.

Of course, our relationship wasn't perfect....we disagreed about some things, fought occasionally. I always found a couple of her behaviors odd...but in a loving marriage we should accommodate the other in some ways...nobody is perfect, right? One of those behaviors was what I would describe as her 'moodiness' and a tendency to occasionally get upset or freaked out to the point of rage at me. Not pretty of course, but I figured it could be a lot worse. She would never really apologize (just a tiny, oops I'm sorry) for this...and again I accommodated.

If you had asked me....over all those years I would have said I was happily married, loved my wife and was confident that she loved me too. Our marriage seemed to be better than that of all our friends that I knew.

I will spare the sordid details in a public forum, but all I can say is that here, now, I finally know the truth. My wife was living a double life. She was having affairs with at least 4 other men over at least the last 8 years of our marriage. When you are in love and trust your spouse, you are blind to these sorts of unthinkable things. And in addition to my blindness...she was super sneaky. This is also her second marriage, her first one ended when her infidelity was discovered, and she was publicly shamed. She told me she 'learned her lesson' from that....and I thought she meant that was to not cheat....nope, the lesson was to **not get caught**.

My wife has a 150 IQ, a PhD in psychology and a lifelong and incurable **personality disorder**.

The disorder leads her to a life of pathological lying...never showing her true self or intentions to anyone...even her romantic partners. She is literally play-acting and sees herself as selfishly exploiting everyone in her life, all of the time, and enjoying that power-play. The same disorder precludes her forming a loving bond with anyone, although she can and does get infatuated, a combo that leads her to serial relationships lasting 12-36 months with the other men. Once her infatuation fades (as it did with me around 2004) the prior love interest is devalued, becoming a non-person worthy of contempt (which need not be displayed of course, if you want to exploit them). It is clear that she has felt zero compassion or empathy for me for the last 14 years, less than you would feel for a stranger, while pretending she did just enough to keep me from getting wise.

Her IQ allowed her to be super covert about her double life. I am no dummy or clueless person, but she had me fooled. This was NOT a case of me walking in on her, finding mens undies in my bed or getting a tip off email from a stranger. When I finally got suspicious, it took me hacking all her tech and personal communications for 2 months, pulling all her financial transactions for more than a decade and actually lab testing her clothing to figure it out! She is the effin Lex Luthor of cheating. Damn.

So imagine the surreal nightmare...your loving wife and kids' mother, of 18 years, that you adore, turns out to be something akin to a super-genius serial-killer! She's not homicidal, of course, but basically has the same mentality and degree of caring about her now many victim(s).

How am I doing six months later....surprisingly well. This has been traumatic for me, obviously. But I feel lucky. I have a few trusted friends, a couple great siblings, a really good therapist and a steady job I love.

I am not healed, but I know I will heal.

And I am very glad that I know the truth, and have removed a toxic person from my life.

Peace.
 
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You will survive wood geek and be the wiser for it. Lots of less diabolical women out there ,you will find one. Hopefully venting will help the healing process.
 
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Indeed Randy. I live and work in the second most populous metro area on the East Coast, which is filled with suitable single women my age. I have already met a couple, but am honestly not feeling ready to 'date'. Yet.

My venting is mostly passed.
 
One of the great mysteries of the universe is figuring out if your woman is "happy" . Hard to ever really be sure. Iv had 23 good years so far with mine and if it all ended tomorrow, i would still be happy for the time i had. It is that much harder when there is children involved. Your fellow woodburners are rooting for you to power through.
 
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well guy, never a fun situation w/ kids in the pic. lived through one of those a lifetime ago, ex had a change of sexual preference! toughest part for me was the daughters I left in that home, question my decision to this day.

realization of the under stuff is an eye opening discovery when your not looking for it. all the best to you and from this distance I would think you'll be better off.

may the force be with you
 
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Sorry to hear that.

Next-door neighbor was over for BBQ 10 years ago. He said the neighbors across the street were getting divorced. I asked, "what happened?"

He said that his son (in his 20s) was visiting from England, and was out in a bar in town at night. The woman across the street (around 50) didn't recognize him and tried to pick him up.

Neighbor had to mention it to the husband since they are good friends. Turns out the wife has been "going out with friends" at night, coming home well after bars close, and wouldn't tell her husband where she was,

After the divorce, there was always a different vehicle parked in the driveway when I went out to get the morning newspaper. The car would leave early morning, never to be seen again.

Or, when she would get home from a bar at 3 AM with some guy she would let her yappy miniature long-hair dachshund out to bark.

She sold the house and is gone.
 
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I'm sorry to hear about the troubles you've discovered.

I don't think the discovery could ever be easy, less so with kids involved.

You'll be in my thoughts, and I hope the kids understand.
 
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I'm very sorry to hear that life has thrown these challenges at you and your daughters. Things will work out. Be open with your girls and kind to yourself. You are a valued member and contributor here at Hearth.com.
 
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I hope everything turns out well for you and your girls but onto more important matters: what is in your stove right now? And are you 3 years ahead?
 
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Greetings old friends!

I've been coming to hearth.com for more than a decade now, and seen all the ups and downs and changes. I miss Craig, and I even miss elkimmeg.

I have been a bit absent in 2018 as I've been sorting a couple things in my personal life.

Bottom line...I am going through a 'messy' divorce, separated legally since June 2018. I have two teen daughters, who are handling things as well as can be expected. This is my second marriage (first lasted just a couple years in my 20s, no kids).

In terms of my lived experience....

I fell head over heels in love with this woman in 1999, felt that we were a perfect match beyond anything that I had ever dreamed of, and the love and the bond never left me in 18 years of marriage. We got through our normal life stresses at work over two decades together, enjoyed raising our two girls, and are now prepping them to go off to college and starting their own lives. We saved our money, and went from broke to comfortable to thinking about a life of relative leisure and a cozy retirement together.

Of course, our relationship wasn't perfect....we disagreed about some things, fought occasionally. I always found a couple of her behaviors odd...but in a loving marriage we should accommodate the other in some ways...nobody is perfect, right? One of those behaviors was what I would describe as her 'moodiness' and a tendency to occasionally get upset or freaked out to the point of rage at me. Not pretty of course, but I figured it could be a lot worse. She would never really apologize (just a tiny, oops I'm sorry) for this...and again I accommodated.

If you had asked me....over all those years I would have said I was happily married, loved my wife and was confident that she loved me too. Our marriage seemed to be better than that of all our friends that I knew.

I will spare the sordid details in a public forum, but all I can say is that here, now, I finally know the truth. My wife was living a double life. She was having affairs with at least 4 other men over at least the last 8 years of our marriage. When you are in love and trust your spouse, you are blind to these sorts of unthinkable things. And in addition to my blindness...she was super sneaky. This is also her second marriage, her first one ended when her infidelity was discovered, and she was publicly shamed. She told me she 'learned her lesson' from that....and I thought she meant that was to not cheat....nope, the lesson was to **not get caught**.

My wife has a 150 IQ, a PhD in psychology and a lifelong and incurable **personality disorder**.

The disorder leads her to a life of pathological lying...never showing her true self or intentions to anyone...even her romantic partners. She is literally play-acting and sees herself as selfishly exploiting everyone in her life, all of the time, and enjoying that power-play. The same disorder precludes her forming a loving bond with anyone, although she can and does get infatuated, a combo that leads her to serial relationships lasting 12-36 months with the other men. Once her infatuation fades (as it did with me around 2004) the prior love interest is devalued, becoming a non-person worthy of contempt (which need not be displayed of course, if you want to exploit them). It is clear that she has felt zero compassion or empathy for me for the last 14 years, less than you would feel for a stranger, while pretending she did just enough to keep me from getting wise.

Her IQ allowed her to be super covert about her double life. I am no dummy or clueless person, but she had me fooled. This was NOT a case of me walking in on her, finding mens undies in my bed or getting a tip off email from a stranger. When I finally got suspicious, it took me hacking all her tech and personal communications for 2 months, pulling all her financial transactions for more than a decade and actually lab testing her clothing to figure it out! She is the effin Lex Luthor of cheating. Damn.

So imagine the surreal nightmare...your loving wife and kids' mother, of 18 years, that you adore, turns out to be something akin to a super-genius serial-killer! She's not homicidal, of course, but basically has the same mentality and degree of caring about her now many victim(s).

How am I doing six months later....surprisingly well. This has been traumatic for me, obviously. But I feel lucky. I have a few trusted friends, a couple great siblings, a really good therapist and a steady job I love.

I am not healed, but I know I will heal.

And I am very glad that I know the truth, and have removed a toxic person from my life.

Peace.
Man, that is tough. I had a very mild dose of one of those in my early 20's. Will never fully recover, but we gotta keep on truckin', brother. I've never married and will probably not, because of it. No need to rush back in, but I did find "dating" therapeutic after.

We recently had a couple we were friends with go through the similar thing, he still adored her, and she was absolutely brutal.

Really ain't no words of consolation, but I am sorry you are going through it.
 
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I would agree that truly knowing what is in another's heart is impossible (and not just for women). If that person has literally dedicated their lives to deceiving others about their true intentions....then they get pretty damned good at it.

What can I say? Everyone has problems....I could crash my car, my dog could die, I could have terminal cancer, or I could have a wife with a personality disorder. I'll take this over cancer I guess.

About 5% of women (and men) in the US have this disorder....so that means that everyone knows someone that this has or could happen to. I like to think my wife is exceptional among that 5%, in terms of her intelligence, shameless-ness and sneakiness...but that is probably just me being prideful. LOL.

The other thing said up thread by Randy, about being grateful for the time I had....is difficult given the circumstances....but absolutely right on. If she and I and our two girls did something fun together and made a happy memory...the fact that she was a monster inside, or texting one of the other men at the same time....doesn't. really. matter. The memory remains real to me and my girls.

While I was happy for most of my marriage, the final 18 mos or so (before I discovered the affairs) were pretty much a hellscape. Six months after separation I am doing better...and (based upon the experience of others) probably can expect to be recovered in another 6-12 months. I know that my future will be happier than my past.

I really appreciate the sentiment guys...not expecting any more than that...as you might imagine there are other fora for this sort of thing!
 
That's Hard. Been thru it, it's very depressing. What every you do, never remarry same Woman. Did that for Kid and not worth it. Life goes on and other Women out there. Ones that can be honest and faithful too. I got good one 17 years ago. Wish you the Best! If your ever really depressed remember to reach out for help like this or phone.
 
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Once you get past this WG you will feel invincible. What doesnt kill you makes you stronger. Most of us have been through something similar. It cuts like a knife, i know from experience ,but it does heal.
 
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Once you get past this WG you will feel invincible. What doesnt kill you makes you stronger. Most of us have been through something similar. It cuts like a knife, i know from experience ,but it does heal.

I'm getting there. Sometimes already I feel quite on top of the world. I AM lucky.
 
Sounds like a narcissist to me. Been there done that. You will heal, it will take time. Love yourself, and move forward in life. Don't rush into something new, till you are healed and rebuilt yourself to the newer, improved version. Crappy life lesson, I know I could have done without, but in the end it strengthens one, and now you know what to look out for. Hang tough, it gets better. Much better.
 
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Thanks all. If you have been through it, there is nothing to explain. If you haven't, explaining won't help you understand.

Yup @Hogwildz its Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD), 'covert' subtype, in a very intelligent and 'high-functioning' individual. Many 'narc's are easy to spot a mile away...the self-aggrandizement, the put-downs on their spouse, terrorizing wait-staff in restaurants.

The covert types are a lot more evil...

My wife presents as not just NOT narcissistic, but as one of the nicest, most selfless, ethical and trustworthy people you have ever met. She is surrounded by a circle of close friends who adore her for being such a wonderful person who always does the right thing! They continuously reach out to her for advice about the difficult situations in their lives.

When I found out about her double life, I of course told some of the friends that I thought (foolishly) were my friends too. People that my kids considered aunts and uncles...that have celebrated dozens of holidays in my house, travelled on many week long vacations with us, whose kids I have helped out and mentored. And not a single one believed me. Some told me that to my face, that wife was just such a good person....why would I lie about her like that? Others listened and pretended to believe me, asking me to confide more details that were then immediately repeated back to their master (my wife) so she could better 'defend herself' from me.

So of course, these smart NPDs are planners. They have a Plan B in case the spouse finds out (or is tipped off)...she character assassinated me to the whole circle for more than a decade....told them all that I was emotionally and physically abusive...a wife-beater...!!...and swore them to secrecy about her 'dirty secret' that she has chosen to live with a filthy abuser that she loved, rather than put the kids through a divorce.

So I have had to literally write off 95% of my social network at the same time I am going through this. I have gotten zero support from any of them. They have all rallied to wife's side (according to my kids) inviting her over to their homes for weekly meals, planning fun events for their families with wife and my kids, still vacationing and celebrating holidays with them....so she is supported in her 'time of need'. Snort.

------------------------------

Going forward...I'm clearly gonna be aok. I still have a few friends to have a beer with in the area, and a larger number to talk to around the world. I am happy to make some new ones...not something I have ever struggled with....making new friends is part of life...e.g. when you move across the country.

With luck I will be divorced in a few more months, and when I am ready/healed I will be wealthy eligible bachelor with solid character, two loving daughters, a (robust) sense of humor, an elite career and a steady income.

In hindsight there were red flags with my wife in the beginning of the relationship. They are pretty easy to spot now. I will not be in a relationship with a disordered person again (or not for very long, anyway) so there is no fear for that.

Ad astra per aspera
 
Thanks all. If you have been through it, there is nothing to explain. If you haven't, explaining won't help you understand.

Yup @Hogwildz its Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD), 'covert' subtype, in a very intelligent and 'high-functioning' individual. Many 'narc's are easy to spot a mile away...the self-aggrandizement, the put-downs on their spouse, terrorizing wait-staff in restaurants.

The covert types are a lot more evil...

My wife presents as not just NOT narcissistic, but as one of the nicest, most selfless, ethical and trustworthy people you have ever met. She is surrounded by a circle of close friends who adore her for being such a wonderful person who always does the right thing! They continuously reach out to her for advice about the difficult situations in their lives.

When I found out about her double life, I of course told some of the friends that I thought (foolishly) were my friends too. People that my kids considered aunts and uncles...that have celebrated dozens of holidays in my house, travelled on many week long vacations with us, whose kids I have helped out and mentored. And not a single one believed me. Some told me that to my face, that wife was just such a good person....why would I lie about her like that? Others listened and pretended to believe me, asking me to confide more details that were then immediately repeated back to their master (my wife) so she could better 'defend herself' from me.

So of course, these smart NPDs are planners. They have a Plan B in case the spouse finds out (or is tipped off)...she character assassinated me to the whole circle for more than a decade....told them all that I was emotionally and physically abusive...a wife-beater...!!...and swore them to secrecy about her 'dirty secret' that she has chosen to live with a filthy abuser that she loved, rather than put the kids through a divorce.

So I have had to literally write off 95% of my social network at the same time I am going through this. I have gotten zero support from any of them. They have all rallied to wife's side (according to my kids) inviting her over to their homes for weekly meals, planning fun events for their families with wife and my kids, still vacationing and celebrating holidays with them....so she is supported in her 'time of need'. Snort.

------------------------------

Going forward...I'm clearly gonna be aok. I still have a few friends to have a beer with in the area, and a larger number to talk to around the world. I am happy to make some new ones...not something I have ever struggled with....making new friends is part of life...e.g. when you move across the country.

With luck I will be divorced in a few more months, and when I am ready/healed I will be wealthy eligible bachelor with solid character, two loving daughters, a (robust) sense of humor, an elite career and a steady income.

In hindsight there were red flags with my wife in the beginning of the relationship. They are pretty easy to spot now. I will not be in a relationship with a disordered person again (or not for very long, anyway) so there is no fear for that.

Ad astra per aspera
Right on, WG! There's plenty more friends to be made in the world. Ride off from that mess, asap, much as you can with kids in the mix.
 
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Glad you're moving forward and healing.

I was also first married right out of college briefly in my early 20s. June 1980. Moved out November 1981. No kids. We were both just way too young. She was working; I was in grad school. I waited the necessary year and did a pro se divorce. Only saw her once from a distance in a mall bookstore not that long after we divorced. Looking back, the divorce was both our faults.

Fast forward almost 35 years to 2015. I saw a list of lost alumni from our college. Scrolled down, and it was list of deceased alumni. Her name was on the deceased list. Did a search and found that she died in 2004 at the age of 46. It was very sad even thought I hadn't seen her in 35 years.
 
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Paul, I am so sorry for your loss?

....my ex wife (from my 20s) is very much alive and we had zero contact from when the divorce was final in 1998. A couple months ago she sniffed me out on FaceBook, and made me as newly separated.

so of course she reached out, we emailed back and forth a bit for a month, became FB friends.

Background: she married the 'other man' she cheated on me with; they have been married for 16 years and have two cute kids.

Punchline: of course after 6 weeks of emails she propositioned me for an affair! Musical chairs, now I could be the 'other man' and the other man would now be the cuckold? SMH.

Bottom Line: she is now 'blocked' and I learned an important lesson that people with personality disorders don't change.

My ex was/is the opposite of my current wife in every way....a 'bad girl' persona....with 'Borderline Personality Disorder' or BPD.
 
Hire a darn good lawyer and maybe a therapist for the kids. Definitely go over things like insurance and retirement plans with a fine tooth comb to ensure she is locked out. Its worth putting a statement in your credit reports and then freezing them. Personalities like your ex are going to get some perverse enjoyment out of every little booby trap she left that you find. Obviously she is going to target your weak point which are your kids.

The tough thing is that you are going to be scarred from this relationship when dealing with folks. You may be able to work it out yourself but you may need help. There are plenty of good folks out there but if you assume they are out to get you the ex wins.
 
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Very insightful @peakbagger...I've got that all sorted here 6 months out. She still lays me some traps....but I am mostly seeing them in time now. The kids are a long game....we don't want to fight through them, but of course she will be covertly undermining me to them. That's all too long a story for a thread...but I'm on it. With therapists all around.

As for curling up into a fetal position....not gonna happen. My problem is generally that I am too trusting, not too untrusting. I will go out there, and tack a list of red flags onto my mirror so I don't forget them.

As for her winning....nope. She has to live inside her sicko brain for the rest of her life....these folks usually don't end up in a good place relationally.
 
Good luck, WG.

I have been missing your long posts on the future of energy.
 
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First off I'm so sorry to hear this and hope you successfully untangle yourself from the relationship and heal as soon as possible.

I have a family member who displays the same pathologic and manipulative behavior, the world and the people in it exist only for their own benefit.

Stay smart and although it's natural to want to fight fire with fire my sincerest wishes that you remain strong, stay true to yourself and rise above.
 
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Just keep in mind, she may attempt to hoover you. More do than don't. They all want a bunch of backups for supply, as the supply is what they live for. They cannot stand to be alone, and the supply is the only thing they can attempt to fill that void with. Of course the void is never filled. It is a sad life they lead, just a shame they hurt so many along their lifetime. There is no going back, as it will only be the short lived love bombing in the beginning, and then even worse never ending shatstorm. I know exactly what you are going through, and yes, those that have not been through it, have no clue. Keep moving forward, never look back, because that person in your heart & mind, never truly existed. It was all a show to lure you in. They are not capable of true love, compassion, or empathy. It is a mask, and what lies behind is hollow & empty. As for the "friends", let her have them, they will either continue to be supply for her, or figure it out in time. These devils are very good at what they do, they have had a lifetime to hone the skill. Now you know, and that is your most powerful deterrent. In the end, they burn all the bridges, and live a very lonely existence. F them!
 
Just keep in mind, she may attempt to hoover you. More do than don't. They all want a bunch of backups for supply, as the supply is what they live for. They cannot stand to be alone, and the supply is the only thing they can attempt to fill that void with. Of course the void is never filled. It is a sad life they lead, just a shame they hurt so many along their lifetime. There is no going back, as it will only be the short lived love bombing in the beginning, and then even worse never ending shatstorm. I know exactly what you are going through, and yes, those that have not been through it, have no clue. Keep moving forward, never look back, because that person in your heart & mind, never truly existed. It was all a show to lure you in. They are not capable of true love, compassion, or empathy. It is a mask, and what lies behind is hollow & empty. As for the "friends", let her have them, they will either continue to be supply for her, or figure it out in time. These devils are very good at what they do, they have had a lifetime to hone the skill. Now you know, and that is your most powerful deterrent. In the end, they burn all the bridges, and live a very lonely existence. F them!
Hoover? Suck you in?

Yep, totally right. I was a sucker for it myself. Very difficult to resist. Worse for wear for it. Just sets you back.

WG, help comes in strange ways and places. I myself would have not thought to look for it here. Yet, here you found it.