A Wood Stove With No Required R-Value For Floor Protection?

[jmierzej]

Hello,

Long time reader, first time poster - but I finally got a question that I think is worth asking. I'm purchasing an Isle Royale by Quadrafire. I'm building my own hearth pad because of space considerations. The Isle Royale manual gives no definitive answer regarding the required R-Value of floor protection, so I posted some questions to Quadrafire directly on their website. This is the question/response thread I had with Quadrafire....

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My 1st Question: I am building a custom hearth pad for the Isle Royale. I have spoken with my Quadra-Fire dealer regarding the required R-value for the hearth pad. The dealer contacted Quadra-Fire (on two separate occassions) and was given two very different R-values: .60 & 2.22. This is very confusing because the same dealer then said I could purchase an AJ Hearth Originals hearth pad which would definitely be sufficient....except that AJ Hearth Originals states that their hearth pad has on R-value of 1.44....which doesn't meet the 2.22 requirement. Long story short, I need a definitive answer to this question, as the manual does not specifically state the required R value for the Isle Royale.

Quadrafire Response: Thank you for your inquiry. The Isle Royale no longer requires an R Value for a hearth pad provided it is non-combustible material.


My 2nd Question: So if there is no minimum R-Value for the non-combustible material I can place a piece of Granite directly on my wood floor and place the Isle Royale right on that? Does the Isle Royale have some bottom heat shield?

Quadrafire Response: Yes, granite is non-combustible. There is not a bottom heat shield listed in the Isle Royale.

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Have any of you ever heard of such a thing? A wood stove that doesn't need floor protection with any insulator properties? Can I really just put a piece of granite directly on my wood floor and put the Isle Royale right on top of that?

Thanks!

Justin

 

[Jags]

After a Looong hot burn, my hearth pad in front of the IR is nicely warm to the tootsies. I believe it.

 

[blades]

Find out what your local code is and build to that or better. Most likely they will quote the national code standards

 

[jmierzej]

My local code quotes national standards (NFPA 211), which if I read them correctly only cite distances of non-combustible floor protection from the edge of the stove. With respect to the R-value they say that if the stove is UL listed then I need to follow the manufacturers recommendations.

Jags - as an IR owner this no R-value requirement appears to be reasonable? Can you really stand on your floor protection after a long burn?

 

[cmonSTART]

That's correct. Follow your manual and if it doens't specify an R value a simple noncombustible surface is OK. There are stoves like that.

 

[Jags]

Jags - as an IR owner this no R-value requirement appears to be reasonable? Can you really stand on your floor protection after a long burn?

To be honest - I would have to review my manual to tell you anything specific. My install was done several years ago. As far as standing on the floor protection - you bet. Thats my favorite place to be after I kick my boots off from plowing the drive. It can get "hot", but not "burning hot". I can always lay my palm on it.

 

[Baron62]

I have an Isle Royale and it is a big hot stove so you definitely need floor protection. Here is the link to the owners manual, look on page 7. At least an inch of high R material. Search on pads here and you will finds lots of good design info.
(broken link removed to http://www.quadrafire.com/downloads/installManuals/man_isleroyale.pdf)

BTW - You will love the stove if you have a big area to heat.

 

[CarbonNeutral]

Oslo is the same - ember protection only, though the manual is also unclear.

 

[fossil]

The appliance manufacturer's documentation is the trump card. Local codes will default to the requirements of NFPA 211 in the absence of manufacturer's guidance. The manufacturer provides the clearances and other installation requirements upon which the stove's UL listing was based during laboratory testing. If you have an old stove without such documentation, then, assuming you're allowed to install it at all, you must comply with the NFPA 211 standards in most cases. Your local Authority Having Jurisdiction has the final say, of course, but if you have the book for the stove and it says any non-combustible hearth protection is all that's required, then I don't imagine they're going to give you any grief about it. Rick

 

[firefighterjake]

The appliance manufacturer's documentation is the trump card. Local codes will default to the requirements of NFPA 211 in the absence of manufacturer's guidance. The manufacturer provides the clearances and other installation requirements upon which the stove's UL listing was based during laboratory testing. If you have an old stove without such documentation, then, assuming you're allowed to install it at all, you must comply with the NFPA 211 standards in most cases. Your local Authority Having Jurisdiction has the final say, of course, but if you have the book for the stove and it says any non-combustible hearth protection is all that's required, then I don't imagine they're going to give you any grief about it. Rick

Well said . . . but remember in some places the AHJ may still opt to ask for listed floor protection (i.e. Bangor) even if the manufacturer says only a non-combustible hearth is required . . . and for better or for worse (it's an arguable point) the AHJ can at this point state that they will not approve the install which can become an issue for some folks if the insurance company needs an approved installation letter.

 

[Wet1]

If I were building a hearth or hearth pad, I'd build it with a min. of R1 and preferable over R2. I'd rather have the peace of mind, plus it's cheap and easy to met this before it's constructed... This will also allow you to select from almost any stoves when the IR needs replacing at some point in the future.

 

[eightpilot]

My Oslo has no listed r value for the hearth as well. But it does come with a bottom heatshield and it works. I can run my stove at 600F and the temp of my hearth is cool to the touch. 8

 

[jmierzej]

I have an Isle Royale and it is a big hot stove so you definitely need floor protection. Here is the link to the owners manual, look on page 7. At least an inch of high R material. Search on pads here and you will finds lots of good design info.
(broken link removed to http://www.quadrafire.com/downloads/installManuals/man_isleroyale.pdf)

Quadman - I checked out the link you put up for the Isle Royale manual and I can't find anything on page 7 about needing at least an inch of a high R material.

Other Posters - Thanks for all your input. After continued discussion with Tech Support at Quadrafire, as well as specifically looking at the specification label on the exact stove that will be installed in my house, I am confident that the Isle Royale I will be installing does not require the non-combustible floor protection to have any minimum R-value. Several replies on this thread referencing real life experiences have only served to ease my mind that I will be ok with just putting a piece of granite on my floor and the stove on top of that.

I know some of you think more is better, and would say to put some type of higher R-value material on the floor just to be safe. However, in my situation by doing so I think all that I would be gaining is a more costly and aesthetically unpleasing pad.

Thanks!

Justin

 

[firefighterjake]

Jmierzej . . . I would still recommend checking with your insurance company and whomever would do the fire inspection (if needed) to make sure they do not have any other requirements other than what the manufacturer recommends . . . as I said, as Authorities Having Jurisdiction they can require more stringent requirements so it may be worth checking instead of going ahead with the install and then having to rip everything up if they come along afterwards and require more protection.

 

[Cudos]

For what its worth, I have a PE Super Step Top. It too makes no mention of a required R value, only that there be a non-combustible hearth pad. My hearth is 2x4 construction with 3/4" plywood, 1/2" durock and 1/4" tile.

The response from PE when I inquired.

"Because of the shielding on our stove no R value is required underneath for hearth protection. All that is required is a non combustible hearth pad."