About that 5 cords of cedar slabs?

[RedRanger]

Currently I have 6 cords of fir in the sheds and 5 cords of cedar mill ends under tarps. I`m used to mixing it 50-50 in my old pre-epa insert,even though the cedar burns hot and fast it hasn`t been a problem cause I can shut down the primary,secondary controls, and even close the damper somewhat.

But next week I will be burning in a new epa insert with only the one air control. Am I correct in thinking I`m gonna have to cut down drastically on the fast burning cedar to keep the new insert from over-firing?

I sure love this forum :coolsmile: Lots of good advice here that ya don`t find in the manuals.

 

[savageactor7]

Try it out with a small fire first. Since you've been burning this wood for awhile it sounds to me like you're on top of the situation...you should be alright after observing the stove for a few days.

 

[begreen]

I think we'll all be learning from your experience. It may burn just fine with the 50-50 mix. Experiment a lot with various combos. By next fall you'll be our resident Kodiak expert.

Take some shots of the big boy going in and burning.

 

[Highbeam]

I've burned 100% red cedar firewood and it was controllable in my epa stove. But mill ends are going to be smaller, drier, and more likely to run away on you. The trouble as you know is that you can't stop the train from running away since there is wide open secondary air and a partially open primary air nomatter what you do. When/if that cedar takes off there is little you can do but watch the temps climb.

 

[myzamboni]

I’ve also burned 100% red cedar firewood and it was controllable in my epa stove. The key is don't stuff the stove. I actually love how cedar burns in my stove. I can shut down the primary to get secondaries earlier with cedar than with any other wood (and the secondaries even look better)

 

[RedRanger]

highbeam: what if I leave them flatter? like right now, I really get a slow burn on my old beast, when I burn those things when they are lets say 8"x12" flat, that seems to smother the burn. wheras when I chop them into smaller pieces, like 4 x 6 they really do take off.

Or should I not take the chance with the new monster, in case those huge flat pieces catch and really get going? Ya, most of my cedar is tinder dry. Hey, just asking these questions ahead of time , so maybe I won`t make too many mistakes :cheese:

Lots of kidding and poking fun at my jitters with this new insert, from some, who shall remain unnamed, about me being too concerned about over-firing. That is why I am posing questions now, so I don`t have to learn how to control a "runaway".

Ya, I know para setting in here--NOT. Just being a little bit cautious that`s all.

 

[myzamboni]

Sonny,

You might be onto something with the flat pieces. When I burn wide,flat pieces of pine it seems to burn with the ability to control it.

 

[Jerry_NJ]

This caught my eye as I have a lot of Easter Red Cedar on my property. I have been just "composting" even 6" trunk pieces on an unused hillside as I was afraid to burn thinking it would be a creosote producer, same for pine, I have a lot of White Pine and some Fir. To the point, I buy and scavenger mixed hardwood for my past fireplace and it's long time insert, which was removed last year.

My interest in burning has been increased as I think about putting in a new Quadrafire 3100 Insert in my fireplace and returning to burning wood for heat again next winter, these energy prices doing what they're doing. These prices also push up the price of split/delivered hardwood, I paid $175 for a (short, never get a full by my measure) cord in 2006. I'd guess it'll sell for over $200 in these parts this coming fall/winter. But, if I can make good use of cedar, and perhaps even pine, and it comes free if I provide the labor, it will reducing my wood costs.

 

[Highbeam]

Hi Jerry, The whole thing about a species of wood "causing" creosote is a myth. You can burn pine or cedar and not coke up your chimney so long as it is dry and you burn it properly and with the same methods you would burn all wood.

Quadrafire is a NW company where they don't even really have hardwood. Pine, fir, cedar, and other conifers are the norm for many folks of the americas.


PS: Wooohooo 1000!

 

[Jerry_NJ]

Highbeam, thanks for the input. I'm a past NW person myself, graduated from the University of Washington in ..well a long time ago, and I remember no hardwood for fireplaces. I will start stacking my Cedar and pine for a later burn, assuming I get the Quad 3100-I installed, otherwise I don't really need much wood.

My current fireplace, which had a dump smoke into the smoke chamber, insert for 20 years is loaded with hardened creosote. The chimney cleaning guy, also my Quadrafire dealer, is coming out May 1, to do a roto-clean...just beat the hardened creosote off, this I'm having done regardless and it is required, I'm told for an installation of a stainless steel liner for a new insert. The roto-cleaning alone is a $375 job, so that's the basis of my concern about future creosote. The past case was caused, as I understand it, by dumping smoke into a 12"x12" tile lined flue/chimney where it cooled off and dumped creosote on the walls. All or at least 90%+ was hardwood. The design for a new Quad insert proposes to put in a 6" stainless steel liner that is set in a pour-in insulator that will seal all the space between the SS liner and the existing tile flue. I understand one benefit of this type insulation is to seal all the remaining creosote and any tile damage, which is now contributing a smoke odor throughout the house. Well, back to my concern, if I screw up a new liner so installed with creosote, it will be a real major job to repair next time. I don't know if there is a procedure for removing/replacing a line so insulated short of tearing down the brick chimney.

 

[Highbeam]

All but one of the three types of creosote is easily removable with a brush which will be necessary yearly nomatter what. If you are making the glossy nasty creososote that requires roatary cleaning then you are doing something very wrong and the species of wood won't make a difference.

I too had an insert removed that was installed with only a short piece of stove pipe and then puked into the smoke chamber of my old chimney. It was very messy down by the insert. I ended up removing the chimney due to structural issues after lining the old chimney for safety that year.

The 6" SS liner will be very hard to foul up with any kind of creosote while burning a non-cat quad with dry wood. You just cant smolder these stoves.

 

[Jerry_NJ]

Highbeam, thanks

The insert I removed didn't even have the short piece of stove pipe up the chamber, it just dumped right out of the top of the firebox, through a rectangular hold that had a damper on it. I never tried to use that damper for anything other than full shut-down. The insert box itself was airtight, but the loose fit into the masonry fireplace opening was not airtight, not even near that. This is what caused the build-up of glossy creosote. The old insert was purchased and installed in about 1985, no code requirements then, it seems. In spite of its poor installation design, it did a great job heating, and I didn't have trouble getting the fire started, even with a 31 foot chimney, I'm now told is 13"x13". The new insert, Quad 3100-I is my thinking right now, would be with the full stainless steel liner to the top of the chimney, and likely with TherMix insulation poured into the void between the 6" pipe and the tile liner.

I"m thinking I would clean a stainless steel liner myself, from the owner's manual for the 3100 it looks one has to remove a few internal devices to gain access to the pipe from the insert end, but that would spare me of having to go on the roof, which I will not do in any case, too old and too scared!

Being your listed as WA, I assume you use softwood exclusively. My long term concern, beyond my ownership of the current house, is the life of the stainless steel liner, as I think with the pour in insulation is also the life of the chimney, i.e., one can not go back in and replace the liner sometime in the future.

 

[Highbeam]

I really think that the liner will last for the rest of your life. These things are made of SS unlike plain old single wall stove pipe. If you're worried about the liner failing then I would suggest you consider using one of the blanket style insulation systems that simply attach to the liner so that the whole thing could be removed in 30 years. I do agree with your general idea of non-destructive modifications, a poured and hardened insulation system is pretty hard to reverse.

Yes, I burn softwood only including many less desirable species such as red cedar, willow, and cottonwood along with the traditional staples of doug fir, red alder, and maple. I am not a wood snob and will take anything for the right price. That said, we really notice the difference in heat output between dough fir and cottonwood though the burn times are almost equal due to ashing properties.

 

[Jerry_NJ]

Highbeam,

That's what I'm looking for, an estimate on how long a ss liner lasts. I'd be using 1 to 2 cords a year of mixed hard and soft wood, I can always end a fire with hardwood if that is "cleaner" or something else good. If it is indeed 30+ years for the liner, and if the TherMix, for example, has advantages over a blanket, say odor control, then I'm home on that point and will need only consider other brands before moving forward for a spring or early summer installation. These are slow times for the stove business I'd guess.