Alcove Build for Jotul Rangeley

[akcooper9]

Original plan was to remove the ZC DV propane FP and replace it with a pellet insert....that was before I knew a thing about fireplaces...

So the plan changed and we are turning the area into an alcove and going with a free standing wood burner.

Here is the progress so far. I started Sunday afternoon and as of last night this is where we stand. Will start on the 1/2 usg durock nextgen install tonight. The ceiling support box should be installed by the installer this week and then I can finish the prep work before they stone it.

Enjoy

 

[begreen]

Are you going to install proper NFPA 211 wall and ceiling protection? If not, the clearances are too close.

 

[akcooper9]

Are you going to install wall and ceiling protection? If not, the clearances appear to be too close.

View attachment 128436

Will start on the 1/2 usg durock nextgen install tonight. The ceiling support box should be installed by the installer this week and then I can finish the prep work before they stone it.

I've used the Jotul install document to measure as I built and the only clearance issue Im right up to is the back wall to the stove pipe BUT with a protected wall and double wall connector pipe we are good to go

 

[begreen]

I think you might be misunderstanding the Jotul docs. Hardibacker does not make for an approved wall shielding as shown in the Jotul manual. Note they show a double wall for close clearances. The wall and ceiling shield must be done correctly with a ventilated wall shielding. Otherwise the stove will be too close to combustibles.


Read up on proper wall shielding here:
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/wood_stove_clearances_installing_it_safely

 

[akcooper9]

masonry stone work will be going over the 1/2 usg durock nextgen. what am I missing or miss understanding.

 

[begreen]

Please read the article, it explains what a ventilated wallshield is. I have to head to work, but hopefully others will pick up on this thread. Discuss the installation with your Jotul dealer. You can still do the masonry, but it needs to be on backer board that is on 1" spacers and ventilated top and bottom. The biggest concern appears to be the ceiling. I'm not sure how that is going to be protected with the arch.

 

[akcooper9]

Please read the article, it explains what a ventilated wallshield is. I have to head to work, but hopefully others will pick up on this thread. Discuss the installation with your Jotul dealer. You can still do the masonry, but it needs to be on backer board that is on 1" spacers and ventilated top and bottom. The biggest concern appears to be the ceiling. I'm not sure how that is going to be protected with the arch.

I'll take a look at the link you sent. Also I mis spoke about using hardy baker...Im using 1/2 usg durock nextgen.

Per the Jotul doc I need 72" for unprotected walls for the height. I have that before the start of the arch...am I missing something?

I appreciate the help btw I do want this done right.

 

[akcooper9]

BG I think we are speaking different terms or I'm at least not saying the right things or giving enough information. What you see currently in the pictures is my finished dry walled alcove (unprotected).

Per the Jotul install guides as the alcove sits now, the stove would be a NO go. BUT with protected walls (air gap, durock and stone) Im a GO.

I did some more measurements and with protected walls, Im 12 inches from combustibles on the rear...min is 8, 11 3/4 inches from combustibles on the side...min is 6. Height wise I have 72 inches before any protection This will be protected as well. etc

All of which are over the minimum of the required protected clearances. Are we in agreement or am I still missing something?

Thanks again

 

[M1sterM]

I may be wrong, but I also think that for the clearances you have, you need a ventilated (air-gap) space between the stone/backer board and the gypsum attached to the studs. I'm not sure about the ceiling, though, since it does look like you're at the 72 inches.

 

[begreen]

Durock NexGen has a higher insulation value than hardibacker, but by itself does not warrant a clearance reduction. It takes having that ventilated airspace as shown on the Jotul top view diagram to fully comply for the clearance reduction. I think you can proceed. Remember once the wall shield is up, the clearances are still measured to the nearest combustible which will be the studs. But you will need to create a new cement board wall on 1" spacers to apply the stone veneer. These side and back walls will need to be open at the bottom by at least an inch and open at the top so that air can easily convect behind the wall shield. This will keep the combustibles cool. For spacers you can cut 3" x sheet length strips, then screw them, doubled up, on the studs like firing strips. Then screw the new wall onto them with long drywall screws. You can carry the stone veneer down to the floor at the stud points as long as each cavity between is adequately open.

I wasn't sure whether the arch reduced clearances at the low points below 72". It's hard to tell from the visuals. Normally an alcove ceiling is all one plane so this is literally bending the rules a bit. I would guess that if at all points above the stove are at 72" from the floor it would be ok. Will ceiling also be surfaced with cement board?

There are several examples of alcove installs and NFPA 211 wall construction threads here if you search this forum. Feel free to ask questions, we're here to help you with a safe installation.

 

[akcooper9]

I believe we are on the same page...in my mind, here is my plan for the sides and back wall of the alcove....The plan is on the alcove sides and back wall is to space 1" from the dry wall with spacers and then add the durock for the stone.

Question since I have a 10" raised hearth can I vent the bottom from under the hearth and then up above the alcove where I have 3ft of dead space?

For the top of the alcove I was going to put double durock with not air gab as Im already in the clear.

Last question: On the front of the alcove do I need to durock that and if so, does it need an air gap as well?

 

[begreen]

The bottom will need a room intake for fresh air in. As long as the bottom of the side and back walls has a vent (not just closed off in the base) so that air can freely convect behind the wall it should be ok. Or you could continue the cement board down to the hearth at the studs, say 6" wide then veneer those feet with stone, but leave vent gaps between the firring strips.

I think the last answer is not needed but I'm not sure where on the front of the alcove is being referred to.

 

[akcooper9]

I think the last answer is not needed but I'm not sure where on the front of the alcove is being referred to.

I was talking about this area

 

[M1sterM]

That's a tough call...but I imagine the "official" answer would be that if it's within 16" then it needs shielding. I assume the stove will stick out a little in front of the alcove, or will it be fully recessed? If fully recessed, then the "front" would be shielded by the side walls. But if it's sticking out a few inches in front of the alcove, the heat radiates 180 degrees from the metal surfaces, so the front walls would then also need to be shielded by the double layer/air gap system.

Is the entire front face of the alcove going to be stone?

 

[akcooper9]

Is the entire front face of the alcove going to be stone?

Yes sir. And btw, the stove will be half in the alcove half out

 

[begreen]

I would say there is no heat shielding is needed on the front face. It can be just cement board and stone veneer. The stove's cast iron jacket greatly reduces side heat radiation.

Also note that the sides of the wall shield can be sealed so that you have nicely finished corners. It's only the top and bottom that need to be open for ventilation.

 

[M1sterM]

I would say there is no heat shielding is needed on the front face. It can be just cement board and stone veneer. The stove's cast iron jacket greatly reduces side heat radiation.

So is the shielding in the alcove purely a function of the heat radiating from the chimney? If so, why not just use insulated pipe all the way down to the stove, and forget the wall shielding altogether? Again, I'm not an expert, so am curious purely from an academic perspective... e.g. why shield the side walls inside the alcove, but not any other wall/combustible within 16"?

AK, the reason I asked is if the entire face was going to be veneered, then that would simplify ventilating the front, as well, should you deem it necessary (not saying you should).

 

[begreen]

It's an interesting question. For sure it's not just for the chimney. It's also for heat radiated from the stove as tested by the mfg.. An alcove traps heat which raises the ambient air temp around the stove significantly. The top of the stove and front door will be the hottest for the Rangeley. Note that this is just my opinion, but I see that Jotul has said nothing about the face in their documentation and I can't recall reading this concern in any other docs. Also, the Rangley clearances appear to be honored as soon as the stove front is in front of the alcove. But to be sure it wouldn't hurt to check with Jotul.

 

[akcooper9]

Great conversation guys. Thanks for all the feed back. Made a little progress with the heat shield last night

Before winding down for the night I turned all the lights off but the one above the stove...pic doesnt do it justice but it will make for a nice evening by the fire

 

[akcooper9]

I finished the alcove and its now ready for the support box and stone! Should be done with both of those by Friday with a stove set on Monday.

 

[begreen]

Where is the wall shield ventilation?

 

[akcooper9]

Where is the wall shield ventilation?

1in gap at the bottom of the wall and 1in gap at the top. you just cant see it. I've got vents for the heart which you cant see in the photo that will supply all the vented walls with all the air they will ever need!

Rest assured, the vents/air gaps are there. I just went with a hidden approach

 

[begreen]

You're right I can't see them. What about the back and right side walls?

 

[akcooper9]

You're right I can't see them. What about the back and right side walls?

vent/air gaps their as well. everything vents from under the heart and then up above to the cavities above the alcove arch.

I guess you wanted more pictures?!

 

[Dakotas Dad]

I would document all that you can, definitely have pictures of everything that is needed to make the stove installation meet either code OR the manufacturers requirements. Heaven forbid there be a problem in the future, but I think it would be every good to be able to show that you did something, rather than say that you did..