Anyone planning on buying a pre-2020 wood stove in 2020?

rwh63

New Member
Nov 12, 2019
59
MA
My understanding, speaking to several dealers in the Fall, was that they were not ordering any more pre-2020 stoves unless pre-purchased by a customer, and they all had a variety of inventory of stoves that went back several models on some brands. I was told that they could not sell them after May 2020, and will need to trash unsold inventory. So, is anyone waiting to buy a pre-2020 in Spring of 2020 for next to nothing (or go dumpster diving!)?
 

webby3650

Master of Fire
Sep 2, 2008
10,932
Indiana
It’s possible to find a deal. We sold all of our display stoves in just a few months, 33 stoves I think? You won’t find dumpster deals, they well be destroyed at the scrap yard, if they go there.
 

rosem

Member
Aug 27, 2019
109
Northern Michigan
I really want a Jotul F 55, but none of the local dealers have one in stock. Jotul is doing one more batch but they want $2,800 for them. That seems like a lot for what others have paid for them. I found a dealer in Pennsylvania who is selling one for $2,000 but it's not really cost effective to drive that far to get it.

Does Jotul plan on having a 2020 replacement for the F 55?
 

peakbagger

Minister of Fire
Jul 11, 2008
5,441
Northern NH
I expect some stoves will just get shipped offshore or never imported. Its the domestic manufacturers that had to be more careful to balance their inventory.
 

rwh63

New Member
Nov 12, 2019
59
MA
it's possible the dumpster comment by the dealer was exaggeration, but i suggested charity/tax write-off to them and they said even that is not allowed. leftovers will need to be "destroyed". i imagine they will do anything to make back something before that deadline. i also don't know if the stoves can be parted out. wouldn't make sense to trash all of those new parts.

anyway, i will start checking around in March to see who has what remaining.
 

peakbagger

Minister of Fire
Jul 11, 2008
5,441
Northern NH
Some unscrupulous firms would just fill warehouses with in theory cheaper older designs and then flood the market with them after the date. That would hurt all the other firms that followed the rules. There has been plenty of warning on the standards implementation date.
 

vwmike

Feeling the Heat
Oct 7, 2013
301
Chilliwack, BC, Can.
Out here in the west I’m close to Pacific Energy, Blaze king, and Regency. Most where offering 10-20%off this fall to clear out the old stock. The only good deal I saw was on a Regency 5100 .
 

CreosoteCowboy

New Member
Jun 1, 2019
52
MN
I bought a Jotul F400 a month or so ago from a local dealer. I prepaid full list for them to order it.

Prior to doing it, I talked to several folks at Jotul who said they're winding down Castine production, and there isn't a 2020 compliant version in the works or even on the schedule. They said I should expect to wait at least a few years to see a replacement, if it ever comes back at all.

Now, I realize that could be a talking point to sell old inventory before they reveal a top-secret new version in May 2020, but I doubt it. The tone I heard on the phone from multiple people indicated that their line is going to be slim for the next few years.

There might be a handful of deals out there this spring, but I suspect they'll be on some oddball domestic models that have been sitting on the shelf for years for good reason.

With the decline in wood stove sales nationally over the past decade, I imagine there's a pretty strong incentive for companies to concentrate their efforts on gas or pellet stoves instead of wood.
 
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bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
21,908
central pa
I dont understand why they have to put such a hardship on businesses. Why dont they let them quit making pre 2020 stoves but sell all their inventory instead of scrapping them parting or whatever.
There has been plenty of warning if a company is not prepared for this when the changes were announced in 2015 it is their own fault.
 
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bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
21,908
central pa
Out here in the west I’m close to Pacific Energy, Blaze king, and Regency. Most where offering 10-20%off this fall to clear out the old stock. The only good deal I saw was on a Regency 5100 .
That's funny because that stove didn't need any changes to meet 2020. They simply relabeled the new ones 5200s after retesting
 
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bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
21,908
central pa
I bought a Jotul F400 a month or so ago from a local dealer. I prepaid full list for them to order it.

Prior to doing it, I talked to several folks at Jotul who said they're winding down Castine production, and there isn't a 2020 compliant version in the works or even on the schedule. They said I should expect to wait at least a few years to see a replacement, if it ever comes back at all.

Now, I realize that could be a talking point to sell old inventory before they reveal a top-secret new version in May 2020, but I doubt it. The tone I heard on the phone from multiple people indicated that their line is going to be slim for the next few years.

There might be a handful of deals out there this spring, but I suspect they'll be on some oddball domestic models that have been sitting on the shelf for years for good reason.

With the decline in wood stove sales nationally over the past decade, I imagine there's a pretty strong incentive for companies to concentrate their efforts on gas or pellet stoves instead of wood.
Where did you hear there is a decline in wood stove sales? Yes it is down from the high point in the late 70s early 80s but it has been growing slowly for a number of years now
 
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webby3650

Master of Fire
Sep 2, 2008
10,932
Indiana
Some unscrupulous firms would just fill warehouses with in theory cheaper older designs and then flood the market with them after the date. That would hurt all the other firms that followed the rules. There has been plenty of warning on the standards implementation date.
Any store caught doing this will be subject to steep fines and will likely close their doors. No respectable business would get caught up in this.
While there has been plenty of warning, it’s still really difficult on many dealers. We were fortunate because we move a lot of stoves. We had around 33 displays and probably 12-15 in the warehouse and moved almost all of them. There’s a lot of dealers out there that hold a lot of inventory. It’s partly because of the demands from manufactures, to get decent pricing, they require you to make major purchases and they really put the pressure on dealers.

So we basically have 6-8 stoves that are 2020 for people to see at this point, it has really slowed stove sales way down for us. People are uncertain about the new stoves and they sure aren’t willing to pay for something they can’t see on display. In all honesty, we are concerned with selling the new unproven designs. Lopi has several and of course Blaze King, all the others we carry are new designs.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
21,908
central pa
Any store caught doing this will be subject to steep fines and will likely close their doors. No respectable business would get caught up in this.
While there has been plenty of warning, it’s still really difficult on many dealers. We were fortunate because we move a lot of stoves. We had around 33 displays and probably 12-15 in the warehouse and moved almost all of them. There’s a lot of dealers out there that hold a lot of inventory. It’s partly because of the demands from manufactures, to get decent pricing, they require you to make major purchases and they really put the pressure on dealers.

So we basically have 6-8 stoves that are 2020 for people to see at this point, it has really slowed stove sales way down for us. People are uncertain about the new stoves and they sure aren’t willing to pay for something they can’t see on display. In all honesty, we are concerned with selling the new unproven designs. Lopi has several and of course Blaze King, all the others we carry are new designs.
He was referencing the idea posted by grizzer that companies should just be able to sell old stock with no cut off.

I agree it will be hard on retailers. But many people are placing blame in the wrong place. The blame lies with those manufacturers who dispute plenty of warning have waited until the last minute to introduce their new stoves.
 
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webby3650

Master of Fire
Sep 2, 2008
10,932
Indiana
He was referencing the idea posted by grizzer that companies should just be able to sell old stock with no cut off.

I agree it will be hard on retailers. But many people are placing blame in the wrong place. The blame lies with those manufacturers who dispute plenty of warning have waited until the last minute to introduce their new stoves.
I’ve seen several posts that make it seem as if everyone has had plenty of warning. Everyone knew it was a possibility, business must continue though. It’s not easy..
Like you said, some have waited to the last minute, or possibly they had a lot of trouble getting a stove to pass? Jotul is a big seller for us, now they only have the Oslo and the 602 that are approved. That’s a big hit for us. The castine was our biggest seller I’d say.
 

Grizzerbear

Minister of Fire
Feb 12, 2019
589
SW Missoura
He was referencing the idea posted by grizzer that companies should just be able to sell old stock with no cut off.
Sorry i wasnt clear i guess. Im not sticking up for the manufacturers. More for the Mr. Joe Hardware, small retailers etc..... being able to sell off their stock. I agree that they have had plenty notice tho for sure. Onward and upward in the name of progress i hope.
 

webby3650

Master of Fire
Sep 2, 2008
10,932
Indiana
Sorry i wasnt clear i guess. Im not sticking up for the manufacturers. More for the Mr. Joe Hardware, small retailers etc..... being able to sell off their stock. I agree that they have had plenty notice tho for sure. Onward and upward in the name of progress i hope.
Hardware and small retailers won’t have it too hard. Bigger dealerships that service and sell will though. Some sell and service to several larger towns in a large area and require a large inventory to make it all happen. We’ve tightened up lately but pretty much install in the lower half of Indiana. Another big issue is the cost increase with the 2020 stoves. It’s looking like about a $600 increase in most models so far... that hurts too.
 
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EatenByLimestone

Minister of Fire
Jul 12, 2006
7,343
Schenectady, NY
While there has been plenty of warning, it’s still really difficult on many dealers. We were fortunate because we move a lot of stoves. We had around 33 displays and probably 12-15 in the warehouse and moved almost all of them. There’s a lot of dealers out there that hold a lot of inventory. It’s partly because of the demands from manufactures, to get decent pricing, they require you to make major purchases and they really put the pressure on dealers.

It sounds like they only want to deal with distributors that would resell to multiple dealers.
 

vwmike

Feeling the Heat
Oct 7, 2013
301
Chilliwack, BC, Can.
That's funny because that stove didn't need any changes to meet 2020. They simply relabeled the new ones 5200s after retesting
that is funny didn’t realize that! To be fair it was the most expensive stove in the store and I’m pretty sure the same one had been sitting there for the last few years....
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
21,908
central pa
that is funny didn’t realize that! To be fair it was the most expensive stove in the store and I’m pretty sure the same one had been sitting there for the last few years....
Well yes it was probably their display model. And even though there were no changes made they still need to have the 5200 not the 5100
 

Zerotonine

New Member
Jun 26, 2019
9
Minnesota
It seems the timing to buy an insert could not have been less-favorable.

Bought a house, then took the last year to think over and budget for an insert purchase. Narrowed it to a Hearthstone Clydesdale, it's perfect for my application, but sadly not 2020-compliant.

Either it's busy season, or a $300 discount from MSRP really knocked loose a lot of sales (well, 2 in 4 weeks) because now my local is stocked-out. Regional sales rep says he can get one from the next state over, but (1) no discount (2) it's a 4yo floor model and (3) they want me to pay freight on it. No thank you.

Now the "new and improved" 2020 models will hit, and there will be buying at discount for a while.

So it appears my best option is to keep cash on hand for the May 31 countdown. I'm not holding my breath on any discounted models.

I think i'll watch craigslist for a pre-2020 model. I'm sure not paying MSRP for anything less than what I want.

Whatever is left on 5/31 is sure to be slim pickings, where i live.
 

Zerotonine

New Member
Jun 26, 2019
9
Minnesota
My understanding, speaking to several dealers in the Fall, was that they were not ordering any more pre-2020 stoves unless pre-purchased by a customer, and they all had a variety of inventory of stoves that went back several models on some brands. I was told that they could not sell them after May 2020, and will need to trash unsold inventory. So, is anyone waiting to buy a pre-2020 in Spring of 2020 for next to nothing (or go dumpster diving!)?
My understanding of the rule is the retailers cannot sell non-2020 units after 12/31. Retailers have until 5/31 to sell non-2020 stock.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
83,685
South Puget Sound, WA
My understanding of the rule is the retailers cannot sell non-2020 units after 12/31.
Not so, some 2020 compliant stoves have been selling for a good part of 2019.