Anyone with a Piazzetta Sabrina ?

NorthoftheQuabbin Posted By NorthoftheQuabbin, Jan 29, 2015 at 10:56 PM

  1. NorthoftheQuabbin

    NorthoftheQuabbin
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    I agree there's clearly and air/fuel problem, but I don't know how to correct the situation any more than I have.

    Maybe I'm over estimating my fuel usage, but there's no way I can get 24 hours out of a bag of pellets.
     
  2. NorthoftheQuabbin

    NorthoftheQuabbin
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    I've always run the stove on manual - adjusting the temperature accordingly.

    Over the last few weeks, I've had both the stove shop and the distributor here trying to rectify the problem.

    Basically, I've been told that I have to live with these deficiencies, or remove the stove.
     
  3. NorthoftheQuabbin

    NorthoftheQuabbin
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    I have tentative plans to speak with someone at Piazzetta's North American headquarters, who's willing to help me get the stove under control.

    Boy, this is turning into a case of who killed JR ?!
     
  4. NorthoftheQuabbin

    NorthoftheQuabbin
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    Are ready for this ?

    BTW, my apologies to the other members who have already heard this rant.

    The first stove was installed in the middle of March 2014. After that one failed to perform properly during the first month and a half or so, they decided to replace it with another one. However, given the fact that is was so late in the season, I barely got around to using it.

    Jumping ahead to the onset of this winter, the stove was put to full use in November, wherein it quickly began exhibiting all of the same problems as the first one.

    As a result, the stove shop decided to come out and re-vent it differently, which yielded little to no difference. From there, the distributor got involved, and came out to my home to asses the situation as well. .

    The long and short of it is, the stove people basically said that there are challenges with every stove application, and if I wanted to keep the Piazzetta, I had to learn to live with its deficiencies.

    In any case, I've more than laced up my boots to kick some arse in their situation. Both the stove shop and the distributor are likely throwing darts at my picture as we speak.

    Frankly, I don't think either one of them no sh*t about their product, and that's why I decided to join this forum, and try to find answers to the problem before I drag this thing to the curb and tell then to come and get it once and for all. .
     
  5. NorthoftheQuabbin

    NorthoftheQuabbin
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    I spent considerable time on the phone with a forum member, who's also a Piazzetta dealer, troubleshooting my stove's problems.

    In another attempt to take "Hamburger Hill", I spent hours today cleaning the stove, starting with all of the internals - straight out the vent and up the pipe to the vent cap.

    The stove was much dirtier than I expected, since I clean it thoroughly once a week, and the venting was quite dirty as well.

    Let's see what this yields.
     
    Pascal_Maertens likes this.
  6. Pascal_Maertens

    Pascal_Maertens
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    Hand guest what? I think we are going to get another satisfied Piazzetta customer whit in a week or so max. I just love doing this; proving to all of these stove dealer that 95% of the time the problem is not the stove but just the kind of "/$%?&* service they are not giving must take too much of their precious time.


    Hey my name is Pascal Maertens I’m a Piazzetta consultant for the region of Quebec in Canada


    I do sale, install and most important also adjust Piazzetta Pellets stove. If you are having problem with your dealer trouble shooting your stove, you got to know me. And by the way, I also own one and yes at first, I had my share of problem too.
     
  7. NorthoftheQuabbin

    NorthoftheQuabbin
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    At the risk of coming across as an ad endorsement, Pascal proved to be a tremendous resource for me with regard to getting my Piazzetta stove under control.

    Not only has the last 24 hours been the best that I've seen it perform, but thanks to Pascal, I now have a greater understanding as to how it needs to operate.
     
  8. CleanFire

    CleanFire
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    Glad to read you have (edit: professional) dealer help w/ your stove - hope it works out well for you.
     
  9. NorthoftheQuabbin

    NorthoftheQuabbin
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    For starters, there was far more ash build up in the venting and cap than anyone would have imagined. Going through all of it, and thoroughly cleaning it, made a huge difference.

    Given the fact that the new venting has only been in place for about a month and a half or so, I never would have guessed that so much build up could have occurred. But, then again, my stove has been performing inefficiently for weeks.

    Also, coming to understand the right balance of feed rate and airflow, and how certain variables impact it, has been a tremendous help for me in reconfiguring my stove's parameters.

    But, ultimately being able to Skype with an expert like Pascal, and the opportunity for him to see and hear my concerns firsthand, was invaluable.
     
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  10. Pascal_Maertens

    Pascal_Maertens
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    Mar 25, 2014
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    First I would like to mention that here in Quebec we never hook up the OAK unless there is a mobile home involved and believe me when I read people saying that the reson for X problem is du that the OAK is not hook properly well…hum..

    Buy the way I think that in the states you have to hook an AOK by law, am I wrong please let me know.

    Back to this customer issue; when we get a lazy flame that produce a lot of soot first question you have to ask is how many bags have you burned? If you have a 3’’ chimney after 50 to 60 you need to clean it, with a 4’’ chimney around 100 bags only that’s the base. When I say cleaning, I mean the complete air flow from OAK to baffle to chimney cap. Only then you will start questioning if you need to adjust

    Then for those who knows how to go in the menu parameter ( and understand what they’re doing ) you have to think of;

    the triangle of fire and balance fuel and air; more you put fuel ( p5 to p10 ) more you need air ( p16 to p22 ) thats all there was for this particular issue thank you and good nigth if you have any more question i'll be more then glade to answer you.

    regards to all of you.
     
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  11. Drew65

    Drew65
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    The fuel rate wasn't as bad as you think. You asked how long on LOW power (p1) he must not have read that and told you he was running at the "lowest feed rate" but he's was running on P5 the highest btu setting and at that a bag will burn in 8 hours
     
  12. Pascal_Maertens

    Pascal_Maertens
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    Well first; it's a source of cold air coming in the house. Second; just because a European stove have that difference whit most American stove, that the combustion fan is totally adjustable to counter the excess or lack of air due to the insolation or air tightness of the house. If you want to see how far the Europeans are ahead of us, just go and look for pellet silos, auto feeders etc… can’t even get a picture of it on Google Canadian Distributor

    I’ve said ‘’ we are going to get another satisfied Piazzetta customer whit in a week or so max’’. Even do the customer seems to be very satisfied; I know that there is still fine tunings to do. The consummation was very Hi yes. First I reduce the RPM to 2350 it was at 2800 on P5 and caused the pellets to over burn plus the path of air from the stove to the chimney cap to evacuate this air was blocked by the abnormal amount of ash ‘’never clean since November’’ a responsible dealer would of tell him that will saling the unit, no one told him how to, and when to! They are so afraid to louse the customer $$$ will talking about cleaning adjusting etc… when I will be finish, even If the customer doubt about it, he will be running is stove at P3 just like the rest of my customer do, an then just control the temp with the thermostat. Will get there lol… am I over confident, NO I simply know it’s possible.
     
  13. Pascal_Maertens

    Pascal_Maertens
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    Mar 25, 2014
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    I’m talking only and always about Piazzetta product my understanding is a 2'' hole in the wall for the OAK plus a 3'' hole for chimney when the stove reach it's temp and run off you end up with 2 cold pipe in the house? A house is not air tight so there is no need to make more holes in the house and if I was so wrong about this, why don’t I get more calls, unstated of satisfied customer’s recommending Piazzetta to their neighbour and friends? Of course if I go out and install an USSC or other similar product I will put an OAK cause you can’t adjust the air that is push out.



    did I mention somewhere that it was problematic to install an OAK !?? Every time I give formations or go to formation; some information are exchange between technicians about Piazzetta products and every time it get to OAK issue they all agree on one thing, they rarely install any with a Piazzetta an when they do install one 90% of the time it has nothing to do with the customers need, house or stove but it’s the boss decision $$$$. And by the way I do carry OAK cause I also sale USSC and others pellets stoves and furnace.



    hey, If you can tell me what stove do you have that has a variable combustion fan I will Apologise for this particular product for. I’m not a distributor and the stove that are presented to me as North American ones they all have a mechanical trap that most of the time is not even accessible without opening the side walls. Please do so, show me a PDF manual and I will. The Drolet ( SBI ) company in Quebec, have an ECO65 the latest model has also a combustion fan that is adjustable but they won’t give any information on it cause they also sale OAK. When you need to adjust them they just say ‘’ put an OAK it going to do the same job and you will make more money’’ and the customer as to pay more, You are disrespectful of other people opinions. My credibility I Hearn it; one customer at a time, with honesty and priority in customer satisfaction, and this sometime irate people that are always thinking $$$ cause they can’t follow or don’t understand why are we doing things differently. It’s called evolution, in the pellets stove industry the European have few years in advance


    No doubt you seem to me like a good dealer or else why would you be her helping people. We might have divergent opinion on how things should be done; the important one is the result, customer’s satisfaction.




    Sorry sorry monsieur, please ask more question before you go and … yes I’m making a big story about the Piazzetta stove for this you can kill me, I confess. But Piazzetta have more than one model, they all have 5 Power level and if you sale the correct size stove for the correct size house and also the customer habits; is he more 20c or 26c it will happened that most of the time you’ll end up running your stove at P3 if you sold the good one. It is so much easier for the customer to remember; if it’s cold increase if it’s hot decrease the thermostat. Hey this is in general and for the fuel type no problem with a Piazzetta they can burn just any kind of pellet from soft to hard but only when they are set properly in general adding 5 pascal to all the default setting for the Quebec region. Depends also what version of firmware you are using.


    Hey, why don’t you try one then you’ll talk like me
     
  14. Pascal_Maertens

    Pascal_Maertens
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    lol.. so as I can see you are only bitching a product and a technology that you just don’t no noting of, your pdf manual is just how to hook up a OAK on a cheap stove (Cheap Heat Solution) lol... I’m not talking going Cheap I’m talking Piazzetta you are being stubborn if you want to talk cheap stuff you should open a post on this cause if I recall this post is called Anyone with a Piazzetta Sabrina ? So how can you just try to help if you don’t even want to know how this stove is running when I give formation to old guys like you whitch are stuck in the old age technology, an then they are abble to install a Piazzetta.
     
  15. Pascal_Maertens

    Pascal_Maertens
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    World.gif
    I think they have a very good coverage, well where it's needed.
     
  16. NorthoftheQuabbin

    NorthoftheQuabbin
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    Since I started this thread, I feel the need to intervene before things turn into anymore of a brouhaha here.

    I am extremely grateful for those who took the time to participate and help me in my frustration, starting with chKen and Smokey the Bear, leading up to chickenman and Pascal, who was most gracious in spending time over Skype helping me with my stove.

    For the record, the Piazzetta is a beautifully designed stove, but like many high brow items, it's a bit persnickety and needs a little extra care and know-how. Know that I have a better understanding of what it needs to work properly, which may be the case for a lot of other brands, it seems to be working well. Again, I wouldn't have been able to reach this point without the help of this forum.

    As for Piazzetta as a company, its affiliate here in the USA and the stove shop that sold it to me and installed it, save for a couple of individuals, they couldn't manage an f'in out house.

    In any case, what I think Pascal is trying to say, in view of the fact that Piazzetta is manufactured in Italy, and undoubtedly developed and tested in that region, they may not be as well suited for other climates such as North America and other parts of the world - right out of the box. And, therefore, they need a bit of tweaking in order to adapt to our conditions. I liken it to a high performance European car first trying to adapt to the driving conditions in the USA.

    In any event case, I tend to agree with that parallel, since that's how my stove behaved from the get go.

    The goal here is to help out newbies like myself, and stay in joyous pellet pulchritude !
     
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  17. Pascal_Maertens

    Pascal_Maertens
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    I’m trying to be as professional as I can be, so tell me.. in real world have you seen one? When have you tried one? How did you compare. I just think that you are making your mind on Piazzetta by the comment customers leave on this forum. If we stay here that’s all we are going to ear is unsatisfied customer, and this is going true this entire forum, from just any brand of stove. This is why Forums exist.


    finally we agree on something, we have qualified personal and I have holidays just like everybody.




    no need to, the company dose all that and more, are rep was telling us all that and even, look like they all have the same speech. Sorry but this is not new for me I ear dose kind of speech all the time they all have the best product in the world.


    I don’t grow food to burn it, I eat food and I’m against all mono culture that is destroying the planet, have you ever herd of; beef effect or Monsanto. In my region the pellets are produce from recycling wood from the wood industry.


    same situation her but who am I to say that my customer don’t have the money, I offer them the choice they decide whether they want cheap stuff, expensive stuff or just luxurious stuff I offer the service.


    how many do you have ?




    http://www.piazzetta.com/products/sy/p963/

    ArrayEfficiency : 91.7 %
    EPA Emissions : 1.97 grams/hour <<<<<<<<<< what is your emissions and what model give me some fact, documents !
    Room heating capacity (min-max) : 700 - 2600 sq ft.
    BTU output (min-max) : 13,192 – 47,955
    Hopper Capacity : 66 lbs
    Burn rate (min-max) : 1.60 – 5.80 lbs/hr
    Power adjustable (positions) : 5
    Exhaust Vent Height/Location : 7.28 in
    Dimensions WxDxH : 22.5 x 21 x 46 in
    Total weight : 434 lbs
    Multifuoco System : dual blower
    Manufactured/mobile home approved<<<<<<< there is an OAK adaptor
     
  18. NorthoftheQuabbin

    NorthoftheQuabbin
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    I have an OAK in place :)
     
  19. Pascal_Maertens

    Pascal_Maertens
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    Mar 25, 2014
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    Seriously, a friend of mine as the same stove and did install an OAK and we found no significant difference. probaly not installed properly you will say but anyway in my case I have none an dont need one my stove is realy good like this.
     
  20. NorthoftheQuabbin

    NorthoftheQuabbin
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    UPDATE

    The stove is still running great !

    There, now I've gone ahead and jinxed myself :)
     
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  21. NorthoftheQuabbin

    NorthoftheQuabbin
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    First and foremost, knowing how and when to adjust the stove's parameters, has been the most significant improvement. But, frequent, periodic cleaning is also extremely important too.

    And, when I say cleaning, I'm referring to near disassembly of the stove and all of its venting.

    For whatever reason, the Sabrina requires far more routine cleaning than the Monia.
     
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  22. Pascal_Maertens

    Pascal_Maertens
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    theres no reason for the Sabrina not to act like the Monia. If since we have made those changes, there is still much dust to clean out of the venting, you may want to lower the RPM of the exhaust fan; the more RPM also means, more ash going up in baffle air path and in the chimney restricting the air flow. Remember the pellets should only wobble a bit. Besides auto cleaning, you should not see pellets going over the combustion grate and it’s not like there all wobbling only a few of them. I would say lower by 50 RPM at the time and be aware not to go to low remember that black soot we do not want that.


    Good luck
     
  23. NorthoftheQuabbin

    NorthoftheQuabbin
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    I've noticed since I've been able adjust the combustion and feed rates, there's been far less build up in ash in both the stove and venting.
    I clean the fire pot and ashtray every 2 or 3 days, but now that the stove is running properly, I don't feel the need to pull off the back plate or open up the combustion fan compartment for cleaning for 10 days or so.
    As far as the external venting is concerned, this time around there was hardly any ash build-up in the elbow or stack.
     
  24. NorthoftheQuabbin

    NorthoftheQuabbin
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    The Sabrina is getting close to the performance of the Monia :) I only say that it requires more attention, because it's in use 80% to 90% more than the Monia is.
     
  25. Pascal_Maertens

    Pascal_Maertens
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    Mar 25, 2014
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    I do also talk about days sometime but it’s a matter of pounds how many bags or pound per day are you using? Then you know that you can also adjust the pellets feed at all off your power level from .05 sec. to 12 sec. you can also play with it that’s what I call fine tuning

    And remember; To run a stove very hi, will give you more heath faster, burn xx of pellets, get the thermostat to shut down the stove more often ( the igniter will need to be replace on a shorter period of time ) and once the stove gets cold it takes more time and more pellets just to start that blower again ( calculate the time it takes you’ll be surprise ) and in some cases the temperature will not even have time to raise in the rooms that are far away from the stove.

    What I suggest is to make 3 different adjustments from p3 p4 p5 and remember that p1 and p2 have no self-cleaning

    Then once you will be all set, then running the stove at a lower level, say p3 for example. On a regular winter day it will give time to raise the temperature in the rooms that are far away from the stove, run on a longer period without shutting down on the end it also take less pellets.

    (( on energy saver, Once the thermostat detect that it as reach the proper temperature, the stove shuts down and gets cold then, when the thermostat gets a new demand, it takes almost 30 min before the convection blower starts and 40 min before it give proper heath this is where pellets fly’s out giving no heath. This is why in some cases when the exterior temperature drop considerably I’ll suggest not to run the energy saving mode it will run ‘’Hi Low’’ in a very well insulated house this will probably make less difference. ))

    And remember if you get lost in there just contact me again, it will be my pleasure to help.

    regards
     

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