Are inserts safer?

[NWA_PeaRidge_Homestead]

Hello all.

We got an insert installed in the fireplace. It has a liner. I was wondering if, in general, inserts are safer than regular wood stoves, especially when it comes to chimney fires burning the house down. I could be wrong, but I suspect that for the house to burn down with an insert, the chimney fire would have to burn though the liner, then the chimney bricks, and then access the wood in the attic. A normal wood stove could have the pipe glowing red and light the house more rapidly.

I don't plan on letting creosote build-up, but if it happens is the insert a bit safer?

 

[weatherguy]

If not installed correctly they both can be a problem, sounds like you have yours installed correctly, just burn seasoned wood and clean it at least once a year and you'll be fine.

 

[bholler]

Hello all.

We got an insert installed in the fireplace. It has a liner. I was wondering if, in general, inserts are safer than regular wood stoves, especially when it comes to chimney fires burning the house down. I could be wrong, but I suspect that for the house to burn down with an insert, the chimney fire would have to burn though the liner, then the chimney bricks, and then access the wood in the attic. A normal wood stove could have the pipe glowing red and light the house more rapidly.

I don't plan on letting creosote build-up, but if it happens is the insert a bit safer?

Structure fires from chimneys are almost never from burn through. It's almost always from heat transfer through materials which is why insulation or clearances from the masonry are so important.

And occasionally a roof can be ignited by sparks coming out the top of the chimney

 

[stoveliker]

I don't think there is a difference in safety risk; chimney requirements for inserts (which are stoves, just put in a masonry fireplace) and stoves are the same. That is why clearance requirements for the pipe are the same.

There is of course stove pipe exposed in freestanding stoves. But honoring clearances there makes it as safe imo. (moreover, I actually like to be able to see the first, hottest (!) part of the pipe, rather than having it hidden in a chimney - but that is all not relevant as when it's installed properly I should not need to see it).

If you really want to know, ask your insurance company. They handle in big numbers and should be able to tell you which type has more claims... And they have no agenda one way or the other - just their bottom line.

 

[BrianVA]

Hello all.

We got an insert installed in the fireplace. It has a liner. I was wondering if, in general, inserts are safer than regular wood stoves, especially when it comes to chimney fires burning the house down. I could be wrong, but I suspect that for the house to burn down with an insert, the chimney fire would have to burn though the liner, then the chimney bricks, and then access the wood in the attic. A normal wood stove could have the pipe glowing red and light the house more rapidly.

I don't plan on letting creosote build-up, but if it happens is the insert a bit safer?

That seems logical. But if the fire is coming out the top of the chimney it seems like it would set the roof on fire equally fast whether its an insert with SS liner in masonry chimney, or the all metal flue pipe of a traditional wood stove. Just speculating, I have no real knowledge.

 

[bholler]

That seems logical. But if the fire is coming out the top of the chimney it seems like it would set the roof on fire equally fast whether its an insert with SS liner in masonry chimney, or the all metal flue pipe of a traditional wood stove. Just speculating, I have no real knowledge.

That is very rarely the cause of structure fires developing from chimney fires.

 

[jalmondale]

I think it's pretty common for wood stoves to vent through a lined old fireplace chimney (what mine does) or be a fully exterior pipe (I see these a lot in my neighborhood). So this seems like less an insert vs. stove question and more of a chimney type question (although I would guess that any properly installed chimney is safe).

 

[firefighterjake]

Anecotal I know . . . but most wood stove related structure fires I have seen have been caused by (in order) a) improper disposal of ashes (i.e. disposing ash/coals in cardboard box, dumping on dry grass, etc.), b) improper flue set up (i.e. older chimney without lining, combustible framing too close to chimney, etc.) and c) improper set up of the stove itself (i.e. not large enough hearth.)

Again . . . only anecdotal experience. Like others I would hazard a guess an insert or a free standing wood stove is neither more or less safe than the other when properly installed and maintained.

 

[batsoff]

Along the same lines... a question for the forum...

What generates more "heat" in a fireplace... an open fire, or an insert?

I've been running some fires in an open fireplace in my main sitting room, but I'm getting a lot of heat "bleeding through" the adjacent wall of bedroom #1.

I wanted to put an insert into this location (Osburn 3500)... but the amount of heat coming through the bedroom wall is leading me to believe that this might not be possible.

Plan attached, not to scale, but you'll get the idea.

Original Thread:

Help with Sizing Insert

Hello Hearth.com... Appreciate you taking time to review my post! I'm looking to install a new fireplace insert in my Kitchen / Sitting Room area. This insert will be located in the center of my main floor, and I'm trying to determine where I'll get usable heat as my house does have a more...

www.hearth.com

Thoughts welcome... here or in the original thread.

Best...
-batsoff

 

[stoveliker]

The heat through the wall may be less with an insert (I don't know, but I suspect that). But the total heat in your home will be far more. This is because the fireplace uses a lot more air that it sends up the chimney - and all this air has to be replenished by leaking in thru the outer shell of your home. And that's cold air.

 

[batsoff]

Thanks stoveliker...

Right now my focus is on trying to determine if the current fireplace is safe to move forward with, not really sure how to do that without punching holes in walls and trying to figure out how it was constructed.

I'm gonna circle back with the company that I'm working with on the insert, given the amount of heat bleading through the "back of the fireplace" into the bedroom wall... I don't feel comfortable burning anything in the current fireplace.

This is a relatively new house for me... still learning about all of its "features."

 

[spudman99]

Yes an insert is safer than a traditional fireplace in all regards. The chances of a hot ember flying out are nil. An insert will burn cleaner, hence less chance of a chimney fire. A modern insert with proper operation will be 10x safer than a regular fireplace (my figures)

With regard to your floor plan, an insert will result in significant heat and energy savings, depending on how often you burn. If you plan on occasional fires (ambience, holidays, special occasions) then stick with the fireplace, costs for an insert would not be justified. If you plan on burning all winter, then go with the insert. Your residual heat into the bedroom is nice, but the insert can do the same. Your floor plan looks challenging to get the heat back to the bedrooms, a fan on the floor in the hallway will move cold air towards the fireplace. If bedroom #1 is used alot and us wish to warm it with the insert heat, then a thru-the wall transfer fan can move cold air out or warm air in. Just keep in mind that air displacement requires an in-source and out-source (have to replace the moved air). Closed bedroom doors will prevent warm air from entering.

My insert saves me at least $130 p/month in electric and I use no propane for back up heat. I load 2 times per day, fill, set it, forget it.