Are new stoves wimps? Monitoring temps in my Lopi Endeavor

[rhetoric]

Old Stove: 1/2 inch thick semi-air tight steel smoke dragon. Crank it full of wood, let it rip (out the heat and through the wood). Overfire? Hah! It laughed at high temperatures. The stove was easy.

New Stove: Lopi Endeavor and if I build any kind of normal fire (and the box is small 2.2 to begin with) and walk away for 15 minutes I come back w/ stove temps of 900 (plus, perhaps -- that's all the higher my thermometer goes). Flue temps are maybe 400. Then I have to shut it way back. If I filled this thing with splits and closed all the dampers I'm afraid it would melt.

Am I right in assuming these new secondary burn stoves are finicky and delicate and must be monitored like a toddler? My thermometer is right smack dab on the low step of the top middle of the stove. There is only one plate of steel there between the thermometer and the flue/secondary burn.

And it seems like there is no happy medium. If I have a good fire going w/ lots of secondary burn, the stove temp is way too high. If I damp it down to a "safe" temp, the secondary burn disappears. You mean this stove is too wimpy to make a secondary burn?

Incidently? The new flue is not sealed -- I tested w/ a lighter and the flame really gets sucked into the joints on the flue. Is that related?

I want an efficient stove, but I've got other things to do besides stand there and mointor the temp. Hmmmmmmm.

 

[BrotherBart]

The short answer is yes, they are wimps. Too tired to elaborate right now and I have to go babysit the stove for tonight's burn.

Film at eleven.

 

[Dunadan]

From my limited experience, if they are wimpy at all (talking Lopi since that's what I have) compared to the old beasts of yesterday, it's like the way a Mercedes is wimpy compared to a tank. Completely different animals.

Old Stove: 1/2 inch thick semi-air tight steel smoke dragon. Crank it full of wood, let it rip (out the heat and through the wood). Overfire? Hah! It laughed at high temperatures. The stove was easy.

But what type of efficiency did you get?

New Stove: Lopi Endeavor and if I build any kind of normal fire (and the box is small 2.2 to begin with) and walk away for 15 minutes I come back w/ stove temps of 900 (plus, perhaps—that’s all the higher my thermometer goes).

That doesn't sound right. Something must be up with your stove. I have the Revere, which is basically the same stove you have but in insert form, and I'd have to try as hard as I could to get the temp up to 900. If I have a full load going full blast, my temps will get up to around 700, but I've never seen them go higher, and never does it jump that much in 15 minutes. What temp are you claiming you are going from to 900 in 15 mins.

If I filled this thing with splits and closed all the dampers I’m afraid it would melt.

Are you closing down the bypass once your fire gets going? I'm assuming you have one too. If you leave this open, you increase your draft, which produces a stronger fire. You're only supposed to have this open when you add more wood, or are starting a fresh fire.

Am I right in assuming these new secondary burn stoves are finicky and delicate and must be monitored like a toddler? My thermometer is right smack dab on the low step of the top middle of the stove. There is only one plate of steel there between the thermometer and the flue/secondary burn.

Not from what I've seen. I burned 24*7 last year from mid-October through March, and never was concerned about it.

And it seems like there is no happy medium. If I have a good fire going w/ lots of secondary burn, the stove temp is way too high. If I damp it down to a “safe” temp, the secondary burn disappears. You mean this stove is too wimpy to make a secondary burn?

You need to learn how to burn with your new stove. It takes time. I spent all of last season trying to figure it out, but due to bad draft from a poor install, I wasn't able to figure it out. I corrected the draft issue this year, and so far am having much better luck learning exactly the best way to operate the stove. The manual does a very poor job letting you know what to do.

Once your temps hit 500-600 (bypass should already be closed) you need to adjust your air. I assume you push the control in like I do to redirect air through the burn tubes? To start I push the air control in until it (where the spiral handle meets the smooth handle rod) is lined up flush with the stove ledge. Once you do this you should get secondary burn. If I'm looking for a long burn, after a bit of secondary burn at this setting, I may push it in another 1/2" to 3/4". You should still get secondary burn at this point. For my set-up, if I go much further in than this, after a short while I'll lose the secondary burn, as the stove cools to quickly. All this of course, has been with the temps rarely dipping below 35, and usually being mid 40s to low 50s. Once it really gets cold, I'll have to see if I have better luck at lower settings from a better draft.

I want an efficient stove, but I’ve got other things to do besides stand there and mointor the temp. Hmmmmmmm.

At first you're going to have to spend a bit of time learning how your stove behaves if you want to burn it efficiently. Once you learn this, you won't have to babysit it, unless you want to really refine your burning skills. I'm still in the learning stage, so when I am around, I use the chance to monitor the stove and the temps to better understand what works best.

You've got a good stove, from everything that I've seen. Give it a chance.

 

[KeithO]

My experience with my little Morso 7110 is that I would know if I overfired, since I would have to wear a firemans suit in the room that the stove is installed in.... Seriously, we are down in the 30's and if I crack open the primary air on my unit just a little, the temperature in the great room hits 90F. So I think the high efficiency in my case makes overfiring readily noticeable. Maybe in a concrete basement it would not be quite the same, but I don't have that experience.

The old smoke dragons may have been better protected from overfiring without the secondary air, since they may have run richer and thus cooler. Get the new stoves real hot and that superheated secondary air is igniting anything in its path.

Its different to what you are used to. Human inertia is tough. You just have to learn a few new tricks. Once you get over that your stove will work just fine and you will burn less wood than before and be just as cozy. Steel has become pretty expensive and the $ is pretty weak, so there are reasons why the steel plate is not as thick as it once might have been. This is also the "disposable" generation. Nothing is expected to last forever and fashions change faster than underwear. Stove makers have to try to appeal to an ever more fickle public in order to sell their stoves. The brands that can go by reputation alone is pretty limited and they probably get supported by the "die hard" burners anyway who appreciate the values preserved by the likes of Woodstock etc.

 

[BrotherBart]

Steel has become pretty expensive and the $ is pretty weak, so there are reasons why the steel plate is not as thick as it once might have been. This is also the "disposable" generation. Nothing is expected to last forever and fashions change faster than underwear. Stove makers have to try to appeal to an ever more fickle public in order to sell their stoves. The brands that can go by reputation alone is pretty limited and they probably get supported by the "die hard" burners anyway who appreciate the values preserved by the likes of Woodstock etc.

Well said Keith. There are not going to be any of these 3/16" steel (the thinest you can still call plate steel) stove body stoves on craigslist in 30 years like the older stoves are today for sure. PE is the only one I know of still doing 1/4" bodies and 3/8" tops because the rest of the market is cost and competition driven and that steel costs some bucks these days.

Which is kinda sad given the internal temps these suckers run at now vs. the old stoves. The wave of the future in todays stoves is going to be the waves in the sides of them if they are full time burners.

 

[Gooserider]

First off you really should seal your flue, especially at the joints closest to the stove. This will give you better control over the stove since it will allow you to regulate the amount of air going into the chimney. It will also keep cooling air from leaking into the stack and thus reduce the amount of creosote buildup you get.

After that, if you still have problems, tell us more about your stack - if you have a really tall chimney, it is possible that you may have an excessively strong draft, and might need to add a stack damper - however before doing so, you need to make sure that all your gaskets are sealing properly (dollar bill test, all the way around the doors) and that the rest of your system is sealing properly, otherwise you may just be masking the real problem by trying to treat the symptoms.

Gooserider