Asking all the Experts a ?

[dswineford]

Hello, my name is Dan. I have a Regency med insert in a see-thru fireplace that has the rear blocked off with a cheepie glass door set. So the rear of insert is exposed, sort of.
My question is -has anyone tried wrapping the insert with a unfaced blanket insulation (kaowool, etc) to try to extend their heat output. I'm thinking 1/2"-1" insulation. I was thinking it could increase my external shell temp with smaller loads therefore conserving wood?? Any thoughts??

Local dealer said -NO. He said it would void my warranty. My stove is 13 years old, I doubt I could claim anything on a so-called "limited warranty" anyways.

thanks Dan

 

[Jags]

My gut feeling is that you are probably not going to get any noticeable improvement from this. If I "were" to do this I think I would insulate the glass door, not the stove. Then try and get the heat moved out of the insert area. And by the way - I am not at expert, so you may want to completely ignore me.

 

[Adios Pantalones]

Warning- I am not an expert on this or anything else short of getting myself a dish of ice cream. Damn I loves me some ice cream.

The see thru fireplace- the back is exposed? Wouldn't you get more heat out by leaving it exposed and taking off those glass doors? That is a weakness for inserts- less exposed area means less heat than a stove, and so the blower becomes really important. It sounds like you would make it worse insulating the back.

If I am not understanding this right and the back is not exposed to room air- then why not a heat shield with an air gap that creates a convection current on the other side? You want to extract the heat, not hold it in right?

Edit- if by "extend" your heat output you mean longer burn times- I don't think it will help that much. The metal doesn't hold so much heat and the blower extracts it well anyway. A hotter stove means a better draft and it will burn fast. You're better off getting the heat into the room than pumping it up the chimney, IMO.

 

[dswineford]

Please let me clarify- My ultimate goal ist to"Extend burn duration and reduce load size"

I do have unlimited supply of wood. So by doing this I would reduce my personal work load. I don't really care about wood supply i have plenty. Ash trees (emerald ash boar) can cut and burn without seasoning (take that Emeril Lagosse, BAM) HAHAHALOL

 

[Adios Pantalones]

I'm guessing that by insulating parts that were not insulated, you increase the heat and therefore the draft. More draftee = more burnee. I will take an uneducated guess that it will reduce the burn time (assuming that in both cases you shut the air right down, as I do in my Hampton- which is a very similar insert).

I might be missing the point or scenario entirely though- because I am thinking about lunch.

Anyhoo- I would be inclined to try and get as much heat out as possible- you can bank up more heat in the house that way, and withstand shorter fires (and my guess is that you will have longer fires in a stove that's cooler by not insulating).

 

[Corey]

IMHO, you'd want to expose as much of the insert as possible - and possibly flow a fan at/around the insert or run any blowers if the insert is equipped. The more heat you get out, the lower you can burn the fire, the longer the wood will last. Insulation will just keep the heat inside the stove and put more up the flue. Installing a blockoff plate, insulating/sealing any cracks around windows and doors, plus burning only enough to be comfortably warm will all help save wood (just like they do for any other fuel)

Also, even though ash burns unseasoned, log-for-log, you'll get more heat out of seasoned wood - which would probably have a much more drastic effect than any changes you can make with insulation on the stove. Cutting a year ahead will allow the wood to season and get you more heat for the same work.

 

[dswineford]

OK- here's what I'n gonna do.....
just bought a 2'x10'x1"thk pice of ceramic wool and am going to cut it 6' long and gonna drape it over the top and down the sides, Then going to cut a 2'sq pice and foil tape it to the back. I found a place over on the west side of Mi to order ceramic wool at great prices.

Dan


http://www.riverviewrefractory.com/materials.htm

 

[Adios Pantalones]

Dan- what is your hypothesis on how better insulation will make a stove burn longer? Why would a stove that is hotter inside burn longer than one that was cooler?

Looking at the question, I'm coming to the exact opposite conclusion that you are. Hotter stove drafts better and burns faster.

 

[Danno77]

Dan- what is your hypothesis on how better insulation will make a stove burn longer? Why would a stove that is hotter inside burn longer than one that was cooler?

Looking at the question, I'm coming to the exact opposite conclusion that you are. Hotter stove drafts better and burns faster.

I'm new here, but I would hypothesize that if you keep it from loosing heat inappropriately you can burn hotter with it closed off more. and then make the wood last longer. ---Darnit, upon rereading I don't think that explains what I'm thinking very well.... I'll let someone with more "lingo" explain it.

 

[dswineford]

Dan- what is your hypothesis on how better insulation will make a stove burn longer? Why would a stove that is hotter inside burn longer than one that was cooler?

Looking at the question, I'm coming to the exact opposite conclusion that you are. Hotter stove drafts better and burns faster.

Well I look at it like this- think of your stove like a house. The more insulatation you have in the walls and attic the less heat is requird to maintain a determined temp. So if I insulate the box with unfaced(foilless) ceramic wool I can throw less wood in and still get a high temp burn, also retain the heat longer overnite.

 

[Adios Pantalones]

Dan- what is your hypothesis on how better insulation will make a stove burn longer? Why would a stove that is hotter inside burn longer than one that was cooler?

Looking at the question, I'm coming to the exact opposite conclusion that you are. Hotter stove drafts better and burns faster.

I'm new here, but I would hypothesize that if you keep it from loosing heat inappropriately you can burn hotter with it closed off more. and then make the wood last longer. ---Darnit, upon rereading I don't think that explains what I'm thinking very well.... I'll let someone with more "lingo" explain it.

What is "losing heat innapropriately"? That is heating your house with a stove.

How does keeping heat in the stove make wood last longer? If the stove is hotter, it will draft more- so unless he used to keep the air open and has way too much heat coming out of the stove, and hopes to close the air more now- I don't see how it will last longer. Either way- it will give him less heat. Keeping the heat in the stove means putting it up the chimney (aside from what a blower transmits to the room).

Smoke- do you have over-capacity with this stove now? Do you keep the primary air open?

An insert is accepted as less efficient than a stove because of less exposed surface, and insulating it more will exacerbate this (kaowool is a GREAT insulator- I have used hundreds of square feet- 3 full rolls- on my kiln). Maybe it will even give overfire issues as the stove cannot cool as it normally might- a far worse case than Potter's question about adding firebrick to the outside of the stove.

 

[Adios Pantalones]

Dan- what is your hypothesis on how better insulation will make a stove burn longer? Why would a stove that is hotter inside burn longer than one that was cooler?

Looking at the question, I'm coming to the exact opposite conclusion that you are. Hotter stove drafts better and burns faster.

Well I look at it like this- think of your stove like a house. The more insulatation you have in the walls and attic the less heat is requird to maintain a determined temp. So if I insulate the box with unfaced(foilless) ceramic wool I can throw less wood in and still get a high temp burn, also retain the heat longer overnite.

That will only work if you can safely restrict the air a lot more than you currently do. Even if the burn is higher-temp, less heat will be going from the stove into your house because 1) less wood contains less energy (not really disputable) and 2) insulation means that less heat gets out of the stove, and probably more goes up the chimney.

I don't want to be insulting- I just think that you are throwing out heat and will get a shorter burn unless restricting air much more than you do now.

 

[Adios Pantalones]

I am assuming that he can cut that primary down to zero already (or as close as the design allows) because his Regency is very similar in design to my insert (if not, then maybe that ash is not as dry as you think?).

Even if not, the stove will provide less heat per stick of wood is my guess based on the inefficiency that he's adding on purpose. More heat in the stove that cannot get out- it will go up the chimney. Less heat over a longer time, and less heat in total.

 

[pgmr]

Ok, I am an expert (if you mean "ex = has been" and "spurt = drip under pressure") ;-)

The only benefit I can see to wrapping the insert would be to prevent heat transfer to parts of the chimney that you don't want heated. Eg, an outside chimney where heat would be wicked away to the outside environment.

Since you have a two sided fireplace (and assuming the doors you mentioned aren't on the outside of the house), then you've got an interior chimney, which can be (if it's a masonry structure and not a ZC prefab) a great thermal mass that will radiate heat into the house long after the stove cools to ambient temp. As long as you have a block off plate to keep heat from going into masonry flue, I'd suggest leaving it alone.