Baker flue adapter ? custom fab job

[WoodButcher80]

hello again.

well, i just got off the phone with Baker stove company in PA , and have a question for you guys.
the baker stove i got has a 9" long x 5" wide weld-to-weld opening in the back of it to connect to your flue liner. the guys at Baker said that they custom make the openings of the stoves to suit each customers needs.

well, i need it to fit a 8" flue liner so i need to make an adapter. apparently they dont sell the adapter, but they make one for you for a special price, ship it, and ill have it welded on.

it seems simple enough and hes calling me back today with a price quote. my question to you is if anyone knows of a web site or another route to get a flue adapter made for this stove. heres a pic of the back of the stove. i said 9"x5" weld to weld. the actual hole is about 8.5"x4.5" inner dimensions. i also only have about 4" above the firebox height of the stove to wiggle the stove into the masonry of the fireplace without having to tilt the stove to get it past the masonry lip .

any suggestions would be great. ill get back to you on the price and you tell me if its fair .

 

[brooktrout]

I had the same situation with mine. Buck didn't "customize" the outlets to their stoves, but the stoves did have the rectangular opening which, as you know, can't be easily adapted to a round flue. I fabricated mine out of 16 gauge steel plate. Worked out pretty good.

 

[woodgeek]

If you google "ventinox insert boot" you will find a variety of adapters in the $120-150 range. I used one on my old insert to go from a 8" round opening to an 8" oval liner, and I only had 5" clearance to the fireplace lintel. Rather than welding, these guys are held down by screws to crossbars on the inside of the flue opening. These block the opening a little, but not so much I worried about it. The connections were then sealed with stove cement. Don't know if this will work for you, but it is a comparison point.

 

[woodgeek]

I should add that the boot I got had a rectangular base that I think would cover your opening. An advantage of the no weld solution is that you can attach the boot after sliding the stove into the fireplace, and break the connection if you ever need to pull it (leaving the boot hanging from the liner).

 

[WoodButcher80]

ok, i did a little research, and it seems the only way to go with these guys is drilling 2 holes in my insert and wing nutting this adapter down .

(broken link removed to http://www.chimneylinerdepot.com/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=25)

i of course would seal it up with stove sealant . i wish they were cheaper. maybe i can go to the local welding place and they could custom make something for me cheaper than 130$ . . .

 

[WoodButcher80]

any suggestions? thx guys. want to buy it tomorrow or asap

 

[woodgeek]

I went with the Ventinox DCF-RO boot. I think you could use the Ventinox ICO-8 boot. Compared to the one you found, you would need to 'ovalize' the end of your 8" liner (no bigs, esp if you are already going through a narrow damper opening). On the plus side, you could avoid drilling into your insert, which seems a PITA (either drilling an tapping the outer wall, or thru holes into the firebox?). That is, this boot has a draw down kit, which pulls the adapter down onto a crossbar spanning the flue opening with a bolt/wingnut.

When I was shopping for this stuff on the 'net, I was frustrated that no one would sell to a DIYer, only dealers. In reality, I think most of these venders will sell to you, but you have to call them up on the phone. If you want to go this route, and a couple calls around doesn't find a deal, I can PM you the outfit that sold to me.

I agree completely about the $$$. Don't forget the block-off plate.

 

[WoodButcher80]

the baker fireside is a beast. it definitely needs a 7" or 8" flue for proper drafting. . heres a link of the installation kit im looking at

http://www.protechinfo.com/VENTINOX-Direct-Connect-Kits-c252.html .

i think i would go with the TVK-RE-10 KIT , with has the ICO-10 boot .

i have 2 questions:

1. the TVK-RE-10 kit comes with a 10" diameter flex connector thats ovalized. i was told my stove should use a 8" diameter flue. . . will this 10" flex connector mess things up since its bigger than my assumed chimney flue? never heard of a 10" flex connector. . . i guess i need to get dirty and measure my flue diameter. ....


2. when someone ovalizes their flex connector to fix through where the damper was, does that restrict airflow?

 

[woodgeek]

First, your questions...

1. If you look at the outer dimensions of an ovalized 8" flex, its something like 10x5, which is darned close to your exhaust opening. Generally, matching the area of the exhaust opening is the rule of thumb. I really think an ovalized 8 is gonna work for you.
I guess you're responding to the wording on the web-site that says that an ovalized 8" liner is like a 6" liner, and you need an ovalized 10" liner if you want to match a 8" round. That doesn't seem to be the CW among folks around here. That is, the small loss on ovalization is less than going down a full size on the diameter. Any venting experts care to chime in?

2. A lot of folks ovalize to fit though the damper (if they don't cut the frame out), I'd say if you had a 5" or larger opening it would be a non-issue.

I think we can def overthink the flue issue....when in doubt, go with what code requires and the manual/manufacturer recommends and don't worry past that.

Now my opinion.....

Not to muddy the issue but, I will point out that if you are talking the direct connect KITs, you are talking a lot more money--within spitting distance of a cheap liner price, esp on sale. I bought the kit, but that was b/c I couldn't fit a 8" liner in my chimney. I also burn only nights/WE, so the cleaning is much less an issue than if I was 24/7. If I decide to go 24/7, I will be getting a new stove and a 6" liner.

Check with Baker that they rule out a 6" liner (which is much cheaper). Overall, a 6" liner might draft similarly to a 8" direct connect + masonry. The issue is whether they have EPA/safety tested your model with a 6" liner. If you have to go 8", then that is just a premium you are paying for that stove.

If you are gonna put some serious wood through your stove, and approach 24/7, you will not regret the liner over the direct connect. Every time you sweep, you'll decide it was money well spent.

 

[WoodButcher80]

i guess the 1st thing i should do is get a definitive answer from Baker as to the size of the flue connector recommended. my chimney sweeper guy said he thought for my stove a 7" minimum should be used. and said to get 4' of ROUND connector pipe and angle grind out the entire brick in the way of the adapter to fit the liner through where the damper was.

he also said that since i would be burning correctly and hot that 4' of pipe would be fine. im thinking he means that i dont need the direct connect, and just need a pipe to extend out beyond the smoke chamber and to sheet metal off the remaining damper hole to prevent house heat from escaping. .

i do like the idea of the DCF-R8 boot.

 

[bsruther]

I used the two piece boot. I think it was the RE-8 on my old Buck when I refurbed it. It worked very well. I didn't weld it because I wanted to be able to remove it. I drilled extra holes to bolt it on for a better seal.

 

[woodgeek]

Sounds like the sweep was saying a direct connect and blockoff plate was 'fine'. From a code/safety point of view and a heat retention point of view he's right. I also get a good draft with my direct connect.

A full liner is still going to be the same boot/block off plate cost/pain. Its just going to be a bit more $$ for the pipe, but a very good investment according to the folks around here. If you want more details, tell us how tall your chimney is, and whether it is interior or not....

 

[WoodButcher80]

its an outside chimney, i have a 20yr old colonial, so its on the far wing of the house (my luck) and its independent to anything else(built from the 1st floor up). its only about 15' tall or so. the Sweep said its a short chimney , and my brother recommended an 8" pipe to increase draft since its a shorter chimney.the masonry chimney im using is closest to my bike on the right. see attached pics. also another pic of where the Baker is going into. thanks guys for the help.

 

[woodgeek]

With such a short stack, and exterior, I think you'll get much better draft with an insulated liner, of whatever size Baker or the manual recs.

At least it looks like you have easy access to the chimney top.

 

[WoodButcher80]

well i talked to Baker , and they said they use 7" outlets on their new insert, which is the same size as mine almost.

i took more pics for you guys. heres several of my damper . the dimensions of the damper opening are 28" wide by 4" high . i just want to know what to buy so i can get this in the hole! the lady is not happy with the 61 degree thermo on the oil heater to conserve .

so... consider this.

Baker says 7-8" flex connector is suggested.

15'-18' chimney thats outside

need to buy a boot adapter for the stove (rectangle outlet is 8 1/4 wide by 4 1/4 high)

will be in the house for atleast 3-5yrs or more (long-run cost effectiveness) .

have an angle grinder for taking out a couple bricks if using a round pipe(confused on which ones to remove if need be, see below pics) pics of damper closed, then open.


ide like to do it right. if that means a 7" 20' liner, then fine. but i would like to keep it within a lower budget (dont we all) .

i KNOW how important draft is , and if itll same me a 1/3 - 1/2 cord of wood a year in efficiency to get a whole 20' liner, then fine.

thank in advance.

 

[ansehnlich1]

Hey I just wanted to let you know I live close to Baker. Been to there little manufacturing facility, bought a coal stove from 'em about 10 or 12 years ago..... my brother is still using it today.

Good company, not huge, but they make good stoves.

 

[WoodButcher80]

good to hear... thats why i wanna gets this big bugger in there. got some pignut ready to burn.

 

[theheatelement]

Just to give everyone a heads up $130.00 doesn't go that much in this economy... imagine.. you have to walk over to a place of business and occupy someone's time... i.e. 15 minutes... they then have to draw it up in a cad program.. another 15 minutes, it then has to be cut on a machine and formed and then welded... If you think about the amount of time plus steel cost which have been enormous plus painting... 130.00$ isn't that much... even if it was for a competitor.

 

[WoodButcher80]

ummmmm what?

 

[BrotherBart]

Just to give everyone a heads up $130.00 doesn't go that much in this economy... imagine.. you have to walk over to a place of business and occupy someone's time... i.e. 15 minutes... they then have to draw it up in a cad program.. another 15 minutes, it then has to be cut on a machine and formed and then welded... If you think about the amount of time plus steel cost which have been enormous plus painting... 130.00$ isn't that much... even if it was for a competitor.

Are you saying it makes more sense money and time wise to buy a stock adapter than the have one made?

 

[bsruther]

My damper opening was about the same size as yours. I know your chimney guy said to get round pipe but I think you'll have to ovalize it or just buy ovalized pipe. I had to cut that cast iron tab off in the old damper opening too.

 

[WoodButcher80]

do they make 25' pipe where the last 10 feet is ovalized to fit through the damper and onto the stove boot? if so , that wouldnt be too bad to do, right?

 

[woodgeek]

I'm pretty sure that the cheap liners you can ovalize yourself by putting a little weight on it. For the heavy-duty welded flex liners
that can be hard to do, but I think those vendors can custom ovalize the end??

Seems like you are converging here... you need
1. a stock adapter boot (I'd go the pull down (no drill) rather than screw down (drill) route, cuz I'm lazy. I agree with Magna that
$130 is a reasonable price on a low volume product--does MagnaFlex sell a comparable adapter?)
2. a 8" liner kit (I'd buy the cheapest one available online, likely a different guy than sold me the boot, and ovalize it myself, cuz I
don't think the heavy-duty welded liners are worth the extra cost)
3. a block-off plate (fab yourself, see hearth wiki, or buy a $$ commercial version from the guy who sells you the boot. I'd fab one.)

The only remaining question is to insulate the liner for better draft or not, and I really have no experience with that.

Once you're running, you can play with insulating behind the insert and venting the surround to get more heat thrown into
your living space....lots of opinions around here.

 

[WoodButcher80]

so i guess i need to get on the roof(when the snow backs off for a couple days) and shoot a tape measure down the chimney and find out how far it is from the top to the masonry floor where the stove goes? its gonna be a pain attaching the boot AND the pipe to the boot while inside the masonry.. tight squeeze getting around the 45" shroud.

heres a cheaper one i found , its still .006" thick, so its not that bad.

http://cgi.ebay.com/8-X-20-SS-M-FLE...ryZ20598QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

[woodgeek]

I found a tall cardboard box the same height as my insert, sat my boot on that in the right position in the firebox, and did the block-off plate/insulation, flex hookup and
cement sealing that way. Then I pulled the box and slid the insert under the boot, cemented the boot/insert junction and installed the pulldown kit. Made it a lot easier.