Battery back up and shutdown

[tonyiiiafl]

I have a Hartman Accentra52i insert. Just bought APC 1500 battery back up unit. I have heard that the stove will shot down automatically when the power goes out. However there a setting on the circuit board that needs to be adjusted? I have read about dipswitch 4 has to be changed to “on”. Where are those switch’s? Mine was bought new in September 2017

 

[minux]

Congratulations on the purchase. I have an older AC52i. The technology on any stove is about ten years behind the curve. UPSs provide you the ability to do a safe shut down in the event of power loss, clearing the exhaust from the stove, so it does not enter the home. Would be seriously surprised if any sort of AI can recognize a power outage. You would manually turn the room / stove temp nob to off, using the UPS to do the shutdown.

 

[Montecarlossfan]

If the unit is a pure sine wave, the stove will keep running , if it is not pure sine(own), the correct setting on the dip switch will allow it to start shutting down on its own.

 

[tbear853]

Y'all get smoke in the house?

I've had a pellet stove since winter of '92, we live in the country, the electricity will go off suddenly without notice, even if stoves are running. When it happens my stove's fans stop drawing air through the burn pot and the auger will stop pushing pellets, the fire dies down to embers, but we get no smoke in the house. If the power comes back on, if there is heat in the burn pot, the stove starts moving air again and resumes. If power is out long enough that the stove goes cold, we simply do a light clean and restart when power is back on or generated.

I am thinking of using an inverter to make 110 VDC off a couple car batteries as a back up. For now, we use blankets until it get's cold enough for me to go start the generator.

 

[minux]

Y'all get smoke in the house?

I've had a pellet stove since winter of '92, we live in the country, the electricity will go off suddenly without notice, even if stoves are running. When it happens my stove's fans stop drawing air through the burn pot and the auger will stop pushing pellets, the fire dies down to embers, but we get no smoke in the house. If the power comes back on, if there is heat in the burn pot, the stove starts moving air again and resumes. If power is out long enough that the stove goes cold, we simply do a light clean and restart when power is back on or generated.

I am thinking of using an inverter to make 110 VDC off a couple car batteries as a back up. For now, we use blankets until it get's cold enough for me to go start the generator.

I never had smoke in my house with my Harman...

Page 15 talks about battery backups - https://downloads.hearthnhome.com/installManuals/Accentra52i-TC_Installer.pdf

When power is lost, a fully charged UPS will power a safe, combustion blower only shut-down. Your appliance will pulse the blower every few seconds to clear exhaust until the fire is out.Note: The UPS provides safe shut-down only. It is not intended for continued operation. Note: The UPS provides safe shut-down only. It is not intended for continued operation.

 

[minux]

If the unit is a pure sine wave, the stove will keep running , if it is not pure sine(own), the correct setting on the dip switch will allow it to start shutting down on its own.

Dip switches on the 52i are the little toggles right by the control knobs.

Apparently, when you have one of the two approved UPSs connected, any Harman made after November 2010 with E version firmware released on NOV2012 enters emergency shut down mode when connected to a UPS. The two models listed are not true sine wave UPSs, so the motherboard on the 52i must recognize non-sine power and enter emergency shut down mode.

 

[Dataman]

I have Harmon XXV (2014 Manuf). I got AIMS 1250 Inverter/Charger along with couple of 100ah Deep Cycle Batteries. I get 12 hours of run time with Distro Fan on 1/2 speed (Manual Model). My stove replaced BK King that used 8" Steel Chimmney. We use step down adapter on the wall and the rest is 8". I did test when I got it to see if any smoke escapes. No Smoke. I have used it once for 8 hours before we got 2nd battery (Got battery from Generator to use). For long term outage we have 7k Generator run thru transfer panel, but it's manual with me having to run power cable out to it and start it. Have yet to do more than test in 8+ years. It's more for backup for the pump than anything. But it could charge batteries if needed. In the Future I want 2k Portable Generator for long term outage.

 

[tbear853]

I have Harmon XXV (2014 Manuf). I got AIMS 1250 Inverter/Charger along with couple of 100ah Deep Cycle Batteries. I get 12 hours of run time with Distro Fan on 1/2 speed (Manual Model). My stove replaced BK King that used 8" Steel Chimmney. We use step down adapter on the wall and the rest is 8". I did test when I got it to see if any smoke escapes. No Smoke. I have used it once for 8 hours before we got 2nd battery (Got battery from Generator to use). For long term outage we have 7k Generator run thru transfer panel, but it's manual with me having to run power cable out to it and start it. Have yet to do more than test in 8+ years. It's more for backup for the pump than anything. But it could charge batteries if needed. In the Future I want 2k Portable Generator for long term outage.

For batteries, I have several "loose", two are good group 65 car batteries in a cart I keep maintained, two are smaller Gold Wing size MC batteries, both those are AGM batteries. My stove is a VC Reliance, from 1992, but it seams to be vintage Harmon Accentra on the inside. Yes, distribution and exhaust fans and auger would use power ... as would the brain.

I have a 9600w generator on wheels that runs about 12 hours on 7 gallons that I used a few days in earnest in hot summer of '12 due to "the great derecho", then after back to normal changed oil & drained tank & carb, wheeled back into shop ... and a still new smaller 4000w that I bought on a super sale at NH one day to burn a coupon, I have yet to start it though. I did add wheels as it had none, but I lifted it into the trunk of my Mercury GM to haul home so it's pretty portable on wheels. It was bought as portable power. Both will charge batteries ... as will several Fords (why I have those two group 65s on hand). I have the transfer switch box, etc too.

Bought one of the small green 2 cycle portable generators for my brother in law and his wife to use at their horse-n-donkey barn that's 3-400 feet down a hill from the house, bought on sale at HF, and they have used the heck out of it I think, always attended when in use though, or so they say. Small and light = good for toting to the need. I don't recall wattage, but it likely would run a stove and reading lamp ok. Now I'm thinking.

 

[tonyiiiafl]

Dip switches on the 52i are the little toggles right by the control knobs.

Apparently, when you have one of the two approved UPSs connected, any Harman made after November 2010 with E version firmware released on NOV2012 enters emergency shut down mode when connected to a UPS. The two models listed are not true sine wave UPSs, so the motherboard on the 52i must recognize non-sine power and enter emergency shut down mode.

My UPS is a pure sine wave as I thought it would be better. I am going to see what Hartman tested and get one to try. Stove is a 2017 with e revision software.

 

[Dataman]

Harman's Recommendations are Lame. (broken link removed) One of them is OBSOLETE too. Make sure it's Pure Sine Wave is all. Third year on AIMS 1250 and it's been great. Expensive is only downside.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Y'all get smoke in the house?

I've had a pellet stove since winter of '92, we live in the country, the electricity will go off suddenly without notice, even if stoves are running. When it happens my stove's fans stop drawing air through the burn pot and the auger will stop pushing pellets, the fire dies down to embers, but we get no smoke in the house. If the power comes back on, if there is heat in the burn pot, the stove starts moving air again and resumes. If power is out long enough that the stove goes cold, we simply do a light clean and restart when power is back on or generated.

I am thinking of using an inverter to make 110 VDC off a couple car batteries as a back up. For now, we use blankets until it get's cold enough for me to go start the generator.

I'm lazy. Mine starts automatically, 45 seconds after utility drop out with a 30 second 'warm up' delay. 27KW diesel standby. John Deere turbo diesel powered. Stove and everything else) keeps right on trucking, like it never happened. Actually, the generator power is better than the utility power as we are at the end of the power line. We get 'what's left'.....lol

 

[SidecarFlip]

For batteries, I have several "loose", two are good group 65 car batteries in a cart I keep maintained, two are smaller Gold Wing size MC batteries, both those are AGM batteries. My stove is a VC Reliance, from 1992, but it seams to be vintage Harmon Accentra on the inside. Yes, distribution and exhaust fans and auger would use power ... as would the brain.

I have a 9600w generator on wheels that runs about 12 hours on 7 gallons that I used a few days in earnest in hot summer of '12 due to "the great derecho", then after back to normal changed oil & drained tank & carb, wheeled back into shop ... and a still new smaller 4000w that I bought on a super sale at NH one day to burn a coupon, I have yet to start it though. I did add wheels as it had none, but I lifted it into the trunk of my Mercury GM to haul home so it's pretty portable on wheels. It was bought as portable power. Both will charge batteries ... as will several Fords (why I have those two group 65s on hand). I have the transfer switch box, etc too.

Bought one of the small green 2 cycle portable generators for my brother in law and his wife to use at their horse-n-donkey barn that's 3-400 feet down a hill from the house, bought on sale at HF, and they have used the heck out of it I think, always attended when in use though, or so they say. Small and light = good for toting to the need. I don't recall wattage, but it likely would run a stove and reading lamp ok. Now I'm thinking.

Those are not PSW and limited output (I believe less than 1000 watts Hertz is entirely goverened by engine rpm and nothing else. I believe they are called 'Tailgators' Cheapo Chinese genny.

 

[tbear853]

Those are not PSW and limited output (I believe less than 1000 watts Hertz is entirely goverened by engine rpm and nothing else. I believe they are called 'Tailgators' Cheapo Chinese genny.

Yeah, I was thinking today as I redid my flue, not a great idea so I'll stick with what I have.

I thought about bigger / more "installed" like backup, but then I haven't used what I have since that derecho in 2012, so I'll stick with my portable units. If power were to go out in cold of winter, gen will more than run my hot water based main heat if needed, doubt I'd fool with pellets at all.

 

[SidecarFlip]

With my diesel standy, I rarely think about power outages anymore. It's all turnkey automatic now.

 

[Connecticut Yankee]

When we got our stove a couple of years ago, the advice on the forum was that whether you needed to worry about smoke in the house from a power failure depended on how much draft you got from the chimney. If there's enough draft, it will continue to remove smoke from the stove, even with the exhaust fan off. On the other hand, the peace of mind of having a UPS is relatively inexpensive.

 

[minux]

When we got our stove a couple of years ago, the advice on the forum was that whether you needed to worry about smoke in the house from a power failure depended on how much draft you got from the chimney. If there's enough draft, it will continue to remove smoke from the stove, even with the exhaust fan off. On the other hand, the peace of mind of having a UPS is relatively inexpensive.

My UPS is a pure sine wave as I thought it would be better. I am going to see what Hartman tested and get one to try. Stove is a 2017 with e revision software.

If you go with the pure sine wave, then you will need to manually shut down the stove, throwing the room temp / stove temp to off.

The best way to test whether you need a non-sine wave UPS is to let your stove heat up, blower fans on, then turn the stove off and monitor the room. If you can detect smoke, then you are not getting the draft necessary out of the flu, and would benefit from one of Harman's recommendations for non-sive wave UPSs.

 

[SidecarFlip]

I'm not an electronics expert by a long shot but.. I do know that sensitive electronic components (your control board) require 60hz PSW power to operate correctly, which is, of course utility power. Input voltage isn't a big deal, your line voltage will vary from just above 100 volts to around 120, depending on imposed load and your wiring but the CPS remains constant at 60hz and utility power is always PSW, no exceptions to that. The big power generators at the power plant are spinning at a very constant RPM to produce 60hz.

My medical equipment expressly states only 60 hz power. I use a Aims Power PSW inverter to power it when I'm in my RV and of course, my diesel powered standby genny makes 60hz because the engine has a constant speed (1800 rpm) governor that senses the CPS and adjusts the engine to maintain that.

If I was to add a stand alone power supply to my stove (don't need it), it would be a PSW, electronically regulated inverter, no exceptions. Modified sine wave inverters are cheap, PSW inverters are not. Imagine a wave pattern. A PSW inverter, the wave form rises and falls with sharp peaks and valleys. A modified sine wave waveform has the peaks and valleys but at each rise and fall, it's flat, not pointed. That flat part is what fries electronics.

Having said that, it's your wallet but myself, I don't want to replace a board because the components fried from dirty power. Things cost too much as it is. It won't hurt the drive motors. The board is a crapshoot.

 

[Ssyko]

For those that don’t understand what sidecar is saying

 

[minux]

Not disagree with what is being said, but for the "emergency shut down procedure to commence," as the OP asked about, on Harman stoves requires non-sine waves / "modified sine waves" in the example above.

FYSA, if you want to go down this rabbit on quality power, square waves are required for "emergency shut down procedures" on Harman stoves.

YOU WANT sine waves, when you are talking about things like radios, TVs, light bulbs, etc. If the device does not get smooth power curves, you will see flickering, audio cutouts, lights pulsing, etc. Sine waves are ideal, but guess what? Your Harman stove won't enter emergency shut down procedures on a sine wave UPS.

With motors, like a blower fan, you will hear, if you know what to listen to, a slight difference in sine versus square; HOWEVER, for the OP to get what he wants, he needs a UPS producing NON-sine wave.

 

[Connecticut Yankee]

Your Harman stove won't enter emergency shut down procedures on a sine wave UPS.

I suspect the point is that if your generator or inverter is capable of producing a pure sine wave, the stove need not shut down, whereas if the sine wave is not pure, the stove had better shut down, or else it can expect to suffer damage. It's actually a fairly elegant solution. However, an even better idea would be a connection between the UPS and the stove, such as one finds on UPS's intended for computers, that would unequivocally signal the device to shut down.

 

[minux]

I suspect the point is that if your generator or inverter is capable of producing a pure sine wave, the stove need not shut down, whereas if the sine wave is not pure, the stove had better shut down, or else it can expect to suffer damage. It's actually a fairly elegant solution. However, an even better idea would be a connection between the UPS and the stove, such as one finds on UPS's intended for computers, that would unequivocally signal the device to shut down.

Which would result in the OP running over to the stove and turning the stove off, not automatically shutting down...

 

[Mt Bob]

Non pure sine wave is fine,for most things,to "shut down". That is why so many computer UPS systems are not true sine wave,they are going to be shutting down,and is a matter if minutes.For continuous running,every thing is better off with true.but,about non -true, this statement is wrong--
"It won't hurt the drive motors. "

 

[minux]

Non pure sine wave is fine,for most things,to "shut down". That is why so many computer UPS systems are not true sine wave,they are going to be shutting down,and is a matter if minutes.For continuous running,every thing is better off with true.but,about non -true, this statement is wrong--
"It won't hurt the drive motors. "

Shutting down is not what the OP asked about... OP said, "stove will shot down automatically."

The OP can only have automatic shut down with a square wave UPS. IF THE OP RUNS SINE, THEN NO AUTO SHUTDOWN. OP RUN SQUARE, OP GET AUTO SHUTDOWN. See page 15 in the manual I posted above.

Motors run on square all the time.... PERFECTLY fine. I would not replace a Tesla Power Wall's sine inverter with square, HOWEVER. Kapeesh?

Here is what IEEE says -

"Motors are the only appliances which are guaranteed to be compatible with working with square wave inverters. All other appliances such as refrigerator, air conditioner, television etc. are usually not supported for square wave inverters such that they cannot even be connected to the square wave inverter."

 

[Mt Bob]

Shutting down is not what the OP asked about... OP said, "stove will shot down automatically."

The OP can only have automatic shut down with a square wave UPS. IF THE OP RUNS SINE, THEN NO AUTO SHUTDOWN. OP RUN SQUARE, OP GET AUTO SHUTDOWN. See page 15 in the manual I posted above.

Motors run on square all the time.... PERFECTLY fine. I would not replace a Tesla Power Wall's sine inverter with square, HOWEVER. Kapeesh?

Induction motors,as pellet stoves and almost all household stuff have,are designed for true.On non true, they run hotter and slower.That is just the facts.

 

[minux]

Induction motors,as pellet stoves and almost all household stuff have,are designed for true.On non true, they run hotter and slower.That is just the facts.

Harman says -



For Harman's "safe shut-down only," all UPS recommendations are SQUARE.