Best location for fans?

[Eric Schaefer]

Hello, new to the site, new to burning, new to stoves and my eyes are tired of reading.

Last February we moved into a house (renting), that the owner suggested we use the wood stove and boy was he right, utilities were ridiculous.

So not being a stranger to burning wood (camp fires, etc), axes, saws, or hard work, we stocked up for this up coming winter. I did use the wood stove for a month or two when we moved in, it was still needed here and there, got comfortable with it.

So the stove in question is a fireplace insert. I know nothing about it. It says Berkshire across the steel doors, and that's it, no other markings. The owner got it for free and put it in, literally shoving it in place and calling it good. There's no pipe from the stove, up the chimney, not even up past the masonry fireplace damper/flue. It's inefficient, and burns a lot of wood, has awful draft. I'm trying to correct a lot of that.

I'm in the process of welding in a flue collar, as it does not have one, and my neighbor has enough SS flex left after his new epa stove insert last year, that I can do mine.

So I'm getting better with this, but my major question is, how can I circulate this heat. I have probably the worst floor layout of a house for trying to utilize a wood stove. I've made a crude picture of the layout. Any help would be appreciated.

My only though is to put a fan in the hallway blowing the cold air towards the living room. I've read mixed opinions on trying to use a return vent for the hvac to cycle it through the house. But I could put one near the crest of the vaulted celing above the stove.

 

[begreen]

Yes, I can see the challenge. Would it be possible to install a fan in the wall that is common between the LR and hallway? If so, maybe try a wall cavity fan that blows the hallway air into the LR?Take the air in low on the hall side and near the top plate on the LR side. And be sure the cavity is clear with no blocks between the fan and the opposite grille.

This is a nice quiet unit:
http://www.iaqsource.com/product.php?product=171095
http://www.amazon.com/Tjernlund-AireShare-Room-To-Room-Ventilator-Hardwired/dp/B000UC7ACE

 

[fossil]

That's gonna be one tough layout to heat with that insert. Where do you live? How cold do the winters get? I'd start looking into the many options available for small, efficient, one-room portable electric heaters. Heat only the room(s) you need to heat when you need to heat them. Oil-filled radiators reportedly give good, efficient service. One well known brand name of small elec heaters of 5 or 6 different types is DeLonghi, which are quite widely available. There are, of course, many others. Rick

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Welcome to the forum Eric.

You definitely have a huge challenge getting heat to all the rooms. Even if you could, then you have to ask if the insert will produce enough heat! Yes, blowing the cool air (but a desk fan on low speed only) into the stove room will help. I also fully agree with BeGreen.

One more big challenge for you Eric is the fuel. You've had experiece with camp fires but that doesn't give you any experience that you can take to the stove. It is a horse of a different color and the biggest thing is what kind of fuel you try to burn. Try to burn less than year old wood and you are asking for big problems. In addition, the year doesn't start until the wood has been split. Then it needs to sit outdoors in the windiest spot on your property. Doing less will give you more problems than circulating the heat!

Please visit the Wood Shed part of the forum here on hearth.com for more information on this and we will welcome you there also.

 

[jjs777_fzr]

Tough layout. If I follow you correctly then I tend to agree with one of your thoughts - relocation of the return duct for the HVAC to somewhere near the stove. That would yield the best result for circulating the heat. I highly doubt doorway fans or any other such small fans will help in this layout. HVAC is the only way to go - assuming when the doors are shut that there is ample space under the doors for return air to make its way out of the room. To help folks contribute answers - you may wish to update your profile with location etc.

 

[Todd]

Is there anything on that wall between the living room and kitchen? I'd rip it down to get a more open floor plan.

 

[begreen]

Not sure but I suspect that is a load bearing wall.

 

[fossil]

...Last February we moved into a house (renting)...

Might make it a bit tough to go cutting holes in the house and ripping out walls. If it's a structural wall removing it is a hell of a lot more complicated than just demolishing it.

I think you'll be disappointed by trying to use the installed ducting to circulate warm air from the room the insert's in. That air is nowhere near as hot as the air exiting any forced air heater (oil, gas, electric, whatever). There is considerable heat loss from the ducting, even if it's insulated. This is exacerbated by cold attics and/or crawl spaces which most ducting passes through. All you're likely to get out the registers is cool air. Many have tried. Rick

 

[begreen]

It won't hurt to try just running the furnace fan to check it out, but HVAC is not the only way to go, especially with ducting going through a cold attic space. The heat losses could negate the attempted gains. Note that according to code, the return air grille is to be no closer than 10 ft to the stove or insert.

The small fan in the wall will establish a circulation pattern. It won't help the MBR out, but I think it will make a difference in the hallway area.

 

[Dix]

Wow !! Talk about hard to heat, and a rental.

Maybe some transoms cut in strategically?

Welcome to the forums !!

 

[Eric Schaefer]

Suprised at all the replies!

I'll try this w/o replying to each. Even though it won't notify anyone this way.

Fossil - Lakewood, WA. Usually freezing in the winter, not much below. Some winters in the teens. I do have one oil space heater for when the kids are here. I don't see sucking in air through HVAC being useful either, if nothing else to help 'push' air towards stove.

Backwoods Savage - "Please visit the Wood Shed part of the forum here on hearth.com for more information on this and we will welcome you there also. " I'll see what that's all about, thanks!

jjs777_fzr- - I updated a location, I'll add some more soon!

Todd - Not all of the wall is useful, but I'm renting

begreen - The wall is load bearing, if perhaps a small part of it is not, it's complicated. Strange house. Nice to see another south puget sounder.

Doing The Dixie Eyed Hustle - No idea what a transom is, but I'll look it up!

And the post about return registers being 10' away from stoves, that's a bummer, where I'd put it is certainly not, perhaps 8 at the most. That's unfortunate, but I guess for carbon monoxide reasons.

I've spent a lot of today rebuilding my stove. The baffle up top was severely warped. The center was so far down it was impossible to load wood in the center. So I cut it out, and put in a new sheet of steel. It never had a flue collar, so I'm building one, and grabbing some SS flex from my neighbor, and will be putting that one up since there was nothing connecting the stove, just sitting up in the fireplace. I've read about the fireplace block off plate, and I'll be tackling that in the next day or two. And when all of that's done, I'll be re painting the top of the stove, since it's rusty where the kettle sat, and most of the top really. Oh and it didn't have a flue/damper on the stovea, I'll be buying a generic one, and modifying the rod so I can reach it, since the one they sell at lowes isn't for an insert, and this stove requires a hell of a long rod.

If I can't do too much to circulate the heat, I at least can make my stove more efficient.

 

[Eric Schaefer]

!

And just to get your attention, I have a few questions if you don't mind.

If and when do you cover your firewood? I would imagine in a month, near the end of september it'll revert back to our 9 month rainy season.

I have two cords I built a wood stand with osb roof for, I plan on covering 3 of the sides all but what's facing the house, since my roof only over hangs by 4" on each side.

I have another stack I made elsewhere I plan on only throwing a tarp on top to keep the rain off, I do plan on using this 2nd stack this season, but later perhaps around January or later when my 2 chords are gone, in which it'll be moved over to my nice rack.

 

[fossil]

Eric, we have a number of different forums here, roughly focused on different aspects of providing heat for our homes and families. You will find it interesting, I think, to become familiar with some of the other forums. It really helps the threads to stay on topic...by that I mean if the topic is the woodstove itself, then The Hearth Room forum is where that discussion belongs. If the topic is the fuel for the woodstove, then The Wood Shed forum is the place for that discussion. If a thread turns into discussing everything it just becomes too confused. You'll figure it out, I'm sure. Explore the Hearth.com website...there are untold riches to be found here. Welcome, and have fun! It's great to have you join us here. Rick

 

[begreen]

Considering you are renting it sounds like you are tackling the important stuff. Looks like you had a slammer installation. I'm really glad to hear that you are addressing this as well as fixing stove issues.

I built a woodshed a few years back for this season's wood supply. The rest I cover just the top. Don't close off your shed sides. You want the wind to blow through there. For more chat on this topic follow up in the wood shed forum here.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

And just to get your attention, I have a few questions if you don't mind.

If and when do you cover your firewood? I would imagine in a month, near the end of september it'll revert back to our 9 month rainy season.

I have two cords I built a wood stand with osb roof for, I plan on covering 3 of the sides all but what's facing the house, since my roof only over hangs by 4" on each side.

I have another stack I made elsewhere I plan on only throwing a tarp on top to keep the rain off, I do plan on using this 2nd stack this season, but later perhaps around January or later when my 2 chords are gone, in which it'll be moved over to my nice rack.

I'll agree that this question should be in the Wood Shed but will partially answer here.

We cut in winter, split in spring and stack immediately following the splitting. The first summer and fall we do not cover the wood which usually allows for better evaporation of moisture. Late fall or early winter (before snow piles up) we top cover using old galvanized roofing. Tarps are a poor thing to cover with! In an extremely wet climate one might consider covering the top right after stacking. Remember though that top covering is it; do not cover the sides at all. Also, putting wood immediately into a shed is not usually the best option especially if it is enclosed on the 3 sides. That is because of lack of air circulation. Wind is your friend and more important than sun for drying wood. Good luck.

 

[Eric Schaefer]

Thanks guys! I've been perusing the forums, and think I have it down to what post goes where. I'm learning

 

[begreen]

Here's what I would do considering it's a rental. Get a couple basic 12" multispeed table fans. They are going on end of summer sale right now. I've seen them locally for as low as $10 locally.

Place one fan at the far end of the hallway (outside wall), on the floor, pointing toward the kitchen. Run on low speed. Then take the second fan and put it on the floor somewhere in the kitchen area where it is safely out of the way, yet able to blow air directly into the dining room. Run this on low speed also. Run the ceiling fan on low or medium, in reverse, blowing upward in the winter.

I think you will find this method will help raise temps in the hallway by about 5 degrees. Not ideal, but you won't have to cut any holes. If this works moderately well, maybe discuss with the landlord about the Tjernlund in-the-wall fan for a more permanent solution.