Beware of claims that Italian or Euro pellet stoves are superior?

[SmokeyTheBear]

Perhaps ahead of its time and no igniter....

Igniter, that's what a little gel and matches were made for.

The tricky thing with that stove as I understand it was to get the ash extraction system just right.

Oh, it was a multi fuel unit to boot.

 

[webbie]

It is possible that the best European (and American!) Pellet stoves are truly twice as efficient as the worse ones......

Some extensive testing would have to be done to prove this - but way back when, some in-home tests were done on Pellet stoves and the difference was vast...even though all claimed high efficiency.

I think it would be fair to say that the best Pellet stoves might be 50% more efficient than some models of yesteryear or poor quality units.

But so many other factors are important - OSA temperature and feed, pellets, adjustments, rate that stove is run at, etc.

I would expect that advances in technology, if and when applied to pellet stoves, would tune them up even more.

 

[MCPO]

I think it`s a reasonable expectation that a new stove with the latest tech built into it would perform better and be more efficient than the older ones .
I just question how much more .
BUT , we do know there`s always a certain amount of fluff in the ads and ad literature where the product would rarely live up to . And lets not forget testing is usually done under the best controlled environments and probably not able to be accurately duplicated in our homes. Manufacturer testing would almost certainly be exaggerated or skewed .
Still, I`m sure many of the new pellet stoves are a valid improvement.

 

[Phil Do's fire.]

Bingo! It was in one of YOUR previous posts where I saw your claim. OK now, your claim was that you used "40% less pellets" YTD than your previous stove. I`m not going to dispute your figures but maybe how you arrived at them.
This year to date I`m using 30% more with my stove but that can be attributed at least partially to the weather or the pellets .
A cast iron heat exchanger isn`t likely to transfer heat significantly better than steel . It`s more about the design than the material used.
As I said before I can see big differences in overall efficiencies with a cheapie Joe stove vs a high end stove but 40% less fuel used in one stove vs another competitive brand would seem highly unusual and unlikely to me. Even the Pallizetti ads I saw didn`t claim 40%. If this was possible I don`t think any other high end brand would have a chance and Palizetti would be touting those claimed figures in their ads .
I mean 40% is very significant and would represent a major breakthrough in heating technology and from what I see so far the only difference is a cast iron heat exchanger which is more or less meaningless from what I understand.

The season isn't over yet and I agree that once I fire the stove down for the last time, 40% will probably not be the final number. It's colder here this year and the stove keeps track of hours in operation. I will figure out the pounds per hour used at the end of the season. I am 3 bags away from using my 1st ton of pellets ( I have the receipts)The Palazzetti reburns the gases as they exit the firepot. There is not one but two heat exchangers. The overall size of the heat exchanger area is large compared to both my previous stoves. Exhaust exiting the 5 foot outiside pellet vent are around 180 degrees, far less than the norm of 350-500 degrees of my Quad.

 

[Phil Do's fire.]

Phil, where did you get stove from, and I might just take you up on your offer about seeing it in action, will be in Hyde Park Sunday

On Ebay, Far West Sales in Oregon. $2250.00 freight included. My wife and I sold our second house and closing is on Monday, may not be able to meet with you this Sunday

 

[Phil Do's fire.]

I just ran across a thread https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/palazzetti-prima-pellet-stove-is-awesome.101210/ where the same OP claimed "Damn stove uses almost 50% less pellets than my previous stoves" . While not a great difference it is not the same as 40%. On another page in that same thread you write it`s saving you 30% compared to the Quad.
This is what I mean about exaggerations. I think most of us tend to have a propensity to embellish something we really like and that`s probably normal..
If in fact this is truly a standout pellet stove and will indeed cut pellet useage 40% over competing models , then we can be assured it or similar technology will find it`s way into more stoves and showrooms and will be "the" pellet stove to buy.

I apologize if I come across as insulting or offensive , that wasn`t my intent.

There`s nothing I`d like more than finding out that I`m dead wrong in all my assumptions.

No reason to apologize, so far the stove has been a real pellet miser

 

[smwilliamson]

The Fireplace Showcase, about 3 miles from me is the distributor and importer for Palazzetti. I think he may have sold his distribution though...

I wouldn't be so surprised to find some of the best names in the business to have rather weak efficiency numbers. To what detriment is publishing great number, however you arrive at them. People love the Audi A8 as a luxury car but it is the worlds biggest carbon polluter...boasting something like 10.2 miles per gallon

I can tell you that it's not uncommon to have 300or even 500 temps flowing out of a pellet vent...just don't clean it....and that would go for the Palazzetti too I'm sure

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

The Fireplace Showcase, about 3 miles from me is the distributor and importer for Palazzetti. I think he may have sold his distribution though...

I wouldn't be so surprised to find some of the best names in the business to have rather weak efficiency numbers. To what detriment is publishing great number, however you arrive at them. People love the Audi A8 as a luxury car but it is the worlds biggest carbon polluter...boasting something like 10.2 miles per gallon

I can tell you that it's not uncommon to have 300or even 500 temps flowing out of a pellet vent...just don't clean it....and that would go for the Palazzetti too I'm sure

And to think that people get peeved when the ministers preach the gospel of a clean stove and vent system.

 

[moey]

I could believe it, pellet stoves compete with propane and oil its not much competition even with a inefficient model. The incentive to improve is not there especially when the US has terrible standards for measuring efficiency. One just has to look at AFUE is calculated and used in marketing.

 

[Phil Do's fire.]

The Fireplace Showcase, about 3 miles from me is the distributor and importer for Palazzetti. I think he may have sold his distribution though...

I wouldn't be so surprised to find some of the best names in the business to have rather weak efficiency numbers. To what detriment is publishing great number, however you arrive at them. People love the Audi A8 as a luxury car but it is the worlds biggest carbon polluter...boasting something like 10.2 miles per gallon

I can tell you that it's not uncommon to have 300or even 500 temps flowing out of a pellet vent...just don't clean it....and that would go for the Palazzetti too I'm sure

I spoke with Palazzetti distributer Adam B and parts are stocked in Mass. and several retailers selling them in my area. There here to stay according to Adam and Fireside showcase is selling and servicing the stove.

 

[Shaw520]

You want cast iron,... (broken link removed to http://newhaven.craigslist.org/for/3566645140.html)

 

[skibumm100]

....... and actually have a nice large heat exchanger that actually puts the heat into the room instead of up the flue would be another.

I like the way you think Smokey. The bigger, the better, within reason.

 

[smwilliamson]

I spoke with Palazzetti distributer Adam B and parts are stocked in Mass. and several retailers selling them in my area. There here to stay according to Adam and Fireside showcase is selling and servicing the stove.

Adam is an outside sales person, represents a lot of product

 

[smwilliamson]

You want cast iron,... (broken link removed to http://newhaven.craigslist.org/for/3566645140.html)

Yeah, the only thing cast on that is the door. You cannot weld cast together very well.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

I like the way you think Smokey. The bigger, the better, within reason.

The thing with heat exchangers is that you have to wash both sides with gases (in this case) and you need a decent temperature differential between the two sides to allow conduction to transfer the heat from what is on one side to the other at a decent rate through the exchanger.

Quite a bit of heat is still in the system even after shutdown has occurred in some stoves and a fraction of this can find its way up the flue.

 

[smwilliamson]

That there is k value

 

[stoveguy2esw]

The point I was trying to make is that a stove that consumes half as much pellets as another stove, while providing the same amount of BTUs of heat into a home, is twice as efficient.

Concerning the electrical consumption, the typical 80 to 100 watts of blower motor consumption is a small BTU contribution (3.4 BTU/Wx100W=340 BTUs) of the total heat energy into the home, as compared to the hot air output (from burning the wood), which ranges from 10,000 to 60,000 BTUs for a typical stove.

show me a stove which "outputs" 60Kbtu with an EPA certification unless it burns 9 lbs an hour its BS unless its 90+ % efficient in heat transfer its a lie

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

That there is k value

I call it an inefficiency but then I get disgusted at a lot of things.

But what really get me p*ssed off is that stupid 3 factor non measured formula that gets used to provide the efficiency figure attached to all but the certified stoves.

It is just one big assumption and leads to threads like this.

On the forum last night a fellow asked if he should use the mag setting in the manual or the lower setting that was sending a lot hotter air out of the stove. Several things came to mind, his meter wasn't quite accurate, he hadn't let the stove reach equilibrium, the manual was wrong, or he forgot the part that the damper setting is only a starting point and from there you use the trims to adjust for the fuel in the stove.

I chose to say nothing as I want to see the responses he gets.

It seems that a lot of folks forget the entire picture and home in on one little thing, things rarely work that way.