I didn't load up full this morning, so after 13 hrs. the stove temps. were as expected when I got home (cat @ 300, stove well under 200). I raked everything around, threw in a big handfull of cedar shake chunks, and started loading. Big splits of Aspen tonight, 'cause that was closer to the stove than everything else( I keep 1/2 a face cord under the stairs). I loaded full E/W but had to keep the door cracked to keep a good flame. By-pass was open, thermo. open full. Good flames after a minute ( the cedar touches off with a dirty look), and the flue hit 400 with no sweat. As soon as the CAT hit 500, I closed the by-pass. Temps continued to rise, and I could see the cat glow, so far so good. BUT, I had latched the door at about 450 on the CAT guage and the flames died out pretty quick. The large lower front split was blocking most of the air flow to the rest of the wood, and sorta choked it out. But temps were rising and cat was glowing, so no sweat, right?... Flash forward 10 min., swapping wiper blades on the car and come back in. Whoa- CAT is showing almost 2000, and the flue temp. is 1000. NO flames period. Open by-pass, turn thermo. open full-was on 2.5, and things cool down quick. Hope I didn't jack anything up, but amazing to me that it could get that hot, that quick with no flames visible.
BKK Overfire without.......Fire?
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I wonder if my by-pass has a leak? Could that be a possible reason for the excessive temps.? Sticky thermo.? I'm open to ideas. Thanks, JB
Beetle-Kill said:
Hi BK,
I'm wondering if the King's huge firebox, combined with possibly sappy wood, combined with a hot reload, combined with primary air blocked to most of the wood created a perfect storm of outgassing, and a smoke meal your cat ate at the expense of overheating?
Hey RenoGeorge, stove was pretty cold on reload. I had to rake and smack a few small chunks to bring 'em back to life before I threw on the cedar. The Aspen splits I loaded up with are dry. They don't have any sap to speak of when split, and these are desicated. While handling, they'll literally suck the moisture right out of your skin. I think I'm going to have to check the seal on the by-pass. When I cam the lever over and lock it, it feels solid. But I just checked the tension on it, and it felt like it closed a bit more with a hair more pressure. The by-pass handle has some slop to it. This may be normal, but it doesn't feel right. I'm still learning this thing, but I am pretty sure I need to adjust something, somewhere. May be an expansion/contraction thing with the steel, I'll check it if I get some time off. That would explain my flue temps. also.
Beetle-Kill said:
Good point about the flue temps perhaps indicating a leaking bypass.
But this problem might be independent, because a leaking bypass would tend to heat the flue but cool the cat, right? And your cat was leading the race to Hell? I'm still thinking smoke overload, with a reload and the fire effectively out. Maybe you engaged the cat too soon, and should have let that huge blast of smoke clear first? Or rearrange the splits for not so much smolder?
I'm just throwing out ideas--they may be bad.
I'd check the door gasket too--I'm sure you have already.
I'm glad it wasn't worse. I understand how things can surprise you when you're still learning.
Damn my insomnia. I don't know who leads who, in the "race to Hell", but the CAT temps. will always be higher than the flue temps. all things considered. I'm leaning towards minor adjustment right now. All this happened on a cold stove, and now- after a few hours of "hotness", everything is where it should be, and I have the most gorgeous blue flames coming off of the wood. Off to bed for me. Thanks, JB
Ah, I'm a night owl myself.
Yeah, I certainly agree only minor adjustments are in order. I'm betting that this was an extreme case, that you won't let happen again. Have a great night.
Yeah, I certainly agree only minor adjustments are in order. I'm betting that this was an extreme case, that you won't let happen again. Have a great night.
I am new to wood burning, and this is my first year trying my hand at it. So, I doubt I have much to offer, but I'll submit my experience so far.
As for the cat temp soaring, I have had the exact same thing happen a few times...I have to turn the stove fan on to keep it under control...even then, sometimes it gets up there around the 2,000* mark...I don't monitor flue temp, so I can't offer anything there.
What I do most of the time is, get the fire going good before I fully latch the door...get the whole firebox aflame, to char most of the wood...engage the cat at around 600*...turn down the t'stat to my comfort level when the cat temp reaches around 800* - 1000*. I realize the instructions say to reduce the t'stat in stages, but whenever I do, the cat temp spikes after a few minutes...perhaps I'm doing something wrong when that happens. Doing it my way, the cat temp seems to settle, once it reaches somewhere around the 1300* - 1600* mark, without the need to run the fan...most of the time, occasionally it spikes and I have to turn the fan on to cool it back down.
I rarely leave the stove until it has settled out and started cruising smoothly...which usually takes about 1/2 hour - 45 minutes.
This was probably no help, but I thought I would share it anyway.
As for the cat temp soaring, I have had the exact same thing happen a few times...I have to turn the stove fan on to keep it under control...even then, sometimes it gets up there around the 2,000* mark...I don't monitor flue temp, so I can't offer anything there.
What I do most of the time is, get the fire going good before I fully latch the door...get the whole firebox aflame, to char most of the wood...engage the cat at around 600*...turn down the t'stat to my comfort level when the cat temp reaches around 800* - 1000*. I realize the instructions say to reduce the t'stat in stages, but whenever I do, the cat temp spikes after a few minutes...perhaps I'm doing something wrong when that happens. Doing it my way, the cat temp seems to settle, once it reaches somewhere around the 1300* - 1600* mark, without the need to run the fan...most of the time, occasionally it spikes and I have to turn the fan on to cool it back down.
I rarely leave the stove until it has settled out and started cruising smoothly...which usually takes about 1/2 hour - 45 minutes.
This was probably no help, but I thought I would share it anyway.
Sometimes conditions can be just right for the cat to take off on you with a smouldering smokey fire. I've seen it on my stove a few times. Usually it's caused by turning my air down too low too soon and everything goes black in the fire box except the cat which turns brilliant red. Temps will rise in my stove pipe and reach overfire on stove top. To prevent this I usually engage at a higher air setting and let it burn for 15-30 minutes before turning it down for a low slow burn but still like to keep some red in the coals and a flicker of flame in the box. I wouldn't worry too much about this happening from time to time but if it happens consistently you may have a problem or maybe need to change loading techniques.
A similar thing happened to my wife yesterday. There wasn't flame in the firebox but the cat temp hit about 1800.
When you push by pass down push it again to make full contact, it will go down a littler further making a better seal.
Check the door gasket using the dollar bill test, you may need to tighten the door latch catch.
My cat has gone 2000, do you have a fan that you could run to cool?
Check the door gasket using the dollar bill test, you may need to tighten the door latch catch.
My cat has gone 2000, do you have a fan that you could run to cool?
Me thinks this has something to do with a "full tank" of fuel........I now hesitate especially when loading NS to really pack my Equinox for the same reason you are describing. When really full of good dry hardwood, once the initial burn takes, even set on low my stove can make me more than a little nervous. Temps. shoot up and stay there, it's scary to think if I had to calm this thing down I have very few options. The difference we have is I have no lack of flame.......Heck I've got out of bed to see who left the light on only to find the stove is out there having it's way with a good sized load of wood and for a while at least turning night into day.
A crammed full load of dry poplar in my Eq........yup there is a fire I would want to babysit.
A crammed full load of dry poplar in my Eq........yup there is a fire I would want to babysit.
I replaced the factory temp probe with a Condar that has numbers on it, and my cat temp regularly goes up to around 2,000F, even when the stat dial is set in the higher side of the normal range (about 2 1/4), and with the fans on medium-high. Like posted before, when there are random rolling ghost flames in the top of the firebox, the cat temp climbs high. If I set the stat to the lower side in the normal range, all flame disappears and the cat temp is usually below the "too hot" marking on the probe, but not always. This morning with a full load of hard maple and the stat set exactly on 2 and fans on high, I had 1,900F on the cat with no flame, and a surface temp of 680F. The surface temp easily strays towards 750F from time to time when the cat is very hot. I have double wall connector pipe and don't have a probe in it, so I don't know my flue temps. I hope the regular excursions to 2,000F don't prematurely wear out the catalyst.
I found that with a fresh load (with good coal bed) I can keep the cat temps out of the Too hot range by starting with the t-stat in the middle position ( 3 o'clock) and then lower it 1/4 right after the wood darkens. My understanding is that it doesn't do your cat any good having temps above 1500. We do not have number on PI so I cannot relate to the numbers you guys are saying for t-stats.
Lanning said:
Thanks for all the reports!
Would it help keep the cat cooler if you make sure you are well burned down and relatively cool (but still have enough for reliable ignition) before putting a full load in the box? It sounds like the big burst of outgassing on big hot reloads can overheat the cat?
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