Blaze King Ashford Issues

[wyoung9074]

Hey All,​

Anyone in here very familiar with cat stoves, particularly blaze kings?

Ive had two small chimney fires and I'm terrified of this thing. I clean the chimney once a month. Its a double wall pipe to double wall stainless. Roughly 16 feet straight up. I remove the inside pipe and clean above the bypass too.

Wood is all hardwood, under 20% moisture per my meter. It seems to happen when I drop out of the active zone and reload when it's still warm. Cat is old but still working well, new door gasket. Bypass gasket is in need of replacement but isn't bad enough its not functional.

I reload by opening the air and the bypass, waiting a minute, slowly opening the door, filling the box, and leaving the bypass open until it reaches active again.

However, before it reaches active again I get loud crinkling noises from the chimney. I walked outside, saw white smoke, heard two pops, and saw a splash of orange at the chimney cap. I shut the bypass and air. It settled down and the I kept bypass shut and turned the air back up to get it burning and it worked completely fine.

Again this morning from cold startup, I put a few pieces of wood in the stove and lit it. Before going active, I got the creosote burning smell and crinkling in the chimney. I took some photos. This can't keep happening or I'm going to burn my house down. I'm terrified of this stove. The installer wants 265/hr from the time they leave their shop over half an hour away and until they get back to talk to me. Please help.
I have a 3 year old and two dogs. I need some advice on this thing if possible.

 

[begreen]

The first thing is to verify the wood is dry inside. Is the moisture content being tested after being re-split and tested on the freshly exposed face of the wood? If testing just the end grain, the results can be in error. Wood dries from the outside in. It takes longer to dry the interior of the split. Testing the end grain can often be 5-10% lower than the inside of the split if the wood is not fully seasoned.

When testing, bring a few thick splits indoors for several hours to warm it up. Then, re-split. Test in the middle of the freshly exposed face of the wood, with the pins parallel to the grain. Press in the pins firmly.

 

[stoveliker]

Did you bring the wood in the home, let it warm up for 24 hrs, then resplit it and measure on the freshly exposed surface in the middle?

If not,.your wood is not 20% but far far too wet.

Second how do you know the cat is working?
How old is it (and how many days do you burn in a season)?

 

[wyoung9074]

Wood is split and check in middle, top, and bottom of splits. Usually 12-15%. I dont usually bring them in for 24 hours first, although the last few I checked did come from inside and were there over 24 hours.

Cat still stays active long term. It doesnt have trouble keeping temp, but I did just talk to blaze king on the phone and I think they're going to warranty the cat. Maybe that was the problem?

I'm curious if the black glazing of creosote is normal in the flue. Should I be concerned with trying to have that removed? I'm not sure this is a cat issue because it occurs when the cat is bypassed.

 

[stoveliker]

The issue is glazed creosote.
In bypassed mode, flame enters the flue and starts burning that creosote. Aka a chimney fire.

You are depositing creosote and that is either because your cat is not doing its thing or because the wood is too wet.

Are the pins deep into the wood when you measure?

 

[wyoung9074]

As deep as I can Press them in. Maybe im not pressing hard enough? Should it be flush with the meter?

The cat is nearly ten years old. Blaze kings customer service might be able to warranty my cat.

How do I clean the glaze? Totally new pipe?

 

[Highbeam]

During those 10 years(!), how many days per year do you burn? Like are you burning October through may?

 

[wyoung9074]

I burn October to April. Ive only owned the stove 3 years. I suspect the last owner wasn't very diligent on wood quality or maintenance.

 

[stoveliker]

At that age, I suspect the cat.
Do you see smoke when you are running with no flame?

 

[wyoung9074]

I typically get smoke when the cat is running with the air fully open for a bit in the beginning. Once I turn the air down, I get little to no smoke. Sometimes, I'll get some white smoke in the beginning of the burn, but most of the burn is smokeless once turned down for the night.

I plan on replacing the cat, the thermometer, and the bypass gasket.

My main concern at this point is do I need new pipes? How do I remove the glazed creosote? I don't want to continue feeling unsafe burning wood to heat my house.

 

[spudman99]

We are coming to the end of the burning season, perhaps 30 days or so (although 75 deg next week will be a nice change). I suggest the following to reduce your anxiety. I note you have 3 years with this stove so you are not a novice, and I wonder if you had these issues over those prior periods.

1. Warranty the CAT. If not purchase a new one. Small cost for updating a consumable. Also eliminate one point of possible worry.
2. Get your flue professionally cleaned. I know you sweep it frequently, but having a professional get up and close, and also reach areas you might not should hopefully eliminate any dangerous creosote if it exists.
3. Bypass gasket is not as critical and can be replaced in the summer. Get the materials, read up on its replacement and plan on doing that this year.
4. You keep seeing above comments on wet wood. Creosote needs moisture to form. That comes from wet wood. We are not nagging, just ruling out a major issue. How long has your wood be seasoned, how do you store it and what species are you typically burning?

You are right to be cautious and anxious. To me you may not be in danger of a fire but stay here, there are many highly knowledgeable folks willing to help.

 

[wyoung9074]

My wood is 2 years old at this point. It's mixed hardwood, mostly oak, hickory, and birch. It is cut and split, stacked on pallets, and covered with a tarp. One thing on my list is to determine a better way to store said wood.

I currently have a large pile of cut wood that's needing split. That wood is uncovered. I typically have a year's worth of wood before I need it. For example, the wood I burned this year was cut, split, and stacked for over a year. If the weather breaks, I have more than half of next year's wood stacked already. I do need a wood shed and log splitter, as I will be splitting by hand and there are only so many hours in a day.

 

[kborndale]

Is it fully covered with a tarp? That is not good for drying, also wood does not start drying until it is split so your wood has only been drying for a year. That is not long enough for oak or hickory. Leave a couple pieces inside for a day, take them back outdide, grab an ax and resplit them then check moisture content on the freshly split piece.

 

[stoveliker]

Regarding the flue, glazed creosote will likely need a professional (with chemicals) to remove.

 

[wyoung9074]

Top only is covered by tarp, allowing air flow. I have tested several pieces of oak. They're measuring 12-15% in the middle.

To rectify, I'm going to try to split the rest of my wood this season and let it sit. I need to build a wood crib. I'd attempt to buy "seasoned" splits for next season, but I've found firewood services to be unreliable in their assessment of "seasoned."

Again, I think my biggest issue is removing the glaze of creosote. I Just brush the chimney. I've called several sweeps, one of which did nothing and took 275 dollars. others are not taking new clients or are not returning my calls.

 

[wyoung9074]

Would I see improvement if I just replace the bottom 4 feet, the interior double wall stove pipe, with new? There would still be creosote in the class a pipe.

 

[wyoung9074]

Also, I'm not getting hissing or creosote on the glass badly. Wouldn't that be typical of wet wood?

 

[stoveliker]

your wood can be too wet and not hiss.
Creosote on the glass depends more on the airflow of the airwash than on whether wood is wet or not.
Dry wood (as in 4-5 year old red oak, under a rood without walls for 3.5 years of that time and off the ground tarp covered before that) can get my glass black with creosote if I run low. Then there's not enough air flow to push the gases away from the cold glass and it condenses.

Also, water is a (large) byproduct of combustion, so even with dry wood, you're pushing many pounds of water up the flue at each burn. So water is present.

If you have a properly working cat, you can have lots of creosote in the box/window, but the cat cleans it up and the pipe is clean.

Now if your cat does not drop out of the active range easily, maybe something else is happening.

How tall is your flue? Too much draft can suck the gases thru the cat too fast for the cat to combust everything.

 

[wyoung9074]

Roughly 16 feet straight.

 

[Tron]

I'd recommend to dry it split for at least two years, but that depends a bit on the wood species and the climate.
I used to build silos out of rebar mesh topped with a tarp, that worked great. But now that I have a tractor I'll switch to totes, eliminates emptying the silo and loading the storage at the house.
The nice thing about them is that if you cut the plastic bladder diagonally and save one half, it makes the perfect roof for the wood in the tote.

Not my picture but this is what it looks like. I've additionally drilled holes along the edge to tie the roof to the tote.

 

[stoveliker]

Roughly 16 feet straight.

ok. That's not an issue then.

To sum up, having glazed creosote needs

- smoke particles in the flue (so either a cat that does not work well, is overwhelmed by too much "cat food" due to wet wood, or one where the gases flow too fast - the latter is not likely here)
- water. That's always present in combustion products, but gets more fast when wood is wetter.
- a cool flue; below 212 F water condenses, capturing smoke particles, leading to creosote deposits.

If the cat is good and the wood is dry enough, one would not expect sufficient particles to be in the flue for such creosote deposits.
Yet, even when that is not good enough, one can minimize deposits by keeping the flue hot enough (all the way to the top) so that water does not condense.

 

[wyoung9074]

I appreciate the photo. I have a crate like that. I was planning to use it for a different project, but maybe this would be a better one.

In the interim until I'm ahead on wood... what do I do for heat? I'm kind of stuck. I need to burn the wood, but if it's not seasoned correctly how do I move forward?

 

[stoveliker]

one can buy pallets of sawdust bricks. Though you have to be careful that it's only sawdust. No binders, wax, or melamine (I had some recently...). Bad for the cat to have anything else.

Costs though.
For next year, get some pine, spruce, fir split and stacked in this spring. That'll be good next year.
And get the stuff (maple, cherry, beech) for the year after.
And oak and hickory for the year after that.

It's a lot of work - but only once. Once you're three years ahead, you only need to replace what. you burned each year.

 

[wyoung9074]

First off, I need to thank everyone for taking the time to assist. I truly appreciate it. I'm trying to troubleshoot this and continue to run the stove. This has been a huge help.

Stoveliker, I'm going to replace the cat, bypass gasket, and cat thermometer. I'm going to attempt to find a professional cleaning for the flue. I'm going to try and work on seasoned wood.

Your last point: should I run the stove a bit hotter and sacrifice burn time? How do I know if my flue cooling to much is at play here?

 

[wyoung9074]

Another question: If I can't end up warrantying my cat, what's the quality of the cats from midwest hearth? They're substantially less expensive