Block off plate and insulated liner, local installers don't want to do..

[MikeStaten]

I've called several local installers and they don't seem to want to do the block plate or insulate the liner, saying both are not necessary.

Based on the posts here, it seem that these would make a lot of sense and almost be mandatory. Am I missing something?

One installer wants $1,500 to install a Vermont Castings Montpelier with no block off plate and uninsulated ss liner. He wants $1,900 with no block off plate but will do a doublewall insulated liner for the additional $400.

I'm starting to lean towards just doing the job myself but not sure what the best brand of liner is and also whether I should buy a doublewall liner with insulation between the two or insulate it myself. Would seem the premade insulated liner would be easier to work with. Also, is plane 20 gauge stainless steel sheet metal ok for me to build a block off plate out of? Do you stuff Roxul up around the liner before putting the block off plate in?

Thanks again for all of the help, I appreciate it.

Mike

 

[Fivehorizons88]

I ran into the same problem - most installers either don't think it is necessary or simply won't do it. I am currently working on doing my own right now. There are several good posts here that show step by step instructions on how to create one.

Stainless steel would be ideal, which is what I used (bought from McMaster Carr). Other guys have used galvanized sheet metal. Also, Roxul is used a lot to stuff up into the damper area before putting the plate in place - that will help a lot of with heat loss.

 

[MikeStaten]

Thank you. I have plenty of stainless sheet metal so I will use that for the blockoff. Anyone use the Forever Flex pre-insulated stainless liner? I'm leaning towards pre-insulated liners as it seems that would be considerably easier to feed down the chimney than regular liner wrapped with insulation. Any other preinsulated liners that are decent or should I consider a regular liner with the insulation wrapped around it?

 

[gzecc]

I've called several local installers and they don't seem to want to do the block plate or insulate the liner, saying both are not necessary.

Based on the posts here, it seem that these would make a lot of sense and almost be mandatory. Am I missing something?

One installer wants $1,500 to install a Vermont Castings Montpelier with no block off plate and uninsulated ss liner. He wants $1,900 with no block off plate but will do a doublewall insulated liner for the additional $400.

I'm starting to lean towards just doing the job myself but not sure what the best brand of liner is and also whether I should buy a doublewall liner with insulation between the two or insulate it myself. Would seem the premade insulated liner would be easier to work with. Also, is plane 20 gauge stainless steel sheet metal ok for me to build a block off plate out of? Do you stuff Roxul up around the liner before putting the block off plate in?

Thanks again for all of the help, I appreciate it.

Mike

Is your chimney interior to the structure or mounted on an exterior wall?

 

[Fivehorizons88]

Also, what is the dimensions of your existing flue?

 

[stovelark]

Block off plates are something a lot of installers are reluctant to shift their paradigm and want to do them. Its not always called for in some stove manuals (though some do mention them...), it takes a bit more time and effort on the install side too. A lot of building officials here are getting onboard with requiring them, they are worth the extra effort. I think we will slowly see a shift to it being the norm in the next few years.

 

[MikeStaten]

My chimney is on the exterior. It's brick with clay lined flue. I'll need to take an exact measurement of the flue. The VC Montpelier doesn't specifically reference a block off plate in the manual.

 

[mellow]

Also look into insulating your fireplace since it is exterior.

I would have a sweep professionally clean the chimney and do the insulated liner install, you can have them stop work and you insulate the fireplace and install the block off plate and have them come back to hookup the insert.

 

[begreen]

He wants $1,900 with no block off plate but will do a doublewall insulated liner for the additional $400.

Is that an insulation wrapped 2 ply liner or a liner with the insulation between the two plys?
The dealer is right, the block-off plate is not necessary, nor is a heater necessary in a car, but it's a nice improvement. See if you can find a certified sweep that is used to installing a block off plate.

 

[bholler]

I would have a sweep professionally clean the chimney and do the insulated liner install, you can have them stop work and you insulate the fireplace and install the block off plate and have them come back to hookup the insert.

you do realize having them stop work in the middle of an install is going to cost allot more money right?

 

[excessads]

I am in Somerset county as well, Flue Tech came out install the insert for about the same price think it was another $200 something like that to wrap the liner. They were hesitant as well to install block off plate. I had it done without the plate, I can smell some soot smell when it's damp. The chimney was swept twice the smell is probably come from the fireplace. Do not make the same mistake I did, clean your fireplace thoroughly before install anything, and ensure you follow manufacturer's manual for clearances before you install/order the stove otherwise the town may cite you for code violation (if you decided to get permit).

 

[bholler]

Do not make the same mistake I did, clean your fireplace thoroughly before install anything,

You had it professionally installed and they did not clean it first? A blockoff plate is not required and is not industry standard. Many installers have never done one and are going to hesitant to do it. That being said it is always a good idea to install one. And I feel insulation is an absolute must for a wood stove.

 

[excessads]

They knocked the creosote off in the fireplace, but not a deep scrub....

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[jscs.moore]

I've called several local installers and they don't seem to want to do the block plate or insulate the liner, saying both are not necessary.

Based on the posts here, it seem that these would make a lot of sense and almost be mandatory. Am I missing something?

One installer wants $1,500 to install a Vermont Castings Montpelier with no block off plate and uninsulated ss liner. He wants $1,900 with no block off plate but will do a doublewall insulated liner for the additional $400.

I'm starting to lean towards just doing the job myself but not sure what the best brand of liner is and also whether I should buy a doublewall liner with insulation between the two or insulate it myself. Would seem the premade insulated liner would be easier to work with. Also, is plane 20 gauge stainless steel sheet metal ok for me to build a block off plate out of? Do you stuff Roxul up around the liner before putting the block off plate in?

Thanks again for all of the help, I appreciate it.

Mike

Yeah...same thing happened to me when I had my insert installed last year. I was out right dismissed on the block off plate and had to fight with them to get the insulated liner installed. One of the techs was wrestling the pre-insulated liner (that I insisted on) on to the roof at the install and actually said to me out of frustration..."you didn't need an insulated liner." After burning one season and reading this site almost daily and came to the conclusion that since I have a 28ft exterior chimney I was likely losing heat up the chimney so I called them and insisted on a block off plate installation and made clear I would pay for it. After some back and forth they agreed. However, at the time of the block off plate installation, the same tech stood in my living room and adamantly told my wide and I "this isn't going to do anything...we sealed the chimney at the top last year and your NOT losing any heat into the masonry!" My wife actually couldn't believe they as paying customers for the BOP...the tech actually said that to us. I can only conclude after reading so many posts like yours that dealers just want to basically slam it in and get on to the next install. Sorry to all the top notch pros out the like bholler and others who take the time to do the job right the first time! But this is my perception from most of the posts I've read here over the last year!

 

[jetsam]

I paid a kerjillion dollars for a professional install before I found hearth.com.

This year I pulled out the professional install and reinstalled it correctly.

Wish I'd researched THAT before paying for it!

 

[redyute]

I paid a kerjillion dollars for a professional install before I found hearth.com.

This year I pulled out the professional install and reinstalled it correctly.

Wish I'd researched THAT before paying for it!

I just did my install from researching here now I just have to fab up a block off plate but will let the hook up get inspected before I do it.

 

[jetsam]

"this isn't going to do anything...we sealed the chimney at the top last year and your NOT losing any heat into the masonry!"

Well, there is an easily fact-checked statement.

Go get an (broken link removed) (you should probably have one anyway), and compare the temps of your chimney at the bottom, middle, and top to the temp of some bricks elsewhere on the exterior.

At about 0°F house surface temp last year, my chimney was 80°F in spots. I daresay it will be a bit cooler this year!

 

[excessads]

Now may be the perfect time to ask, since the connection between the liner and the insert is covered with cement. For circular insert outlet, how is it normally and safely connected to the liner? a hose clamp? I am just wondering if I can disconnect, scrub the fireplace, and then reconnect myself without damaging the liner?

 

[redyute]

With this

 

[Hogwildz]

Insulate the liner, and install the block off plate. Anyone that says it doesn't make a difference, or you don't need it is a numbnutz. It is documented quite well, many times, the many members that started without one, wondering where that cold draft was coming from, or why they only felt heat standing directly in front of their stove, only to find a huge difference after installing a plate. And yes, the masonry will transfer that heat out to the open very easily. Same scenario as heating from an uninsulated basement. Masonry sucks up heat, and transfers it very well. That is the theory of masonry heaters.

No it isn't mandatory, but easy insurance to keep the heat in your house where it belongs.

 

[branchburner]

Block off plates are something a lot of installers are reluctant to shift their paradigm -- , it takes a bit more time and effort on the install side.

What I find odd about this, from a retail perspective, is that it amounts to a potential up-sell... what service provider doesn't like customers to request additional services that can generate additional revenue? It seems pretty easy to calculate the man-hours and materials required for insulation, block-offs -- and whatever else -- and then mark up the costs of labor and materials and make additional profit, if the customer is interested.

Imagine car dealers trying to talk you OUT of undercoating and other options or service appointments!

 

[bholler]

What I find odd about this, from a retail perspective, is that it amounts to a potential up-sell... what service provider doesn't like customers to request additional services that can generate additional revenue? It seems pretty easy to calculate the man-hours and materials required for insulation, block-offs -- and whatever else -- and then mark up the costs of labor and materials and make additional profit, if the customer is interested.

The problem is you can make more money slapping in a couple stoves with bare liners a day than doing one good install.

 

[begreen]

And the problem is they don't pay the cost of inefficiency, the homeowner does.

 

[cookin2night]

Just get a friend and do the install yourself. After researching this forum and watching a couple of YouTube videos you should be able to manage this. As long as you can physically do it.

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[stovelark]

Well guys lets be fair. Not everyone wants to even pay for the liner itself, I hear it everyday "they didn't know it was gonna cost that much." A lot of folks just want to do the chimney starter connection, not a full length liner, that their chimney "is big and it drafts great". Explaining that it needs a liner for draft purposes still gets looks. When you start adding additional costs for customers, they get more wary. Don't know how it is around the country, but sales here have been slow to sluggish, low energy costs, warm weather and lack of funds have suppressed things here in CT so far, for us anyway. Maybe everyone is being entertained (or being disgusted) by our politicians. Anyway, everybody keep warm.