Boxer 24 Questions

[Wildalaska]

Hello Everyone,
I am looking at Purchasing a Boxer 24, I have searched extensively but can not find many reviews and was looking to get some answers.

I am considering the boxer 24 for the long burn times so my question primarily is what are some realistic burn times you have experienced on both Low and High output .

I am open to recommendations as well.

My situation : I live in an off grid cabin in Alaska where temperatures reach south of negative 60 degrees F , the cabin is 12x28. With the acceptation of a 4x4 window and door, the house is extremely well insulated with a combination of faced insulation and spray foam, 2x6 construction. We have a 30k BTU propane furnace that keeps it plenty warm without running constantly even on the coldest of days. Our current wood burner is over kill and EATS wood.

My Primary Goal is to consume less wood and have very long burn times, I would prefer not to load the stove more than 2 times a day.

Id love to hear any and all information related to your experiences with the Boxer 24 and if you think this would be sufficient for my needs .

Thank you very much for your time and information as it is greatly appreciated .

 

[stoveliker]

I don't have a boxer, but a Chinook.
If your 30k BTU furnace does the job (and does not have to run continuously at the coldest days), this stove should work for you imo.

How tall is your chimney?
As you do have a stove, I presume you know that the heat needs to be distributed to farther rooms - it's not a propane furnace with infrastructure to do so.

What is the current stove?

 

[Wildalaska]

I don't have a boxer, but a Chinook.
If your 30k BTU furnace does the job (and does not have to run continuously at the coldest days), this stove should work for you imo.

How tall is your chimney?
As you do have a stove, I presume you know that the heat needs to be distributed to farther rooms - it's not a propane furnace with infrastructure to do so.

What is the current stove?

Hello and thank you for the information !

My chimney off top my head I would say is about 13 feet total maybe a bit more.

My Propane stove is a on the wall Ventless one so it does not push air. But yes I am aware that the air needs to be circulated

I am over seas at the moment and don't know the make and model off top my head , but I will attach a photo of it. It is an older one with fire brick , it sucks, full load burns out in 2-3 hours no matter what you do. The heat stays in the cabin for 6-8 hours after it goes out so the insulation is on point tho haha


For your Chinook , is it the 20 or 30 model? how many times a day do you have to feed it ? and what temperature are you fighting ?

 

[stoveliker]

13 ft would be too short. If no elbows (and near sea level), you need 15 ft minimum - modern stoves generally need more draft to suck the flow thru the pathway that provides the higher efficiency (and cleaner burn), be it baffles or a cat).

I have a 30.2.
I have not loaded 3 full loads per day.
Most winter here (but that is almost summer by your standards...) I run one load of 16 hrs then a baby load to get to my evening full reload again.

Worst I have seen is 10 hrs at 10 F with howling wind.

My home has good windows and attic insulation, but the walls are mediocre (1977 original...)
I have 1700 sqft that I heat from an additional 825 sqft basement. The latter is less efficient than having the stove in the living room.

@Poindexter is in Alaska and runs a BK. He may be able to help with his experience.

 

[stoveliker]

Oh, and regardless of what stove you get, if it is a modern one, you'll need to relearn burning. They are different. But you'll use less wood. Likely significantly so. And have longer burn times.

Note tho that burn time increases for a given fuel load will necessarily be associated with a lower heat output; fixed amount of BTUs in a load, spread out over many or less hours.

Do check the moisture content of your wood. It *needs* to be below 20 pct. You'll*not* be happy with a BK if it is not.

Poindexter knows about drying in your climate too.

And nice dogs!

 

[Wildalaska]

Oh, and regardless of what stove you get, if it is a modern one, you'll need to relearn burning. They are different. But you'll use less wood. Likely significantly so. And have longer burn times.

Note tho that burn time increases for a given fuel load will necessarily be associated with a lower heat output; fixed amount of BTUs in a load, spread out over many or less hours.

Do check the moisture content of your wood. It *needs* to be below 20 pct. You'll*not* be happy with a BK if it is not.

Poindexter knows about drying in your climate too.

And nice dogs!

Thank you very much for all the fantastic information , I really appreciate it , it has been tremendously helpful.

 

[Poindexter]

My Primary Goal is to consume less wood and have very long burn times, I would prefer not to load the stove more than 2 times a day.

To meet these goals you will be getting less BTU per hour out of the stove.

Can you tell us how much propane AND how much cord wood you used last year to keep your home comfortable?

Once we have your total energy use for the season we should be able to say "You could buy stove X, you will need Y number of seasoned cords of wood fuel ready to go to load it twice daily, and over the winter you will probably still use about Z propane.

 

[Wildalaska]

To meet these goals you will be getting less BTU per hour out of the stove.

Can you tell us how much propane AND how much cord wood you used last year to keep your home comfortable?

Once we have your total energy use for the season we should be able to say "You could buy stove X, you will need Y number of seasoned cords of wood fuel ready to go to load it twice daily, and over the winter you will probably still use about Z propane.

Hello,

Propane: I use between 200 - 300 pounds or 46 - 69 Gallons a month in the cold months using propane full time no wood. The higher of the ratio being keeping the house tropical hot. this is with a 30k BTU Ventless wall heater ( Think Buddy heater kinda unit ) . However, Majority of these heat stays in the ceiling area incredibly hot and for a great period of time , I have not yet installed a fan to push the heat down from the ceiling area , when I do this Im guess it will significantly lower my propane usage, at any given time in my loft its well over 100 degrees.

Wood Burning: hard to say, Id say maybe 6 cords mixed with propane use. But the reason for that is because it will burn a full load of wood in 2.5 hours and be reduced to ashes. Generally when its -60 F and im running the wood burner I leave a window open or frequently open the door to compensate for the heat out put as our current unit is way over sized and was previously used for a 1600 square foot home. ( its what I was able to get at the time, used)

The heat will last for 6 hours or so when I keep the windows closed. The problem is, with the windows closed the hole time its like hotter than hell in addition to if I don't stoke it or re load it every 2 to 2 n a half hours I have to restart a new fire from scratch witch not to sound lazy but is extreamly inconvenient.

I would Estimate that 10-15k Btu would sufficiently heat my place at low range acceptable level. I base this guess on the fact that I can keep my Place sufficiently warm with a 10k-15k BTU buddy heater( Think ice fishing shanty heater).

I leave the house frequently, and in the winter a few hour trip can easily turn into an 8 hour or even an over night trip in my location. So it would be nice to have something that can keep the house sufficiently warm for prolonged periods of time while im gone as apossed to rushing home to stoke the fire then leaving again or coming home to a house thats an ice box.

My ideal goal would be if I can run 2 -3 loads max a day and keep the place at 70 degrees id be the happiest person alive !

additionally if I could use 3 cords of wood & 450 pounds of propane that would be a fantastic achievement.

a note on insulation , My place is very well insulated minus a 4x4 standard rated window, and a standard door. insulation is a combination of faced and spray foam. As well as an entirely sealed with spray foam floor, all 2x6 construction.

Thanks for your time and information !

 

[Poindexter]

Wood Burning: hard to say, Id say maybe 6 cords mixed with propane use. B

I would say running 6 cords annually through a Boxer 24 would be a chore and you should look at a bigger stove. The Boxer uses the same internals as the 25 series BK fireplace inserts. They are wide at the front, but the sidewalls taper inwards, so the back wall is not as wide as the front wall. Pushing 6 cords a year through that firebox is going to be a time consuming chore, even if the output (on paper) looks suitable.

If you get one, you will hate having to load it before Thanksgiving. I do like the Boxer for 'small' well insulated cabins near Fairbanks, in the 12x16 to 16x20 range- that can maybe get away with buring 2-3 cords a year. At six cords, I would want to be loading full length splits side to side and top to bottom every time, not screwing around with an oddly shaped firebox.

I would Estimate that 10-15k Btu would sufficiently heat my place at low range acceptable level

Also useful. In a new tab I internet searched "Blaze King" and then selected the "wood stoves" direct link. then, each in a new tab, I opened a 20.2 sized box, a 30.2 sized box, the Princess 32 and the King 40. So four more tabs. If you got dial up go have a beer or something.

Paging across these 4 models - all the "20.2" boxes have different skins, but the same firebox, same with the 30.2 boxes....

The 20.2 box is rated for 11k BTU/hr on low, and 28kBTU/hr on high, and I don't much care for this size though it might work well here.
The 30.2 box is rated for 12-36k/BTU per hour low/high
The Princess is rated 12.5-37k BTU/ hr low/high
The King (requires 8" diameter chimney) is rated 14-48kBTU/hr, so bigger than you need.

The Bx24 (new tab) 10-30kBTU/hr.

What I see is any of the 20, 30 or 32 sized BK boxes could meet your BTU / hour needs. As you go up in size you are buying a bigger and bigger fuel tank - more time between reloads at whatever output. When you step up from the Boxer into a 20-30-Princess you get a rectangular fire box that can take full length splits corner to corner to corner.

If you are going with a BK, you need your wood for next winter split and stacked right now. Like go bust it out full time and have it done by May first. If you are in the interior, splits you have stacked off the ground and top covered (you can use 4" diameter spruce poles to get it off the ground) on May first should be ready to go (if they are top covered) on Sept 15. Birch in the round (not split) is not seasoning and does not count. If you must, split all your birch at least once right away so it can start seasoning, and then go back through the pile and split it down to stove size. Big splits is good, but you will want some smalls to fill the gaps as you are loading.

All the new EPA certified stoves run best with wood at or under 20% MC. If you have split, stacked off the ground and top covered on may 1 in the interior you will be fine. If you are up in the Brooks Range, maybe sooner. Get it done. I had all my wood for next winter stacked on March 17th this year because we had a hard winter and I burnt it all, so all my sheds were ready to be filled.

I am going to now tag @begreen , he is our resident guru for keeping up with all the stoves from all the manufacturers. To me, this looks like a slam dunk for BK as any of the 20-30-32 sized fireboxes can do the job from low to high just by twiddling the knob on the side of the stove. If there is another stove out there from some other mfr that can do the job, begreen is one of the folks who knows which stove that is.

FWIW I ass/u/me you have 6" diameter chimney pipe.

I would be prepared to buy another 2 feet of chimney to take you up to 15' total, but I would wait and see how the stove runs in deep winter with what you have before you add more pipe. If you want to run any of these low and slow when outdoor temps are +45dF, you are going to want 18-20 feet of total stack height. At -60 you want a shorter stack, like 13-15 feet, so the stove doesn't melt from having excessive draft. Once you have your stack height dialed in to run full throttle at -60; in the spring and fall just load half a box of fuel, or a third of a box, run it on high because you don't have a lot of draft to work with, let it burn out, and then light up another partial load tomorrow night.

Good luck and best wishes.

 

[begreen]

Nothing to add except that I like a squarer firebox that loads either N/S or E/W and this reinforces Pointdexter's recommendations. There is also the big Regency 3500 if you are seeking an alternative cat stove. It works on a 6" flue and the Woodstock Ideal Steel if interested in a hybrid, but I think the shipping cost would be stiff.

 

[Poindexter]

It has occured to me to reveal my bias.

The first time I bought a gallon of gas, it was 48.9 cents per gallon. Carter was in the White House. I was too young to drive, filling a one gallon can to support my lawn mowing business. I gave the girl at the register a quarter and two dimes, my can was nearly full. I paid $5.199 a couple days ago, and I needed 15 gallons, so 15 Lincolns and 30 dimes.

Any of a 20-30-32 sized box should allow the OP to meet at or near 100% of his heating needs with no propane use, if he has enough seasoned wood on hand.

I request five seconds of silence. Please listen very carefully for the noises of nature coming through your office window. 1-2-3-4-5. Did you hear that? That was the sound of trees growing, the earth yielding her increase, while the price of propane was going up.

I am starting a new thread rather than derail this one.

 

[Wildalaska]

I would say running 6 cords annually through a Boxer 24 would be a chore and you should look at a bigger stove. The Boxer uses the same internals as the 25 series BK fireplace inserts. They are wide at the front, but the sidewalls taper inwards, so the back wall is not as wide as the front wall. Pushing 6 cords a year through that firebox is going to be a time consuming chore, even if the output (on paper) looks suitable.

If you get one, you will hate having to load it before Thanksgiving. I do like the Boxer for 'small' well insulated cabins near Fairbanks, in the 12x16 to 16x20 range- that can maybe get away with buring 2-3 cords a year. At six cords, I would want to be loading full length splits side to side and top to bottom every time, not screwing around with an oddly shaped firebox.

Also useful. In a new tab I internet searched "Blaze King" and then selected the "wood stoves" direct link. then, each in a new tab, I opened a 20.2 sized box, a 30.2 sized box, the Princess 32 and the King 40. So four more tabs. If you got dial up go have a beer or something.

Paging across these 4 models - all the "20.2" boxes have different skins, but the same firebox, same with the 30.2 boxes....

The 20.2 box is rated for 11k BTU/hr on low, and 28kBTU/hr on high, and I don't much care for this size though it might work well here.
The 30.2 box is rated for 12-36k/BTU per hour low/high
The Princess is rated 12.5-37k BTU/ hr low/high
The King (requires 8" diameter chimney) is rated 14-48kBTU/hr, so bigger than you need.

The Bx24 (new tab) 10-30kBTU/hr.

What I see is any of the 20, 30 or 32 sized BK boxes could meet your BTU / hour needs. As you go up in size you are buying a bigger and bigger fuel tank - more time between reloads at whatever output. When you step up from the Boxer into a 20-30-Princess you get a rectangular fire box that can take full length splits corner to corner to corner.

If you are going with a BK, you need your wood for next winter split and stacked right now. Like go bust it out full time and have it done by May first. If you are in the interior, splits you have stacked off the ground and top covered (you can use 4" diameter spruce poles to get it off the ground) on May first should be ready to go (if they are top covered) on Sept 15. Birch in the round (not split) is not seasoning and does not count. If you must, split all your birch at least once right away so it can start seasoning, and then go back through the pile and split it down to stove size. Big splits is good, but you will want some smalls to fill the gaps as you are loading.

All the new EPA certified stoves run best with wood at or under 20% MC. If you have split, stacked off the ground and top covered on may 1 in the interior you will be fine. If you are up in the Brooks Range, maybe sooner. Get it done. I had all my wood for next winter stacked on March 17th this year because we had a hard winter and I burnt it all, so all my sheds were ready to be filled.

I am going to now tag @begreen , he is our resident guru for keeping up with all the stoves from all the manufacturers. To me, this looks like a slam dunk for BK as any of the 20-30-32 sized fireboxes can do the job from low to high just by twiddling the knob on the side of the stove. If there is another stove out there from some other mfr that can do the job, begreen is one of the folks who knows which stove that is.

FWIW I ass/u/me you have 6" diameter chimney pipe.

I would be prepared to buy another 2 feet of chimney to take you up to 15' total, but I would wait and see how the stove runs in deep winter with what you have before you add more pipe. If you want to run any of these low and slow when outdoor temps are +45dF, you are going to want 18-20 feet of total stack height. At -60 you want a shorter stack, like 13-15 feet, so the stove doesn't melt from having excessive draft. Once you have your stack height dialed in to run full throttle at -60; in the spring and fall just load half a box of fuel, or a third of a box, run it on high because you don't have a lot of draft to work with, let it burn out, and then light up another partial load tomorrow night.

Good luck and best wishes.

Thank you for taking the time to write out an incredibly detailed and informational response, it is greatly appreciated .

I am also considering and researching the 20.2 & 30.2

Yes your correct I am running 6 inch stove pipe.

My location is between Tok and Delta .

With a longer burn time I don't think I would come close to 6 cords of wood, the only reason I run so many cords is I try not to let the fire burn out and in order to do that I have to re load every 2.5 hours.

On the note of fuel tank size , Perhaps im incorrect , but this is my understanding and thought process on the matter.
I am comparing the Low out put burn time of the models, but also the cubic capacity of the fire box for maximum wood fill . witch would obviously not be filled entirely to the cubic capacity level. The reason im looking at this is because given the cubic capacity of a wood of cord im dividing that by the cubic capacity of the unit and its estimated load times per day.

so with that in mind I was trying to find a box that will not over heat or be to large, as well as run minimal wood at acceptable out puts of heat. so where some ratings where 24 hours on low vs 30 hours on low I was also comparing the amount of wood needed to loaded into the unit to reach those numbers.

also I do not usually run the burner until its 0 - or colder

 

[stoveliker]

Given that the outputs of these stoves on their low end is quite comparable (within 10%), I'm not sure you would really see a big difference between the amount of wood needed. If anything, longer spans between reloads equates to less wood usage (even if more wood is loaded at a reload) if burned down at the same rate (see the 10% difference in BTU production) - why? Because the first 15-30 minutes you blow a lot of heat up the chimney when one runs high to bake the wood/char the wood/whatever your preferred phrase is (Poindexter has preferences here ). That will be larger for a "15 minute per 24 hours" than a "15 minute per 30 hours" reloading schedule.

(But then again, a 30 hour reloading schedule in the 30 firebox does not really work well with our working days... And I suspect you will be slightly less that because you need a bit more BTUs than 10-12k.)

I think you can't do the calculation based on 2.5 hr reloads in the old stove, because you do that calculation based on BTU input. The old stove is likely blowing most of it thru the chimney. The BK will put more BTUs into your room from the amount put in the stove.

So I would not stare myself blind on these tiny differences. Poindexter was right in saying any of these would likely do the trick - and he said so with a more solid approach than my initial guess that that would indeed be the case.

IF your BTU needs are indeed as low as you say they are, the BK 30 boxes would have you refill the 3 cubic ft firebox at most twice a day. (Which, frankly, is surprising to me, given your climate - but maybe your home is indeed awesomely insulated and sealed. Are you thinking about an OAK?...)

 

[Wildalaska]

Given that the outputs of these stoves on their low end is quite comparable (within 10%), I'm not sure you would really see a big difference between the amount of wood needed. If anything, longer spans between reloads equates to less wood usage (even if more wood is loaded at a reload) if burned down at the same rate (see the 10% difference in BTU production) - why? Because the first 15-30 minutes you blow a lot of heat up the chimney when one runs high to bake the wood/char the wood/whatever your preferred phrase is (Poindexter has preferences here ). That will be larger for a "15 minute per 24 hours" than a "15 minute per 30 hours" reloading schedule.

(But then again, a 30 hour reloading schedule in the 30 firebox does not really work well with our working days... And I suspect you will be slightly less that because you need a bit more BTUs than 10-12k.)

I think you can't do the calculation based on 2.5 hr reloads in the old stove, because you do that calculation based on BTU input. The old stove is likely blowing most of it thru the chimney. The BK will put more BTUs into your room from the amount put in the stove.

So I would not stare myself blind on these tiny differences. Poindexter was right in saying any of these would likely do the trick - and he said so with a more solid approach than my initial guess that that would indeed be the case.

IF your BTU needs are indeed as low as you say they are, the BK 30 boxes would have you refill the 3 cubic ft firebox at most twice a day. (Which, frankly, is surprising to me, given your climate - but maybe your home is indeed awesomely insulated and sealed. Are you thinking about an OAK?...)

Hello,
Thanks for the information

Insulation: I did all the work myself, the insulation is on point. ( I can go into detail on it if anyone wants )

Im sorry im not familiar with the abbreviation OAK or maybe its slipping my mind at the moment.


and again thanks to everyone for the awesome input it has been greatly appreciated and incredibly valuable

 

[stoveliker]

Then you did a mighty good job with your home. Hats off.

OAK is an outside air kit.
Your stove sucks air from inside and blows it out of the chimney. If your home is tight this adds impedance to the overall gas flow pathway (outside, thru wall, inside, into stove, baffles or cat, chimney and out). Too much impedance could decrease the flow thru your stove when it overpowers the draft in the chimney that is the engine of this process.

An OAK helps by piping air directly from outside into your stove, not having to suck it thru the front door seals etc.

This is also more efficient because you don't replace heated air from your home (used in the stove) with cold air from outside.

 

[Wildalaska]

Then you did a mighty good job with your home. Hats off.

OAK is an outside air kit.
Your stove sucks air from inside and blows it out of the chimney. If your home is tight this adds impedance to the overall gas flow pathway (outside, thru wall, inside, into stove, baffles or cat, chimney and out). Too much impedance could decrease the flow thru your stove when it overpowers the draft in the chimney that is the engine of this process.

An OAK helps by piping air directly from outside into your stove, not having to suck it thru the front door seals etc.

This is also more efficient because you don't replace heated air from your home (used in the stove) with cold air from outside.

thank you

ahh ok , I was aware of the outside air adapters , didn't think to abbreviate it as oak .

I would like to use an outside air kit , however from what I was able to research so far on the boxer 24 the kit was not available for this model as it didn't have the fittings.

I have not yet researched the kit on the other models suggested to me in this thread.

 

[stoveliker]

I'm actually not sure whether BK sells them - though they should.

 

[begreen]

Outside air kits are an option for the others. I thought that he Boxer had its heritage from the inserts which do not have an OAK option. However, in the troubleshooting section they do mention adding an OAK. This could be a copy/paste from other models and poor documentation editing.

 

[Poindexter]

My location is between Tok and Delta .

With a longer burn time I don't think I would come close to 6 cords of wood,

also I do not usually run the burner until its 0 - or colder

So you are in the interior, box checked.

Imagine (not hard) winter is 6 months long. You want 12kBTU/hr, 24/7, for two months. That's 19.4 million BTUs

You also want 23kBTU/ hr, 24/7, for another 2 months. That's another 33.1 million BTUs

And for the the coldest 2 months you want 35k BTU/ hour, 24/7, that's another 50.4 million BTUs.

So you are looking for, about, 102.9 million BTUs delivered to your insulation envelope each winter.

NO stove is 100% efficient at delivering BTUs from the firebox to the house, you need some heat up the pipe to have chimney draft. 80% efficiency is reasonably attainable when doing math on the driveway with a piece of chalk.

102.9 million BTU /0.8 stove efficiency is 128.6 million BTUs of cordwood stacked on the lawn would meet all your heating needs, Alaska (white) spruce at 18 million BTU/ cord is 7.14 cords.

So 7.14 cords of white spruce with an up to date new production stove at 80% efficiency, you wouldn't, on paper, need any propane at all.

I run a size 30 box, in Fairbanks, into 1200sqft, it would score about 3.6 to maybe 3.8 on the energy star system if they were to offer that score and I paid to have it tested again. Down to about -30dF, I load once in the morning and once in the evening. When it is colder than -30 dF I usually load in the morning before work, run another load flat out during the evening, and then load a third time for that day right before bed.

A BK is clearly going to be a major step up from the woodstove you are replacing. Any of the current production EPA stoves will do similar for you, but may not have the low/high output range the BK offers.

Hope this helps.

 

[stoveliker]

Given that the 30k BTU furnace doesn't run continuously at the coldest days, the estimate of 7 cords is an overestimate, I think. (Not sure how much)

 

[Poindexter]

Given that the 30k BTU furnace doesn't run continuously at the coldest days, the estimate of 7 cords is an overestimate, I think. (Not sure how much)

I wouldn't, but I have a bit of local knowledge. The wind down that way can be fearsome, but isn't talked about much. When the OP says -60, he is leaving off the "plus whatever for windchill" part because the wind blows year round, and @ -60 F exposed flesh freezes in something like 30 seconds with no wind chill required.

My wife and I like to weekend down in Delta, it's about 85-90 miles south east of Fairbanks, with Tok another 100-120 miles further down the AlCan from Delta.

So even without the wind, that blows all the time that none of the locals really talk about, you got to dress up with goggles to go out and start your truck. Remember the OP did (it sounded to me like) his own spray foam insulation for sealing, and only has one window on the entire cabin. Me thinks he has some wind exposure.

If I was going to buy that property, just based on what is in this thread, I would be looking to have 8-10 cords seasoned, and at least 200 gallons of propane on hand on Sept 1. I would want either a 30 or 32 sized firebox.

FWIW 7 cords of splits, at 16 inches each, would be a stack 48 inches tall, 16 inches thick, and 168 feet long.

 

[stoveliker]

All I did was to point to the actual data of the OP. Coldest day (wind and all) is less than 30k per hr.

 

[BKVP]

The BX24 is not OAK compatible, @begreen, thank you for the catch!