Brand new to the wood burning world

[Crash11]

Hey guys,

Great forum here. I'm glad I found it. Just recently (about 1 month ago) I installed a small woodstove in my living room. It has two functions.........look nice and help my geothermal system keep my house reasonably warm in the winter. I ran into trouble with using ONLY my geothermal because the capacity wasn't quite good enough, but I always knew I wanted a woodstove anyway. So anyway I'm trying to learn everything I can about wood burning. If you have any generic tips or advice please feel free. Some questions I have:

1 - What have you guys found to be the easiest way to get a fire going from scratch? I've been stuck basically using paper to try to get some pieces of pallets started, but it's been rough.

2 - Does that powder really work to keep creosote away? I've seen some on ebay that advertises if you put a spoonful on a hot fire about once a week or so, it'll eliminate creosote. What about the sweeping logs? Do those work?

3 - My dad told me he had once heard of some product that you can throw into a fire to choke away all of the oxygen and put it out immediately. Anybody know what it's called or if I should even bother with it? I'm planning on buying a fire extinguisher to keep in the kitchen as well.

4 - This spring I plan to start collecting my own wood for next winter (I had to buy a face cord for this winter). How do you know when wood is too old to use?

 

[weezer4117]

welcome to the forum!! whenever you burn wood and vent in a enclosed area you will ALWAYS have creosote!! there are several products out there that say they will help control buildup on chimney walls, i have had luck with the logs.

one thing that i do to help get a fire started is take a empty toilet paper core and pack it FULL of dryer lent, pack as much as you can inside and put under your kindling. works pretty good.

i have not heard or seen a powder that will put out a fire. however, i keep a road flare close by incase of a chimney fire. i have been told that in the event of a chimney fire throw a road flare inside and shut off primary air. (throw the whole thing inside the firebox, no need to stike it) i have never had to do this but have been told by reliable sources that this will take all of the oxygen out of the stove and chimney, killing the flame. of course its a good idea to have a extinguisher on hand also!!

hope this helps some

 

[edthedawg]

It probably won't take long for lots of folks to chime in - If you are cutting your own wood in the coming spring, that isn't next winter's wood. That's 2010-2011 wood.

You need wood to season a lot longer than one summer if you're going to expect good results. Lots of folks season for a few years. Expect cold burns and heavy creosote buildup w/ wet and/or unseasoned wood. Don't be afraid to experiment w/ supplemental products like BioBricks or EcoFirelogs, or that ilk - lots of folks use those... Burn clean, seasoned, dry hardwood and get it hot every day, and you won't have to worry about creo buildup. You don't want to burn junk or punky old deadwood.

Fire from scratch - again, lots of opinions there. You will easily be inundated w/ info. I still use the traditional paper/carboard shreds at the bottom, then bark/shavings, then a couple skinny scraps, and then a small split above that. I park all that right up front on the ash bed near the primary inlet. I put biggest splits down in the back, and progressively smaller stuff up front. My wife doesn't like to start w/ anything but kindling in there - I prefer not dropping wood onto a fragile startup fire, so i build as much as I can first. I will argue that my way works pretty well. Lots of folks like to use wax-based firestarters - you can make your own, mix in some sawdust, or buy pre-made (look up SuperCedars - they're excellent).

There's just a lot of variables for materials, structure, timing, setup, practices, etc. to properly diagnose poor results, without more info...

What stove do you have? Depending on if it's new or used/old, you may have a tough time completely closing it down in the event of a chimney fire. What is your chimney/liner setup?

Good luck and welcome to the forum!

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Welcome to the forum Crash. Nice name!

First piece of advice is to get good fuel and get it long before you need it. No stove will operate correctly if it has poor fuel and it seems most folks who have to buy their wood end up with green wood even though the seller says it is seasoned or it is okay to burn. You eventually will get to know what seasoned wood is.

There are several ways to get a fire going. Someone will post here no doubt about the top down method which seems to be gaining in popularity. If I could remember the link, I'd post it for you to watch a video. As for me, the top down just don't work that great. Some folks like to use cardboard for starting fires too.

I usually wad some newspaper (no colored) up and put in the bottom. Use several sheets; it is cheap. On that I put kindling that I make while splitting wood. I make it out of soft maple and get it to 1" x 1" give or take a little. We also gather up chips from where I split wood and as these dry they can make good kindling too.

After placing perhaps 6 pieces of kindling on the paper, we light the paper. Usually within 5 minutes the fire is going pretty good and then we'll add some small splits and that gets the fire going good. All this time, the draft has been open full.


On the creosote problem, prevention is better than worry. Do not burn green wood and you won't have to worry about creosote. Some say the powder works and some say not. We've never used it and have burned wood over 50 years. We also have never had a chimney fire.


I'm not sure about that stuff you throw into a fire to put it out. No doubt your father was speaking as if you had a chimney fire and needed to put it out. Just close all drafts immediately and don't open the firebox door. That would just give a big gust of oxygen to the already roaring fire.


Good to get all of next year's wood by spring. Get it split and stacked, preferably in the sun and wind. Don't cover the wood pile until late next fall or early winter, before snow starts sitting on the pile. Leaving it uncovered over the summer allows for the best evaporation of the moisture in the wood. When you do cover it, cover only the top. Leave the sides and ends open. Don't worry about rain hitting the sides and ends either as that moisture will evaporate fast.

Good luck.

 

[Crash11]

Great replies already. Thanks guys.

What about wood that has already been lying dead in my woods for a few years? Does that still need to be cut up, split, and seasoned for more than a year? I'm pretty sure a lot of the wood that was sold to me was barely seasoned. I hear water boiling out in a lot of pieces.

I had no idea you could burn laundry lent. My wife-to-be is a laundry fanatic so I'll have a huge supply of lent.

My stove model is the Napoleon 1100C. It's a fairly plain, small, black unit. I'll get pictures of my setup as soon as I get a chance. I used double wall pipe inside my house up to the ceiling, then converted to triple wall chimney pipe to go outside (22' vaulted ceiling). I had to do an offset up at the top to avoid my beam so there's a couple 45's mixed in.

Someone mentioned cardboard works well for starting fires. Can I use any cardboard, or only plain stuff? I recycle tons of cereal boxes and whatnot (stuff with paper glued to it). I wasn't sure if that was good to use for starting fires so I haven't been using it.

When you say "burn clean dry wood and you won't have a problem with creosote"..... do you mean I won't even have to clean out my chimney every year? Or do you just mean I won't have a chimney fire?

 

[edthedawg]

I have an ample supply of non-glossy corrugated - I use that. I hear people use milk cartons, which makes sense to me due to the wax content. haven't tried that, myself. To get started, it's not really critical what you use, so long as it's not petroleum (no gas or kerosene!) and you don't overdo it. Your woodstove is NOT a junkmail incinerator.

Dead wood in the woods - probably rot or at least punk to worry about. No doubt it'd be waterlogged to hell. Wouldn't likely make good firewood. Standing deadwood is a different story - just watch for animals and insects there. Highbeam has a great story about splitting into a huge carpenter ant nest...

Wet wood - try a supplemental product, either grocery store wood, trade w/ a friend for dry/seasoned, or get some sort of compressed sawdust product. That moisture is not only robbing you of firebox heat by consuming BTU's in the boiling process, but also giving you tons of extra moisture and cooling up in the flue to increase your condensation of creosote.

You always Always ALWAYS need to get your chimney inspected - at least once a year - some folks do it twice, or even monthly. There is no substitute for regular cleaning and inspections. Do not skip this. Ever.

One last piece of advice: Listen to Dennis. Always listen to Dennis.

 

[weezer4117]

i clean my chimney twice a year no matter what. you MUST clean it atleast once a year.

i get most of my wood from trees that are already down ( of course they still have to be cut and split) i cut down all the trees im gonna use 2 years in advance, let the tree lay for a year, cut and split it, then stack it in the elements for 8-12 months.

 

[jpl1nh]

While I think the chimney cleaners help somewhat in breaking down creosote I think burning dry, seasoned wood in a properly operated stove and cleaning your chimney once or twice a year is the best way to avoid any problems with creosote. I say "dry, seasoned" wood because IMHO the two are somewhat different. Seasoned refers to removing the internal moisture in the wood. Dry means its not wet from the elements or poor storage. A properly operated stove is one that avoids damping the air supply so low that your fire smolders, among other things. The main thing people do wrong in trying to start a fire is to try to light large pieces of wood right away. As any good pyro knows, its's easy set little things like paper and twigs on fire and then you can add bigger pieces, then some logs, then tree trunks, the neighbors garage door..sorry, getting carried away here. Just start with small easy to light stuff and add bigger and bigger pieces to it as it gets going, and always supply lots of air on a start up fire. DO NOT burn things with painted finishes or colored inks. They can release really nasty toxins into the environment and they will ruin a catalytic combustor in a hurry if you have a catalytic stove. I burns tons of dead wood, actually mostly dead wood. It's going to rot and release CO2 anyway so I might as well get some heat out of it while releasing the CO2, plus the price is right. And punky burns just fine thank you, just doesn't give you very much heat for the volume. Of course any wood you burn is always thoroughly dry, right? Have a big piece of semi punky pine in my stove right now. :bug: As Dennis said, you certainly can season next years wood in one season. Best idea would be to cut those trees now before the sap starts to rise in them around mid-March or so. Then as early in the spring as possible, cut them to length, split to size and stack in the sunniest breeziest spot you've got in narrow rows with lots of air spaces between the rows and the logs. Leave them (top covered or not) and you should be good. Oak would do better with 2 seasons but most other varieties should be fine for next winter. Enjoy!

 

[firefighterjake]

You've got a bunch of great replies so far, but I'll thrown in my own proverbial two cents.

How do I start a fire from scratch? If the firebox is totally dead with no live coals I take the time to clean it out a bit . . . just easier to do it then as opposed to when it's chocker blocker full of hot coals giving off lots and lots of heat. I tend to take a couple pieces of cardboard that I've cut down to the size of cereal boxes (or if I have a pizza box, cereal box, soda box, etc.) I'll place that in the stove . . . on top of that I add some small cedar kindling that I split up from a dead/down white cedar . . . followed by either some thin pallet pieces or some standing/dead softwood/hardwood . . . followed by 1-2 larger pieces of hardwood.

I light the cardboard (occcasionally putting a single sheet of newspaper into the firebox to get things going), open the draft wide open and leave the door ajar by 1/4-1/2 inch. I sit right by the fire and let the temps on the stove thermometer and flue thermometer climb until they're really going strong (typically I wait until the flue temp is above the creosote-making temps) and then shut the door and monitor the stove top temp . . . once the stove top temp is where I want it to be I adjust the air flow accordingly. Typically this first fire is just a starter fire for me and within the hour I will add some of the "better" wood to the hot coals for my "regular" longer-burning fire.

Magical mystery powder: Some folks swear by the stuff . . . others say it doesn't do much. I personally believe that like many Magical Mystery Powders/Fluids/Etc. that make grandiose promises (i.e. cleaner chimneys, better running engines, more horsepower, you'll live to 100, etc.) there is no real substitute for doing the right thing . . . and when it comes to woodheat the right thing is to use seasoned wood, inspect/clean out your chimney regularly/when needed and to practice good burning techniques (i.e. know how your stove works.)

Fire down below: I am of the belief once again that the best way to fight a chimney fire is to not have that chimney fire . . . again it comes down to proper installations, good burning practices, knowing your stove (i.e. knowing how to load it, when to cut the air back, etc.), burning seasoned wood and checking/cleaning the chimney regularly. That said . . . fires can happen. If possible I would recommend cutting off the airflow to the stove -- both primary and secondary air if the stove is an EPA stove and calling 911 . . . if you believe you need to quickly stop the fire in the stove/chimney then in fact you have a real, bonafied emergency that truly dictates calling in professional help (i.e. the firefighters.) If you are still bent on attempting to fight the fire, then yes . . . a fire extinguisher (dry chemical) could work, wet newspaper tossed inside (turns to steam), flares and a whole host of other products are available . . . again . . . think prevention rather than suppression.

Here wood, wood, wood: Collecting wood. As you have no doubt learned buying "seasoned" wood means different things to different people and it seems as though many folks discover that the seasoned wood they buy is often not truly seasoned to the point where they would like it to be . . . at least to the point where they can simply toss it into the fire the day it is delivered.

This year I'm getting by largely thanks to a bunch of standing dead elm. Trees that are standing dead or fallen over and dead can be used . . . but just like buying wood . . . how soon you can use the wood you harvest is dependent on how long it has been standing dead, the species type and in the case of fallen wood if it is in contact with the ground (well obviously some point will be in contact with the ground since it has fallen over) and what the soil conditions are like. In other words, an elm that is standing dead and has been standing dead for just a few months may not burn well . . . but an elm or ash that has been standing dead for two years may burn exceptionally well. In a similar vein of thought . . . a pine tree that has fallen over a year or two ago with just the top boughs touching the ground will probably burn better than an oak tree that fell over a year or two ago and is lying entirely on the ground.

It is in fact possible to get wood that you can burn next Fall this Spring . . . but you will have to pick and choose what wood you harvest . . . as to your original question . . . you can get wood that is too old in terms of it being half-rotted or too punky (wet punky wood is bad . . . dry punky wood is good . . . to a point . . . it will burn . . . but it tends to burn very fast and very hot.)

 

[Backwoods Savage]

A word about that dead stuff in the woods.

If there are some dead trees that have fallen down, it really depends upon if they have fallen all the way or not. Once the wood touches the ground, it can then rot pretty darned fast. But if the wood is kept up off the ground, then it will keep for a long time. So, if a tree has fallen in such a way to keep it up, go for it. If it has been on the ground, I'd cut it only within a year of the time it fell.

Also, I'd let it season at least through a hot summer before trying to burn it.

 

[Jags]

3 cheap=put wet newspaper in sealed plastic bag & keep near stove. if needed, bag melts in firebox,paper releases steam , steam smothers all fires it finds.

Ya know, I swear I am gonna dig out the old earth stove, set it in the middle of the driveway with a couple of sections of pipe on it, build a huge fire in it and throw a plastic bag with wet newspapers in it, just to prove that this will have little effect on the fire.

Heck, I can't even get a stack of dry newspapers to burn, let alone wet. I just don't think the water will turn to steam fast enough.

 

[North of 60]

3 cheap=put wet newspaper in sealed plastic bag & keep near stove. if needed, bag melts in firebox,paper releases steam , steam smothers all fires it finds.

Ya know, I swear I am gonna dig out the old earth stove, set it in the middle of the driveway with a couple of sections of pipe on it, build a huge fire in it and throw a plastic bag with wet newspapers in it, just to prove that this will have little effect on the fire.

Heck, I can't even get a stack of dry newspapers to burn, let alone wet. I just don't think the water will turn to steam fast enough.

I here ya Jags.
It will probably turn to a deadly black mold before you get to use it. Not something I would want around the house for the kids to get into. Keep your chimney clean to start with and maintain your stove, then its a done deal!

 

[Crash11]

I've attached some pictures of my setup.

Lately I've been noticing that when I try to start fires I'm getting a little more smoke into the house than when I first fired this thing up. I think I'm not getting enough up-draft, but I have my inlet wide open. Also, as far as I can tell there's no restrictions in the outlet of the firebox on top.

Anybody know exactly where the air enters the firebox on my unit? All I can tell is there is about a 3" wide channel that runs along the bottom, back, and top of the firebox, and there are a couple openings on the bottom that I can close-off with my adjustment lever.

 

[Jags]

Holy CRAP! That thing should draft like a seagull behind an aircraft carrier. :gulp:

 

[Backwoods Savage]

I agree. There must be some blockage in that chimney.

 

[Crash11]

I can't understand how I could have blockage already. I've only been using it about 6 weeks. That reminds me of another question I had though.... regarding disassemble to clean out the chimney. I used all rigid pipe and sealed all my joints. Am I stuck having to take pieces out in order to get in there and brush them out? I mean, what is the standard practice for cleaning out a chimney like this? Also, the "stove adapter" I bought to start the run from my stove fit terribly. I'm wondering if my stove was meant to have double wall pipe mounted directly to it with no adapter? The adapter I was told to use was about an inch too large in diameter. Every other piece fit great all the way up. Do you guys generally install a telescoping piece at the bottom for easy access? Lastly, Is it necessary to put in a damper somewhere in the chimney to close it off when not in use?

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Crash, there have been many with blocked chimneys in less than 6 weeks.

 

[Jags]

If your not afraid of getting up on the roof, I would consider a brush with rope on each end. It will take 2 people, go back and forth like dental floss.

 

[Crash11]

Crash, there have been many with blocked chimneys in less than 6 weeks.

What's the usual culprit?

 

[North of 60]

Crash, there have been many with blocked chimneys in less than 6 weeks.

What's the usual culprit?

Not in specific order.
1) wet wood
2) not running hot enough to sustain a secondary burn/smouldering
3) Having a leakage in your chimney to allow a draft to let cooler air in to drop your stack temp and allow it to condense in the flue.
4) a screened cap with a any one of the above items can cause this effect much faster.
Good luck. N of 60

 

[gyrfalcon]

Hey guys,

1 - What have you guys found to be the easiest way to get a fire going from scratch? I've been stuck basically using paper to try to get some pieces of pallets started, but it's been rough.

4 - This spring I plan to start collecting my own wood for next winter (I had to buy a face cord for this winter). How do you know when wood is too old to use?

Hey, Crash, welcome. First, on starting a fire from scratch, DO NOT clean out all the ash from your stove, leave an inch or so in the bottom. Works much better that way. Second, get or make yourself a supply of small kindling. Split those pallet pieces way down and/or go collect the small dead branches/twigs that fall out of trees over the winter and break those up. You can start with lots of crumpled newspaper (cheap but tedious) or just get a supply of Super Cedars and use half or even a quarter of one of those with the smallest kindling you have piled on top. Then sit there and watch. Once that gets going really good (sometimes you need to leave the door open a crack or more in the beginning), carefully put a few larger kindling pieces on top. When they catch, add a couple of larger ones. And like that. A sort of teepee effect with shorter pieces of medium or large kindling works best, being sure not to block the primary air (or "doghouse") works best, where you sort of protect and intensify the burn in the middle.

Read stuff carefully here because what works with big stoves doesn't always work so well in a small firebox, which is much more unforgiving.

If you have a nice open, sunny, breezy place outside to stack firewood, you can certainly get burnable wood (as long as it's not oak) if you cut and split well down and get it stacked by April or May. It will be better a year later, but you can get within decent moisture range in 6 or 7 months. The longer into winter you can leave it uncovered outside, the better. It absolutely definitely does continue to season during winter. Don't even worry about covering the top, is my advice. Snow or even rain doesn't penetrate very far and dries out quickly once it's indoors.

As for how old is too old-- if it looks (and smells) crappy, it's too old, meaning it's started to rot or get what's called "punky." Trust me, you'll know it when you see it.

 

[NitroDave]

Holy CRAP! That thing should draft like a seagull behind an aircraft carrier. :gulp:

Where did you come up with that ?????

 

[Jags]

Holy CRAP! That thing should draft like a seagull behind an aircraft carrier. :gulp:

Where did you come up with that ?????

USN!

 

[Crash11]

I thought of some more questions......

My stove never came with a grate. Is it necessary to have one? I know I need to let the wood breath inside which is what I do by laying the logs in such a way to create large gaps on the bottom.

I'm realizing the "damper" on my stove is only adjusting the inlet air gap, but I have no way to adjust the outlet. Do most people install a damper on the chimney? I'm just wondering because I only burn in the evenings, so when I don't have a fire going I'm probably creating a large air leak right?

Where is the best place to put a thermometer on the stove to watch burn temp? I've heard on the top of the stove and I've heard on the chimney pipe close to the top of the stove. I'm thinking on the chimney pipe is better, but even then......with double wall pipe, how much can I trust this temperature reading?

Last one, I'm just about out of wood for the season, and the weather is getting better. So pretty soon here I'll be heading up on the roof to do a clean up. My triple wall section of chimney consists of a 2' piece on top of a 3' piece going straight through the roof. I plan on removing the 2' piece from the top with the cap and bringing it down into the garage to clean it out real good. While I have that piece off the top I'm considering hiring someone to do a cleaning of the rest of the chimney. My question is, what am I asking them to do? And who do I call?

 

[gyrfalcon]

I thought of some more questions......

My stove never came with a grate. Is it necessary to have one? I know I need to let the wood breath inside which is what I do by laying the logs in such a way to create large gaps on the bottom.

I'm realizing the "damper" on my stove is only adjusting the inlet air gap, but I have no way to adjust the outlet. Do most people install a damper on the chimney? I'm just wondering because I only burn in the evenings, so when I don't have a fire going I'm probably creating a large air leak right?

Where is the best place to put a thermometer on the stove to watch burn temp? I've heard on the top of the stove and I've heard on the chimney pipe close to the top of the stove. I'm thinking on the chimney pipe is better, but even then......with double wall pipe, how much can I trust this temperature reading?

Last one, I'm just about out of wood for the season, and the weather is getting better. So pretty soon here I'll be heading up on the roof to do a clean up. My triple wall section of chimney consists of a 2' piece on top of a 3' piece going straight through the roof. I plan on removing the 2' piece from the top with the cap and bringing it down into the garage to clean it out real good. While I have that piece off the top I'm considering hiring someone to do a cleaning of the rest of the chimney. My question is, what am I asking them to do? And who do I call?

I was hoping one of the vastly more experienced people than I would answer your questions, but since they haven't, I'll give it a shot and hope one of them will chime in and correct me if necessary.

First, you do not need, in fact should not use, a grate, if you mean one of those things that sits inside fireplaces to keep the logs off the floor. I said this to you earlier, and I wasn't making it up. You want a layer of a couple inches of ash on the bottom of the stove to put your firewood on. I have no idea what you mean about letting the logs "breathe." When your're starting a fire, yes, you want some places for air to circulate around the firewood to get it going, but after that, it's not an issue.

You only need a damper on the flue (not the chimney) if you have reason to think your draft is too strong. That doesn't seem to be the case for you. Forget about it.

You can't have an "air leak" in a modern airtight stove, so you're not losing heat from the house up the flue of a cold stove. That can be a problem with open fireplaces, but it's physically impossible with a stove. Vast quantities of room air aren't forcing themselves through your little primary air control and up the cold flue.

You're right, with double-wall pipe, you don't want to put an ordinary thermometer on the pipe itself because it won't tell you a thing. Your stove manual should tell you where to put the thermometer. Mine says to put it on the center stone on the top of the stove. If yours doesn't tell you, the center of the top of the stove is your best bet.

As for the chimney cleaning, that's not something I know a lot about but I honestly don't know what you're trying to fix by taking the top off and giving it a good cleaning. It makes zero sense to me. It's not a dinner plate, it's a chimney. It doesn't need to be pristine so you can eat off of it, just cleaned of creosote deposits-- which are like a thick layer of soot. They get brushed off.

Who to call? Call a chimney sweep. Look in the yellow pages. Tell them you need your chimney cleaned. Leave the top on it and let the sweep do it (he wont charge you any less if you take it down and do it yourself) unless he for some crazy reason tells you you should do that. I can't imagine why he would.

Unless I'm totally misunderstanding you, you seem to have quite a large number of misconceptions about how all this works, from chimney cleaning to air leaks. Do read some of the stuff in the wiki on this site, and browse in the discussion threads and you'll get up to speed on the basics quickly. And also your stove manual and/or the manufacturer's and/or dealer's Web site. They often have a great deal of basic information.