Breaker keeps tripping

[jsimonson2006]

Hello everyone ...

I have been having a problem with my breaker tripping for the fireplace blower... i have a quadrafire 7100
in the attached photo u can see the tv is mounted above the fireplace ... well when i had my electricain wire the fireplace he wired the tv outlet with it well when the tv is on and the blower is running on high speed it doesnt trip but when u try to down the speed on the blower it trips within a few minutes ... can anyone help with this issue ...

 

[velvetfoot]

I can't really help, but if I'd paid for an electrician to do the work, I'd give him a call.

There's nothing 'fancy' about the breaker, is there? I have panel breakers for the bedrooms that trip when they detect an arc. Sometimes they trip when vacuuming the rugs.

 

[jb6l6gc]

What type of breaker is it? Make/model/amps? Also what type of wire was used?

 

[mepellet]

Arc fault breaker? When did the electrician do this work?

 

[DougA]

well when the tv is on and the blower is running on high speed it doesnt trip but when u try to down the speed on the blower it trips within a few minutes

My guess is that there is a problem in the blower. If the breaker is not tripping when the blower is on high speed and only trips after a few minutes of the blower being turned to a lower speed, it indicates a fault in the speed control on the blower or a problem with the blower motor (unlikely). I can't see how the electrician, type of wire or type of breaker has anything to do with it. It's not tripping due to overload.
I would call quadrafire tech support. I am assuming the speed control is built into or part of the unit, not something you supplied.

 

[mepellet]

My guess is that there is a problem in the blower. If the breaker is not tripping when the blower is on high speed and only trips after a few minutes of the blower being turned to a lower speed, it indicates a fault in the speed control on the blower or a problem with the blower motor (unlikely). I can't see how the electrician, type of wire or type of breaker has anything to do with it. It's not tripping due to overload.
I would call quadrafire tech support. I am assuming the speed control is built into or part of the unit, not something you supplied.

An arc fault breaker doesn't only trip on overload.... Hence the name arc fault......

 

[begreen]

First suspect, the motor speed controller. That should be fairly inexpensive to replace. Second, when was the blower fan and motor last cleaned on this unit? If the motor bearing is going dry then it may not have enough power to run at low speed.

 

[Warm_in_NH]

Cut a small piece of wood and wedge it in the panel to hold the breaker in the ON position. Problem solved.

KIDDING. DO NOT DO THAT. I've seen it done before, scary, it's the modern version of the penny under the fuse.

 

[DougA]

Hence the name arc fault.

OK, I'm wrong. It could be a defective breaker but even if it is arc fault, it's far more likely showing that there's a problem in the speed control or fan motor.

 

[fbelec]

definitely the fan unit. as far as arc fault breakers go they suck. i had a company rep explain to me how they work. if there is a arc in the wiring or what ever is plugged in that arc emits a rf signal. so the arc fault breaker listens to the circuit it is running and if it hears the frequency it trips. the brand i use is murray or siemans. they have a led light on the breaker that lets you know why the breaker trips. (overloads arc faults) it's hearing that frequency or it is a bad breaker. i have to work with them just about everyday. i hate them. we are on the second generation now but the first generation was really bad. they will probably have the bugs worked out of them in about 10 years. it took about this time to fix gfi breakers.

 

[Rearscreen]

Arc info interesting...run an extension cord (stinger in the movie biz) to another circuit and see what happens?

 

[jsimonson2006]

hello everyone ..
it is a brand new home with a 200 amp square D box with square d breakers it is on a 15 amp breaker ... so i might have a bad breaker ..i will have to call the tech out that installed the unit to see what the issue is ... it is wired to what the manual says with the speed control...it has the 14-3 wire for the power to the firebox and 14-2 incoming power ...

 

[begreen]

Could be a bad breaker or even possible that someone forgot to tighten the screw on the wire at the breaker. Definitely have it checked out.

 

[mepellet]

Brand new home, probably an arc fault breaker then? Believe it is code.

 

[David.Ervin]

I had more or less the same problem on my Northstar (sister stove from the same company). Turned out to be a bad rheostat. Had it replaced, no problems (electrical anyway) since.

 

[TheRambler]

If it turns out not to be an issue with the blower/blower control then it may be a breaker sizing issue. Since it's technically a motor load you are allowed by code to use a 20A(30A max) breaker with a 14awg conductor. You can get a 20A breaker for a few bucks or move the wires to one already in your panel( remove existing circuit wites from it if you do) for testing to see if it continues to trip.

 

[fire_man]

If it turns out not to be an issue with the blower/blower control then it may be a breaker sizing issue. Since it's technically a motor load you are allowed by code to use a 20A(30A max) breaker with a 14awg conductor. You can get a 20A breaker for a few bucks or move the wires to one already in your panel( remove existing circuit wites from it if you do) for testing to see if it continues to trip.

I'm not so sure about this statement since the motor is not the only load on the branch circuit. The OP stated the breaker also fed a receptacle for the TV. According to what I can find regarding the NEC:

The selected conductor must be protected against overcurrent in accordance with
Section 240-3. Section 240-3.

This requires the branch circuit, feeder, and service conductors be protected against overcurrent in accordance with their ampacities as specified in Table 310-16. However, Section 240-3(b) permits "the next size up device" if the conductors are not part of a multioutlet branch circuit supplying receptacles, and the ampacity of the conductors does not correspond with the standard ampere rating of a overcurrent protection fuse or a circuit breaker as listed in Section 240-6(a), and the next higher standard rating selected does not exceed 800 amperes.

 

[gzecc]

Hello everyone ...

I have been having a problem with my breaker tripping for the fireplace blower... i have a quadrafire 7100
in the attached photo u can see the tv is mounted above the fireplace ... well when i had my electricain wire the fireplace he wired the tv outlet with it well when the tv is on and the blower is running on high speed it doesnt trip but when u try to down the speed on the blower it trips within a few minutes ... can anyone help with this issue ...
View attachment 156036

Find out what else is on that curcuit. Hopefully its not the rest of the house.

 

[Simonkenton]

14 gauge wire with a 15 amp breaker is a proper install. Do not put a 20 amp breaker in there.
Fans don't use that much juice and neither do tvs, a 15 amp circuit should be able to handle that with ease. Might be a bad breaker.
What else is on that circuit? Even in new houses I sometimes see lots and lots of lights and receptacles on the same circuit. Is there something else on that circuit that draws a lot of electricity?

TheRambler: as far as I know it is against the code to use a 20 amp breaker with 14 gauge wires, the idea being that the wires are too small for the breaker, you could get wire overheating and a fire could start, yet the big breaker won't pop. Am I mistaken?

 

[fire_man]

Not quite true, Simonkenton. There is an exception to the usual rules governing overcurrent devices when motors are involved.

The small conductor rule contained in 240.4(D), which limits 15A protection for 14 AWG, doesn’t apply to motor circuit protection. See 240.4(D) and 240.4(G).

But in this case, there are more loads than just a motor.

 

[Simonkenton]

I am not an electrician, I am a custom log home builder. But, I have wired 3 of my houses, did all the wiring except for installing the panel boxes.
In all my wiring, I use only 12 gauge wire and 20 amp breakers and this story is the reason why. Of course you have to use 12 gauge wire for the kitchen circuits, but why not use it throughout the house? No additional labor costs, and not much more expensive. The contractor is going to build you a $200K house, and then save a few bucks by going cheapo on a little copper wire.

 

[DougA]

I use only 12 gauge wire and 20 amp breakers and this story is the reason why.

Some jurisdictions do not allow 20 amp breakers for bedrooms, etc.

 

[Simonkenton]

Don't allow 20 amp breakers for the bedroom? That makes no sense to me.
The code normally is quite sensible, but what could be wrong with putting stronger wire, and breakers, in a bedroom?
Well, I have wired up 6 bedrooms with 12 gauge wire and 20 amp breakers and no problems so far, these houses were wired up 20 and 15 years ago.

Like I said I am not an electrician, I am a log builder and a man with a rational mind.

 

[David.Ervin]

12 gauge wire and 20 amp breakers

I've got 12ga wire and 20A breakers almost everywhere in my new build (actual electrician did the install). The little motors on the blowers are hardly going to cause enough load to trip a 20A breaker unless there's some internal short going on. I'd be suspicious of either the rheostat having gone bad, like mine did, or some wire in the fireplace melted and is shorting to ground.

code to use a 20A(30A max) breaker with a 14awg

Don't do this. If there's an overload on your circuit already that's causing the breaker to trip, the last thing you want to do is feed it more juice and get the wiring hotter. Worst case scenario, you can probably have a separate circuit pulled in to serve just the fireplace.

A new rheostat and maybe fan blowers are pretty cheap compared to a house fire.

 

[TheRambler]

I've got 12ga wire and 20A breakers almost everywhere in my new build (actual electrician did the install). The little motors on the blowers are hardly going to cause enough load to trip a 20A breaker unless there's some internal short going on. I'd be suspicious of either the rheostat having gone bad, like mine did, or some wire in the fireplace melted and is shorting to ground.



Don't do this. If there's an overload on your circuit already that's causing the breaker to trip, the last thing you want to do is feed it more juice and get the wiring hotter. Worst case scenario, you can probably have a separate circuit pulled in to serve just the fireplace.

A new rheostat and maybe fan blowers are pretty cheap compared to a house fire.

Hence why i said determine its not the blower or blower controls first. And despite the common nec chart most people reference 14awg actual ampacity is 22 amps, not the 15 shown on the chart. The chart purposefully shows it at 15A for a number of reasons i wont go into here. There is zero actual issues with using a 20A breaker with 14awg wire.