Buck Stove Insert Installation

[cards66]

I am going to be moving my Buck stove insert 27000B from the fireplace in the den to the fireplace in the living room. I had a couple of questions. When we bought the house it was installed in the den. It is just set in the fireplace with no duct work or anything on it. Would adding duct work or anything else on the installation make this be more efficient in burning when I move it? Also, I assume the best way to move a 400 to 500 pound stove is via a couple of guys and heavy duty dolly? Thanks in advance.

 

[jtp10181]

To make it legal you will at minimum need to put in a stubby liner and a block off plate. Basically you use a liner up into the first section of clay tiles and then use a metal plate to seal off the chimney from the room. This is only legit if the chimney itself can pass a Level II inspection. If it does not, you need a full liner with an insulation wrap. The latter is recommended anyway, regardless of the chimney condition.

Is this even a modern clean burning stove? Might not even be worth disturbing it if its not.

 

[cards66]

The stove was made in 87. So I would say it is somewhat modern. I talked to the local Buck stove dealer and they were saying if they were to install it they would have to use the block off plate and such. What is the issue with me just moving the stove and putting it in the other fireplace? I assume there will be a little more heat loss with out the block off plate and such.

 

[Burd]

I would think that alot of heat will go staight up the chimney( heat rises) and the fan on your insert would work harder to move the air .If you had a block off plate the heat will reflexed off of it and your fan wouldnt work as hard
I have a liner and the block off plate I really dont like Cardon Monoxide cant smell it and it will KILL you and your family if it had the chance.SO INSTALL IT RIGHTand please dont take a chance.
If I were you I would install at least one peaice up past your block off plate Before doing that get your chimney cleaned Try looking up info on your stove and see if you cant find the manual
GOOD LUCK
Are you putting any thing back in the den :sick:

 

[cards66]

Well currently in the den I don't have a block off plate with the insert. I looked up in the fireplace yesterday and found there is no damper plate in it. So i guess i will have to switch out the plates when I move the stove. So I can only close off the chimney via the damper on the stove insert. I looked at the manual and it doesn't say anything about block off plate.. Given the stove is from 87. I assume block off plates weren't too common back then. I don't have any plans to put anything back in the den. Anyone got any cheap ideas on what I might do in there for heat?

 

[BrotherBart]

OK here is the bad news. The old Buck 27000-B is anything but a modern stove. It is a 80's era fireplace insert designed for what is referred to as a "slammer" installation. Just shoved into a masonry fireplace with no direct connection to a chimney liner. What was discovered was that these old inefficient creosote factories would coat a chimney with dangerous flammable creosote in nothing flat.

I burned a competitors insert for over 20 years and thought I loved it but am thankful that it is out of here and the firebox is a meat smoker in the back yard now.

Just an adapter to attach an acceptable chimney liner to that stove is going to cost you over a hundred bucks. I know. I did it and junked the stove after attaching the liner. It wasn't designed to handle the increased draft that the liner provided and over-fired and darn near burned this joint down.

There are a lot of those old inserts out there and lots of people burning in them but they either spend a lot of time cleaning chimneys or they are sitting on a time bomb, or smoking out the neighbors. My neighbor can tell you. His old Buck created quite a bit of excitement with a chimney fire.

 

[Jerry_NJ]

Oh, yes. Been there done that... I had a "slammer" in my living room fireplace for 20 years too, it did a great job heating the house and every time I had the chimney swept the sweeper cringed and told me the insert wasn't up to code, but he'd shove it back in as I told him that's what I wanted to do. He also said it looked like I had had some mini-chimney fires too. Finally the chimney started smelling up the house, so I took it out and junked it. I've had the chimney roto-cleaned, and I personally scrubbed out the fireplace, but still a odor problem...it is getting better as there have been no fires, well a couple of simple open fireplace fires last winter for ambiance, not for heating. I now have an order in to have a new Quadrafire 4100 Insert installed with a stainless steel liner to the roof. Given how well the old "slammer" heated the house I have great hopes for the new insert.

I recommend not using the old insert, even with a block off plate.

 

[Burd]

I like what BrotherBart sayysssss :lol: Turn it in to a smoker.
Our take the money the gov gave you and buy something that will pay for it self >Longer burn times and much safer for the family

 

[brooktrout]

Okay, everyone, let's not slam this guy too hard. I have the EXACT same insert. It can be installed and run safely. It may not be as efficient as today's mdern stoves, but it can throw a TON of heat- I can raise the temp. of my 1200sqft house 20 degrees in 45mins.- no exageration. The 80's Bucks are monsters! And it CAN be run with minimal creosote build-up. The block-off plate may have something to do with code, but with this particular insert, will not affect heat loss much because it is a triple walled stove- msot of the heat goes out through the 4 front blower vents.
I've read quite a few threads from people who have older stoves, and the typical response, right out of the gate, is what I see here- your stove sucks, my stove rocks. If you have the money and means, and you want to, sure, get a modern one. If you want to wait for awhile, save up some cash, or just plain like the "classic" model, don't be discouraged- you can be quite satisfied with it. My Buck 27000 cost me $500. I spend less than $500 a year on wood. My chimney is pretty clean. And I'm saving $3600/year that would have gone to BIG OIL.

 

[cards66]

I don't really have the option of junking it and buying something new. We will only be living here for a few more years and then will be building a house. My wife doesn't want a fireplace in the house. So I am probably going to be going with geothermal or a wood furnace inside or out in the new place. So unless I could find a heck of a deal on something used I am stuck using this old relic. I have not had any issues with fires in the chimney or anything of this sort. We have the chimney cleaned yearly.

 

[Jerry_NJ]

I hear you brooktrout...that was my thinking until the chimney smell/odor killed my old slammer. I was very reluctant to spend a few thousand to get a new insert installed, but now that I have made the commitment, what can I do but argue it is the best way to go? Got to get to sleep at night.

 

[cards66]

BrookTrout....Thanks for the review. DO you have any helpful tips on burning the insert more effeicintly? I am moving it to the living room so it is more centrally located and hopefully will heat the house better. I have probably about a 2000 ft home and can't say I had the same kind of great results as you have had. So any tips you could give would greatly be appreciated. Thanks

 

[brooktrout]

I don't really have the option of junking it and buying something new. We will only be living here for a few more years and then will be building a house. My wife doesn't want a fireplace in the house. So I am probably going to be going with geothermal or a wood furnace inside or out in the new place. So unless I could find a heck of a deal on something used I am stuck using this old relic. I have not had any issues with fires in the chimney or anything of this sort. We have the chimney cleaned yearly.

Well, here's what I did- it may not be code in your area, but here it was fine. The Buck 27000 has a rectangular opening in the top rear. There is an adapter you can buy, to bolt to this opening. I fabricated mine out of 1/4 plate steel. This connects to an oval flexliner, which you can buy also, but I fabricated mine out of 18 gauge steel. This passes throught the damper area in the chimney and connects to 8" round, up to the top of the chimney. I stuffed unbacked fiberglass insulation around it where the block off plate would go, and around the flue at the top of the chimney.

 

[brooktrout]

BrookTrout....Thanks for the review. DO you have any helpful tips on burning the insert more effeicintly? I am moving it to the living room so it is more centrally located and hopefully will heat the house better. I have probably about a 2000 ft home and can't say I had the same kind of great results as you have had. So any tips you could give would greatly be appreciated. Thanks

Here's the deal with your insert, and I think BB will agree- run it HARD. They were built to take it. My insert regularly tops 750-800 degrees stove top temp. In the morining, my first fire is hot and fierce- just a roarin'. Small splits, loaded up, full air, damper wide open. This will throw alot of heat into your house, but also up the chimney- which is good, because it stays clean that way- sort of like putting your oven on self-cleaning mode. Of course, you don't want to do this unless you START OUT WITH A CLEAN CHIMNEY at the beginning of the season. Subsequent loads are full with 6-8 inch splits (the firebox, as you've noticed by now, is HUGE), with about a twenty minute "char" period. Then, air at 10% and damper fully closed. Enjoy :coolsmile:

 

[cards66]

Am I reading that right? You close the damper on the insert after you get the firing going good?

 

[brooktrout]

Am I reading that right? You close the damper on the insert after you get the firing going good?

Sorry for the delay- sleep came knockin'. Yes, see the damper on the Buckstove doesn't actually close ALL the way when you have it in it's fully closed position, that is with the handle above the doors pulled all the way out. Try it, and then look at the damper in the stove, and you'll see it still stays open about 1/4 to 3/8 inch.

 

[cards66]

Yeah. I know it doesn't close all the way. Obviously it retains a lot more heat with the damper closed. So do you just leave the damper closed all day then? Do you basically just open it to start the fire or if the fire has died down? I assume when you say air at 10%, you mean you keep the draft controls open a little bit? I can see how that would make a big difference. Does the damper still efeciently let the smoke go up the chimney with just that small opening?

 

[Jerry_NJ]

Wow, brooktrout (I assume you're a trout fisherman....perhaps a naturalist) you must be handy including metal work. Most of us DIY'ers are ok with wood, plumbing, electricity. but not so good with metal and welding. Sounds like you have a full airtight installation, just like the modern stoves recommend, just don't have the more modern burn technology that gets more BTUs with less pollution. Again, I'm and ex-slammer and would still be one except for the problem with odor.

The damper on the stove closed to only 1/4" sounds like asking for a lot of smoke blow back when you open the door, not so?

 

[brooktrout]

Yeah. I know it doesn't close all the way. Obviously it retains a lot more heat with the damper closed. So do you just leave the damper closed all day then? Do you basically just open it to start the fire or if the fire has died down? I assume when you say air at 10%, you mean you keep the draft controls open a little bit? I can see how that would make a big difference. Does the damper still efeciently let the smoke go up the chimney with just that small opening?

You got it all right. In fact, sometimes I pull the lever out all the way, past the last notch, and you can get some real nice secondary flames rolling around the top.

 

[cards66]

I was reading the owners manual tonight and that is how it states to operate the stove. i wish i had read that 3 years ago. I can only imagine how much heat has went out the damper. I am curious to see how much of a difference it makes leaving the damper closed

 

[brooktrout]

Wow, brooktrout (I assume you're a trout fisherman....perhaps a naturalist) you must be handy including metal work. Most of us DIY'ers are ok with wood, plumbing, electricity. but not so good with metal and welding. Sounds like you have a full airtight installation, just like the modern stoves recommend, just don't have the more modern burn technology that gets more BTUs with less pollution. Again, I'm and ex-slammer and would still be one except for the problem with odor.

The damper on the stove closed to only 1/4" sounds like asking for a lot of smoke blow back when you open the door, not so?

When opening the doors, you pop the damper open. As for the handiness, I do autobody for a living, so... and yes, I am a trout fisherman- caught a twenty inch brown on the west branch of the Delaware river tonite. Here's the pics.

 

[begreen]

That's a beauty and like a true fisherman, it looks like it grew a bit in the description. :coolsmile:

 

[brooktrout]

That's a beauty and like a true fisherman, it looks like it grew a bit in the description. :coolsmile:

I was just rounding off to the nearest inch...or two