Talk me into replacing my buck 80 insert

[xshmoox]

I’m debating on a new insert this year or possibly a freestanding in the fireplace/hearth . The buck is due for a catalyst replacement as well as a fan motor replacement so I’m looking at spending probably 4-500 bucks. I figured with the tax credit might be a good time to do it. I’ve been running it on a 6” insulated liner with no issues with draft. Honestly they should probably have set this up with 6” based off firebox size. But it’s been a great heater. Can stretch 10-12 hours with active cat. Major downside is the temperature swings we get here in southeast Pa and the stove being to much in the room if it warms up outside. House is 2100ish square feet colonial newer windows, average/below average insulation. Fireplace room is on slab rest of house isn’t. Chimney is 21’ oval duravent.
Lintel height is 29.25”. Slightly . Raised brick hearth extends out about 12”. It’s only a 1 brick height so possibly could extend that easily if need be. Fireplace opening is ~35”. Would also prefer a door that opens on the left side but not a deal breaker as the buck is on the right.

 

[begreen]

If the Buck is in great condition, then it will last a lot longer. If less heat need is anticipated as the day warms up, build a smaller fire and let it go out or just feed it a couple of splits at a time. Is the fan motor oilable, or does it have sealed ball bearings?

For a replacement that offers more control, a Blaze King insert is the best choice. It has the only thermostatically controlled system for a cat stove. This will permit lower burn temps on a load of wood.

 

[xshmoox]

For its age it’s in pretty great shape. Now I did pick it up used for like $400 In 2020. And idk how old the cat was when I got it. I’ve had more cat stalling as the years have gone by so I m thinking it’s time. I mean it’s fully in tact and it’ll light off but I suspect some of the cat is dead as I get a decent build up in the flue with dry wood. Fan motor is oilable but I believe it’s original. Plus someone cut off the 2 lower speeds like flush which I really want to utilize since high speed even with the rheostat to low is still objectionable to be in the room to watch tv with. But I will give it that this thing does move some air. I love the look of the sirocco/ashford 25 but I don’t think they will give me the burn time on the colder days and heat capacity, but I could be wrong

 

[xshmoox]

Also the fact that it’s on the 6” liner not sure if insurance would deny any claims since this is a 8” liner stove so if that’s the case that’s also another reason I wanted to switch. I only really went that route initially due to budget and unit supply at the time was rough/too long of a wait.

 

[begreen]

Blaze King makes several inserts. They take a 6" liner. They're quality units with good support.

 

[stoveliker]

The BK inserts can go up to 20-24 hrs *on low*. How high you need to go when it's cold I don't know, but of course the burn time will be much reduced then. If I would guess, running them full bore would give you 7 hrs if you are able to pack the box full (which is a bit less convenient for the BK inserts as the box is less square)

This is based on my free standing 30 box stove. ("3" cu ft, = 2.9, whereas the inserts have 2.5 cu ft (probably with a similar precision as my "3", and noting the non-square box). I get 8-10 running high. I think some folks can get it to burn down in 6 hrs, but presumably that's not the same BTU content as my oak.

The problem is that either you get a stove with the burn time on cold days AND you overheat the room (because the stove is too big), or you get a stove where have to reload a bit more often and don't overheat...

 

[xshmoox]

Yes well aware of the bk units., which I what I was gonna go with in 2020 but due to supply and budget I went this route. I thought people were saying the sirocco/ashford 25 weren’t as satisfied with the actual vs advertised burn times unlike the princess which seems to perhaps operate a tad better. I don’t really push the buck 80 hard it’s usually when it’s down to coals and cat is still active I reload, char the load in and put the air to the lowest I can based off outdoor temps to prevent from going to low to stall the cat. Then blower usually always rides on low til I go to bed then I’ll move that to about medium to push more heat when it gets colder at night so the kids don’t get to cold. The cat can ride up to 1600 on the colder days then slowly taper down overnight, warmer days with less draft I’d say it’ll ride 1200ish or so

 

[xshmoox]

I was also thinking maybe one of the flush mount hybrid units might be a good option since they will throw a lot less heat with the fan off but could still push 12-14 hours between reloads. I see regency just came out with a 3 cubic foot flush mount hybrid which could maybe be an option

 

[begreen]

I was also thinking maybe one of the flush mount hybrid units might be a good option since they will throw a lot less heat with the fan off but could still push 12-14 hours between reloads. I see regency just came out with a 3 cubic foot flush mount hybrid which could maybe be an option

Might work. It's a good looking new insert. Being new, we have no user data on it. Could be a nice choice. Their pro line models are good stoves. The design emphasis appears to be primarily a cat stove. Looks like it uses a massive cat similar to the Jotul F500v3. It also has proprietary refractory instead of firebrick. Might be worth asking what a replacement costs for these parts if that is a concern. Their CI2700 has been out for awhile and uses more conventional firebrick.

 

[xshmoox]

I stopped by the local regency dealer on my way home they had their ci2700 floor model on sale for a little over 4k. I inquired on the i3000 and they literally had it dropped off today from their rep hadn’t been uncrated yet. They opened it up for me since they hadn’t seen all the inner workings from the show they went to. It’s a reallllly nice looking unit. Door/handle/latch are a fantastic feel. Single air slider. Bypass is easy to maneuver. I asked him if I could buy that as they were going to swap a unit on the floor out to show it. He said we are here to sell stoves so absolutely. Gave me a price. Looking right at $6k before tax for unit with standard surround and blower kit. Of course surround and blower aren’t included they are extras. In my opinion blower on a insert should be standard included options. But whatever. This unit does use a variable speed blower unlike their other inserts are 2 speed.

 

[stoveliker]

Did you listen to the blower? Ask them to plug it in and have a listen.
Not that I have knowledge of it being bad or good, but given your complaint I'd see if you can get to hear the thing run before you buy.

 

[xshmoox]

Did you listen to the blower? Ask them to plug it in and have a listen.
Not that I have knowledge of it being bad or good, but given your complaint I'd see if you can get to hear the thing run before you buy.

It was still all boxed and I didn’t have time today for that unfortunately. But I can guarantee you there’s no way it could be louder than the Buck 80 blower that’s a big motor that moves ALOT of air. If I go back I’ll have them do it and find out about the refractories and cost for those although they felt pretty stout

 

[EbS-P]

I’m all for saving money. New cat and blower could take this stove another 5+ years. I any other heating cooling upgrades you are considering? Heatpump, insulation air sealing for example (tax credit eligible).

I have a heat pump and went with the cheapest decent insert I could get, a Drolet 1800i.

 

[BKVP]

I agree. Put in a new cat and blower. You know what you have, how to operate it and you can wait 5 years (or more). A lot can happen in 5 years.

BKVP

 

[xshmoox]

Well i do hvac. And i do need to replace my ac and air handler but riding it out til all the kinks of the new refrigerant phase out are sorted. I have a gas baseboard boiler. The walls are whatever insulation they used around 1969 when the house was built. Attic has had some insulation added so it’s not terrible that’s something I’ll tackle when I’m done adding lights/ceiling fans and what not in the 2nd floor. I’m not against replacing the parts in the buck. I was just weighing my options since the tax credit as well as I’m not sure on the legality standpoint of having the unit reduced to the 6” liner.

 

[BKVP]

Well i do hvac. And i do need to replace my ac and air handler but riding it out til all the kinks of the new refrigerant phase out are sorted. I have a gas baseboard boiler. The walls are whatever insulation they used around 1969 when the house was built. Attic has had some insulation added so it’s not terrible that’s something I’ll tackle when I’m done adding lights/ceiling fans and what not in the 2nd floor. I’m not against replacing the parts in the buck. I was just weighing my options since the tax credit as well as I’m not sure on the legality standpoint of having the unit reduced to the 6” liner.

Unless Congress changes it, the IRS credit runs until 2032.

 

[xshmoox]

That’s a good point. I may just get a cat and fan motor, and keep an eye out for something used at a good deal. Like a princess insert. Which I woulda had over this but the guy backed out of the deal.
Maybe if I wait long enough Woodstock will design an insert lol

 

[xshmoox]

So my wife and I have come to the conclusion of just leaving the buck 80 as is unless I can sell it and liner and putting in a free stander in the large living room which is more open to the rest of the house and upstairs and would do a much better job of heating the entire house. Eying up a used ideal steal, a lopi rockport, a isle royal, and an older princess model pej1006. My question with the princess is what are the main differences between that version and the new one as I see the new version burns a good bit cleaner. Is it that much better or not much notable difference?

 

[BKVP]

Manufacturers have been required to retest stoves (all) for compliance due to changes in test methods. The differences in results are all about the actual tests, fueling etc. The PE32 and the PE1006 are both excellent heaters, just always be careful buying used ANYTHING.

The PE1006 was an excellent heater and if you can get a used stove for a great price go for it. Check it out thoroughly. Flashlight, looking at everything. The age of the combustor would be nice to know as well. Get pics, post them and folks here will try to help, regardless of the model you find.

BKVP

 

[xshmoox]

Here is a rough layout it’s approximately 1k feet per floor. The buck is currently in the room on the left which is closed off other than 2 small openings so it gets roasting in there. If it wasn’t on slab and border the garage it would be worse here’s pics of the princess manufacture date of September 2006 not sure how long it’s been in service. But doesn’t look overly terrible. Trying to get it for around 750 or so

 

[BKVP]

From what is visible, looks good. If you can get a picture down through flue collar with bypass open, that would be helpful.

BKVP

 

[xshmoox]

Ok. So the rockport and ideal steal are out. Now we are down to beautiful brown enamel isle royale in about as perfect condition you can find for its age with most of piping I need for 2k, the used princess, new sirocco 30 display unit for 3k but a 4 hour drive each way, or brown enamel fully loaded Ashford one local dealer has on the floor full price obviously.

I didn’t make it out to look at princess in person like I was going to unfortunately.

 

[stoveliker]

If it were me, I'd get the display sirocco. Great price for a new stove.

 

[xshmoox]

If it were me, I'd get the display sirocco. Great price for a new stove.

I was leaning that way would still need to add fans. Only downside is the 9ish hour round trip lol.

 

[xshmoox]

Well wife’s opinion was she wanted the enamel ashford after seeing it on the showroom floor. Order placed. Gotta order up at least the through the wall kit to get that started. What brand is everyone running? All I know is I’m not getting Ventis, it’s just too much $$. Also have to get through a layer of brick on exterior anyone have good ways of making that large a hole without doing damage to surrounding brick. Was thinking of angle grinder with the correct blade for the job.