Burning while away from your home

[jimdrea]

It's a process of learning your stove. We had a Napoleon 1402 installed last March. My sons away at school abd my daughter is a senior in highschool. So this stove is my hobby. We use the insert to supplement our oil usage. So far this year I'm saving over 75% on oil used. For burns when noone is home I echo what alot if others have said. I rake the morning coals forward sometimes emptying some of the coals so they spread evenly. Add wood open the air intake all the way and wait for the stove to heat up. This morning I waited to the automatic fan kicks on and the external temp was 600. The secondaries were going then I close the intake all the way. This took about 30 minutes. My daughter comes hom at 3pm and I return at 5pm and fill it up again. My house will stay a comfy 70 degrees till I get home. We bought a large fireproof hearth rug that catches any embers that fall out. This forum has helped me greatly and I hope it helps you.

 

[Everhard]

I'm a shift worker (including my commuting time I'm gone at least 12 to 16 hrs depending on day or night shift) and like you I try to keep my bills down - in my case the house is heated by electric baseboards when the fire goes out so my goal is to keep the house warm enough till I get back so that the baseboards don't kick on.
As stated above it starts first with building a comfort level and that comes with learning how your stove operates. Once you know 100% how to set your stove so that it will only burn slowly for hours then leaving it becomes no issue. (Assuming the other safety points listed above.)
Now to talk more about keeping your house off propane - you'll need a big stove I bought this house 2.5 years ago it came with a BIS Ultima which is a 2 cubic foot insert. My guess is that this was sized for the house before the previous owner built the addition to the house. (it's now 2,000 square feet) I found it did a decent job heating the house when the temps were not crazy cold (I live in the country north of Toronto Ont.) I did find it took a while to warm up the house if it was cold and it couldn't hold the temp long enough to keep the baseboards from kicking back on.
So last year before the winter I looked into my options - I considered everything from propane wall heaters to pellet stoves and finally decided on a wood stove - long story short I ended up with a Drolet Austral. Note that I'm lucky in that my house design lends itself to being easily heated in every corner of the house.
Originally when I decided on a second stove I thought I would have to go with a smaller unit (cost of purchase - I thought the only way insurance would cover me was if it was bought and installed by a certified installer, once I found out that it only required a WETT certificate once installed my situation changed drastically, along with the final bill! - my finished installed cost was $2,000 vs close to $4,000 quoted and that was for a smaller stove)
In your case you've an even bigger house then mine - go big Particularly if you want to heat for long periods of time.
The Austral is a 3.1cf firebox and the difference is huge between it and the Ultima. (ok different design also plays a factor insert vs stand-alone.)
A large stove will pump out useable heat for a long time - for example I can be gone for 16hrs when it's minus 20c outside overnight and come home in the morning and the house will have dropped from 22c to 16c. At that point there will be coals so large that after raking them into position I can then reload the stove with only large chunks. (normally 4-8inch diameter wood)
While I love the Ultima there's no way it can do this - it couldn't maintain the heat or the ease of relighting it after such an extended period. When I only had the Ultima I would close off the rooms not used in the house and set those baseboards to come on at a low temp now I have found I can keep those doors open just enough that they maintain the same temp as the rest of the house and so those baseboards also don't kick on.
So what I'm saying is the larger stove is heating more house with ease and that in return means my electrical bill is staying low. Granted the flip side is I'm also using significantly more wood but even factoring that in, my cost my final savings is so large the stove will actually pay for itself after 2 years. (that's a conservative estimate, by that I mean the $2,000 I spent buying and installed and the additional wood burned will equal what I'd have spent trying to heat the house - and that's while using the Ultima and being very frugal with the baseboard heating.)
Like I mentioned before I'm lucky in my house design which makes heating it from top to bottom a breeze, additionally I have no basement. There's no question the house layout will effect and impact how easily you'll be able to heat the house and therefore keep your propane bills down. Any good installer should be willing to go to your house free of charge to look at what you have and quote you on the best setup for your house.
I have to say having 2 stoves gives me huge flexibility now with heating the house - I can run with the Austral on it's own as it can heat this house regardless of the outdoor temp but the beauty of both is I can leave the baseboards to only kick on at their lowest temp setting (they are on a remotely controlled thermostat) and then when I get home say after a couple days away when the house has cooled right off, fire both up and in literally no time at all the whole house warms up. And it doesn't matter how cold it is outside either.
The other bonus is when it's really cold out and I am home I can run the Austral where I load it once every 12hrs and then I keep the Ultima going thru the day - neither stove works hard at all, which means I'm using the least amount of wood to keep the house warm - by warm I mean the temp thru the whole house is maintained between 21-23c. Big difference from last winter where my goal was to keep the house around 18-19c.

As for what brand quite frankly my 2 cents there is buy anything over 3cf firebox size and make sure you're happy looking at it because it's going to sit there for a long time! So you might as well be happy looking at it. If it's installed properly (well designed venting/chimney and proper location in the house) it will pay for itself.

There is another consideration if you plan to run your stove enough to significantly reduce your propane bill - burning wood means more labour for you - you don't mention if you burn wood where you are now but it is a big consideration - at a minimum you will have to stack wood somewhere reasonably close to the house, you will ideally want a stock of wood in or by the house such that you don't have to put on boots and coat every time you need to load the stove. If you further want to reduce costs that means either harvesting the wood on your own property if that's an option or buying full length logs and cutting/splitting them yourself - all of which is a lot more work vs turning up the thermostat on a propane furnace. It's a very different lifestyle choice, but I'd say it's a very big consideration - heating your 2400sqf house is going to mean a lot of wood if you plan to maximize the wood stove.

Well enough from me, hopefully some of my experiences above will be of use.

E.

 

[Calentarse]

Hello. Wow. You've been flooded with information on wood burning. I don't have much to advise regarding the burning while away. I do it 24/7 in the winter and never think twice, but as explained by many people here who are more cautious than I, it's all in accordance with your comfort level. You will develop this over time when you install your stove. Nothing you can do about that now but I do feel you will be okay with it after owning and operating the stove for some time.

Regarding the brand of stove, I had a non-cat "secondary burn" stove which also doubled as a "catalytic" stove before I bought my Blaze King and I hated the operation of it. In a small rancher, not being able to turn the heat down was a big bummer. Even in winter no one wants to be too hot in their own home; however, I do not feel that you are in that situation. I just don't believe in that technology anymore after I purchased the Blaze King. So, if you feel that style of stove is right for you, get a good relationship set up with the dealer and really have a support group ready.

Personally, I believe in the Blaze King methodology of operation (catalytic). I love walking outside and seeing no smoke coming from the chimney the majority of the time! I would advise you to purchase a stove that doesn't radiate heat if you will be putting it in a small room. My Vermont Castings was in a small room and it just got too hot. Clearances had to be larger as a result and even still, my walls were too hot. I prefer the catalytic operation of a Blaze King because the burn is controlled and allows you to close the clearances as well. As a result, I feel that it's safer. If you are able to get an 8 inch flue, I'd go with the Blaze King King model if you have the money. Evidently, Woodstock stoves operate similarly but I can't speak to their stoves.

I do feel that I should mention a problem I am having with catalytic stoves in general and that is the odor of burning this style stove. No one really talks about it but be aware that when burning long and slow like Blaze King stoves allow you to do that you may get some fume/smoke odor in your home. Now, I am burning with existing single wall pipe and this is not recommended with a Blaze King (so for all we know, if I put in double wall for the 6' stretch in my house I wouldn't have this problem). Your house is large and since it's 2 stories your draft may eliminate this issue altogether, but I just want to make you aware that if you have allergies or a sensitive nose, you may take that into consideration if you intend on burning long, slow, relatively cooler fires via catalyst. If you are to have an awesome draft and only burn your stove on higher temps, this evidently is not much of an issue.

Happy hunting and I wish you the best! All I know is that having wood heat growing up, I could not switch to any other heat. Heat from a heat-pump was a joke!

 

[peakbagger]

All the concern goes away if you install a boiler with thermal storage. Crank the boiler full bore to heat up the tank and then heat the house off the tank while you are gone.

 

[Offset]

Well I have never had an issue but I always feel guilty leaving the dogs alone with the stove running. I try to do the right things consistently with the stove. Sweeping up after every load, inspecting the area for anything out of the ordinary, double check the air flow and that the door is indeed closed tightly. At night I always come back after five or so minutes and check, with the lights out, for anything burning where it should not be.

I think the more comfortable you become with the stove the better you will feel. Just don't take anything for granted. There is lots of important information on stove operation and safety and I would suggest spending some time just browsing in the forum.

 

[firefighterjake]

Random thoughts . . . but mostly just echoing what others have said . . .

Almost every one of my fires is pretty much the same as the fire before it . . . what I mean by this is that I burn pretty much the same way regardless of whether I am up and about on the weekend, putting in a load during the evening after work, heading to bed for a long sleep or loading up before work. The only thing different may be the amount of wood and type of wood (primo, large pieces, etc. for those long overnight or heading to work fires) . . . otherwise I load the stove in the same fashion, take the time to get the stove to "cruising speed" and let 'er go.

Different folks, different levels of comfort . . . some folks have no issues right from the get go, others never get quite used to leaving the stove or heading to bed with the fire raging . . . and other folks learn to get used to it after a while. It took me a week or two of camping on the sofa in the living room with the woodstove at night before I finally felt comfortable going to the bed rather than couch . . . and about as long as it took me to get used to leaving the stove going and then heading out to work . . . cannot tell you how many times in those first few weeks I would be 3 minutes down the road and then turn around to double check the air setting or to make sure all was good.

Good burning habits and good burning practices start early . . . get in the habit of always doing the same thing correctly and after awhile these habits will be ingrained . . . such as never leaving the room with the door left ajar, always making sure you turn down the air control, etc.

Time is the one thing that is perhaps most important . . . leave yourself some time to get the fire going again. Generally, reloading the stove and getting to "cruising speed" is something that will take 20-40 minutes . . . sometimes shorter, sometimes longer. The one thing I never do is leave the home with the fire not adjusted . . . I will not let it smolder or let it rage with the air control left all the way open. As a result, this can sometimes present a problem. This morning for example I woke up late and probably should have let the boiler kick on (I have the thermostats set to kick on at 60 degrees F). Instead I tried to get the fire going and it was one of those mornings that proved to be a challenge for whatever reason . . . ended up getting in a half hour late to work . . . it happens.

Babs had a good point . . . working smoke detectors and carbon monoxide detectors are important . . . very important.

 

[BobUrban]

I always feel guilty leaving the dogs alone with the stove running

I feel the same - my solution that remedied many problems for a single dude that has a random schedule so from one day to the next I may be home all day working in the home office/dining room table or gone 12+hrs with clients or coaching.

I have a dog door and they self police as well as providing an exit in an emergency.

We even have training sessions for what to do in the event of an emergency(when a smoke alarm goes off or the power goes out my dogs race to the back yard) They hate the noise or lack there of, in the case of power loss, and that gives me some peace of mind.

 

[Fsappo]

If a new to wood burning customer asks me if its safe to burn the stove over night or while away, I'll say "I do it all the time, but I feel safe" Don't try it at first, but after you get used to the stove, you may start doing it as well. As BG mentioned, comfort comes with experience.

 

[kborndale]

The way I look at it, if your furnace is gas or oil it is a metal box with a fire burning in it. A wood stove is a metal box with a fire burning in it.

 

[Dix]

The way I look at it, if your furnace is gas or oil it is a metal box with a fire burning in it. A wood stove is a metal box with a fire burning in it.

I agree.

It's also a huge learning curve.

I feel very comfortable burning 24 / 7

Which is good, because the oil burner doesn't work

 

[fire_man]

Just remember: Fire is not our friend nor our enemy, it merely obeys the laws of physics which we can understand.

 

[Starstuff]

I think that I Googled "burn wood 24/7" and that's how I discovered Hearth.com and a similar thread as this last year. It was enough to convince me to buy a PE Super. Never looked back and have never turned the heat pump on since (except when on vacation). I've been lurking ever since, but thought I'd make my first post here to add to the overwhelming body of evidence that should convince you that it's safe and effective as long as you are responsible. Make sure you've got a lot of good dry wood!

 

[BradleyW]

I feel better knowing my woodstove is running while I'm at work than my furnace. Took me about three seconds to get used to that idea.
But seriously, get comfortable with it and be safe. Don't feel pressured to do anything you aren't sure about.

 

[davidmsem]

I'm new as of December and now very comfortable. I think it is more likely a problem to start a fire by the reloading then running. But I'm a newbie.

 

[chance04]

Unless your home had some major work done to improve insulation and airtightness, you are not going too big with those stoves. In fact, they may not be quite enough to keep the propane furnace off when it gets really cold outside.

Make sure you have plenty of dry wood (less than 20% internal moisture). Once you have your stove take your time to learn the ins and outs of the stove over some weekends. Soon you will feel confident enough to just let it go once the air is turned down and the stoves cruises along nicely. Smoke and CO detectors are still a good idea, though.


A modern, secondary burn stove like the ones you are considering cannot be "burned slow". They will reach a cruising temp of usually 600 F to 700 F to burn clean and efficiently even with the air turned down all the way. For a lower, prolonged heat output you need to consider a catalytic stove like a BlazeKing (30 series, Princess or the King) or a Woodstock (Progress Hybrid, Ideal Steel).

I wish I had done some more research before buying my secondary stove. It works really well, just runs me out on those days in the lower 40s when it's to cold not to have something and too warm to have this thing cranked up burning were it should be. The wife is gonna kill me when I sell this thing for a hybrid.....[emoji51]

 

[BrotherBart]

You do not have to have the stove blasting away to burn clean with good wood. It was certified clean burning at low burns. Don't buy all of the "secondaries" stuff you see here.

 

[chance04]

It's an old Dutchwest 2478. I don't have tubes to monitor, I have to rely on the rumble. But I understand what your saying

 

[cheechblu]

Also invest in a high quality ash can that you can dump your ashes in away from your home, on a non- combustible surface. Just one habit to establish among the many said above, towards your peace of mind.

 

[firefighterjake]

You do not have to have the stove blasting away to burn clean with good wood. It was certified clean burning at low burns. Don't buy all of the "secondaries" stuff you see here.

And to add to that . . . you can achieve a good clean burning secondary burn as well without overheating the place . . . just use less wood and don't reload quite so soon . . . or at all.

I'm not perfect and will admit that there are a few times each year when I miscalculate or get a little too excited and end up overheating the place . . . but I could count these times on one hand. It is very possible to burn clean, efficiently and not live in a sweat box while using a secondary burner.

 

[Calentarse]

And to add to that . . . you can achieve a good clean burning secondary burn as well without overheating the place . . . just use less wood and don't reload quite so soon . . . or at all.

I'm not perfect and will admit that there are a few times each year when I miscalculate or get a little too excited and end up overheating the place . . . but I could count these times on one hand. It is very possible to burn clean, efficiently and not live in a sweat box while using a secondary burner.

I see what you're saying and totally agree with you. My only issue was trying to get the 20 hour burn times. Heck, I could hardly rekindle a fire after loading it up on a cold night. With air totally off, I'd come out to ash. Not so with the Blaze King!

 

[eladdvf]

Thanks for all of the input. My dryer is electric fortunatelly.

 

[chance04]

My electric drier vents too the outside, therefore it draws air from the inside. Or at least I thought

 

[rdust]

I was burning 24/7 on my second day after installing my first stove. I figured if it was going to burn the house down I'd rather not be in the house when it happened.

 

[chance04]

Lol