Burning Wood Is More Expensive Than Gas!?!?!

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I don't have a splitter or a saw (yet!) But I know someone who does, and he will come over and take care of the job for a nominal amount of money. Cheaper than renting the splitter.

It's like chickens :) Even if the cost of managing a flock is more that buying eggs at the store, there's a value there beyond money.
 
I ran my numbers on the DOE website. Even using the premium price of $285/cord that I paid for kiln dried hardwood (inc. delivery), my cost of heating with wood is LESS THAN HALF of heating with propane (at $3/gallon). Once I start using wood that I cut myself, my savings will get even better.

Oh - and my house is warm for the first time since I've lived here.

- Rich
 
That must not include the delivery charges.

Where I live Ive got one of the cheaper gas companies in the state (NStar) and they charge anywhere from 40-60 cents per therm for delivery charges (tiered - lower the more you use). Add to that the supply cost of gas, which was 38cents early in the year, 22 cents at the end of summer and just raised to 81 cents for winter.

So in the summer to heat water our average cost with charges was around $0.75
In the winter our average for 150-200 thems per month we use will be about $1.20

I've done the math and the break even on wood is around $275 a cord. Ive buying burning green a year ahead at 150-200 per so I am a little ahead. If I had the space for grapple loads I could get that down to $50 per. And then its a total no brainier.


Sounds like wishful thinking on the part of whomever posted that sign.
 
I scanned this thread kinda fast. I just have one question. WHERE THE HECK ARE PEOPLE PAYING 200-250 A CORD? Around here 100-125 is the norm for a whole measured cord of Ash or Oak. And that can be a hard sell. My neighbor can"t sell the most beautiful fully dried Ash for 130.00 dollars. So just were in the HECK in this country do people pay those rates. Maybe I need o send a semi there to sell my wood.
 
Backwoods Savage said:
I won't even check their figures, but....

Well, well, well. According to these guys, I've lost a ton of dollars over the past 50+ years because I stupidly burn wood. Not only that, but if I burned NG, which I can't, I could turn my thermostats down, put on some extra clothing and be uncomfortable all winter. Because I burn wood, I don't turn the thermostats down, I remove clothing (indoors) in the winter and I am very comfortable all winter. But it costs me a lot of money....at least according to those guys. And how many people can get by with 30,000 btus?

Not only the above, but I also own a chainsaw for cutting the wood and I am constantly buying gas and oil for the saw; I have to purchase chains for the saw and I have to buy files to sharpen the things. I own a splitter and I have to buy gas and oil to run it. I own an atv and a trailer for hauling the wood and that atv takes gas and oil. I just purchased a new trailer this summer so there is another $400 I spent. In addition to that, I also own an axe, splitting maul, sledge hammer, 3 iron wedges, cant hook, chains, come-a-long, etc. Man, that is a tremendous investment!

In addition to the above, we purchased a new wood stove 3 years ago. At that time we also put up a SS chimney and also built a new hearth. Well, the stove and chimney were costly. But, my neighbor owed me some time and dollars so he built the hearth for us and even put up the chimney. The stove was purchased at a big discount so that was worth a lot.

In addition to the above, I spend a lot of time cutting, splitting, stacking, moving to house and all with the wood. Then there are the ashes to contend with and the mess it makes wherever you split wood and the messes with ashes, etc. It takes space. We just put up a new shed and a portion of it will be used for wood storage.

So what have we got for all of this?

In our case (I have more experience with our own rather than using someone else's situation), we have a few extra things. Like the atv, but even without cutting firewood we would have an atv. The trailer; even without hauling wood we would still have that trailer. The saw; even without cutting firewood we find we have a need for the saw. The splitter. This is an added expense and tool. We have owned it a bit over 20 years and paid somewhere around $800 for it. That's $80 per year. We have taken in perhaps $1000 (probably more) so that brings the cost down a bit. Still not cheap but I would hate to be without one. The hydraulic splitter was purchased after an injury made it almost impossible for me to split the wood by hand. The various tools like cant hook, axe, etc. are minimal cost and will last a lifetime. Still those dollars could have been put in a bank to earn 1-2% interest!

I have no idea how much time I spend annually with the putting up of the wood but is this not better than paying and having to drive to a gym? The body needs exercise and I enjoy putting up wood a whole lot more than doing some silly exercises or having to drive somewhere and pay to sweat.
All in all, we have burned wood for a good many years now and have never regretted it. I have a problem visualizing us not burning wood so long as we live in the north. I'd hate to be without it for sure. We do stay much more comfortable with wood heat and it is better for the environment. In our case, we own a woodlot so the wood is there. We could just leave all the trees that die every year for the woodpeckers and insects, but they still have plenty. Overall, for me, it is the fact that I can be comfortable in my home during the coldest part of winter. Of course, that means I usually stay at home during winter because when I go to someone else's place I almost freeze! Another benefit is that my wife is able to do a lot of cooking on our wood stove which saves the dollars we would normally spend on LP. If the neighborhood gets cut off from electricity, like during some freezing rain period, the neighbors come here to stay warm.
A couple other points is the fact that I can sell firewood to earn back some of those dollars. I also can use some firewood as a tithe or as a goodwill offer to some folks not as fortunate as I. It is written, "...Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me." So we do every year try to help some of those folks....but we do it not expecting anything in return. We've even been known to dump some wood in somebody's driveway when they were not home. Hopefully they never find out where it came from.

So maybe the wood burning has cost us over the years. I can't really put a pencil to it exactly but methinks it is not true at all. I believe we have saved a lot of dollars over the many years, have received much satisfaction for doing for ourselves and others, have received much benefit with the exercise and the very best part is that we will stay very comfortable in our home rather than having to live in a cold house. The rest is all gravy. Also, most folks have hobbies; what's wrong with having wood cutting as a hobby? Does it then cost you as much? You get back a lot in return for a little money spent.

Well said Dennis ! Nice.
 
I don't count any NG charges that are not based on usage because they are fixed costs to me (gas range & hot water). I count usage and delivery charges based upon therms.
 
Dennis,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Sometimes we must compare and try to reduce costs, but overall it is important that we don't loose sight of the fact that life is short.

The quality of life and the enjoyment we get from the way we choose to spend the time we have left is of far greater concern than a few dollars either way.

The stove I'm installing in my shop will end up costing about a thousand dollars with pipe and everything ready to go.
I already have a NG. heater that keeps it warm, but I prefer burning wood.
It is a desire to do something I enjoy.
I doubt I'll save much, if any money on my heating bill, but it isn't about money.

Rob
 
A bit late to the party here...

This sign is clearly a marketing 'data sheet' designed to be biased toward selling gas stoves. I have little doubt that the numbers can in fact be proven out with the proper calculations. The "trick" if you will is that they have chosen to compare based on a meaningless common variable and not display what really matters here. They are using the $/HOUR as the emphasis - as if somehow that is a comparable "equal" basis on which to compare heating appliances. Sure (they want us to think) we'll run our heat all the time during heating season so why not? The heating appliances are not comparable in this manner - how do we use them?

Assuming one were to heat the home with the given appliance...

A gas stove will be run near continuously - burning the fuel at a constant rate to heat. Easy to calculate cost/HOUR.

A wood stove cycles - load/burn/cool/wait?/repeat - how long is the cycle? how much wood? do you take peak BTU and calculate wood consumed to maintain that to get your fuel cost/HOUR? Hmm... not exactly specified in the display eh? I suspect the methodology is something along that line. They don't even say how many BTU they are expecting eh?

Furnace is generally controlled by a thermostat and will cycle on and off. When it is on it burn at a very high rate, but nothing when it is off. I'll bet they calculated the cost/HOUR only when the furnace is actually burning (hmm... how hot would the house get if furnace ran 24/7?)

Clearly they are not using a constant for BTU/day (or the Furnace / gas stove) would only vary based on relative efficiency of the appliances.

Bottom line - this sign is marketing BS. It is a shame that there are not enough educated consumers to see through this material and call the vendors/shops on such attempts to mislead people. Yes, the sign may well be factual but it really has no value in making an economic/purchase decision.
 
wkpoor,
Here in NY, "seasoned" firewood goes on Craigslist anywhere from $180-$250ish per cord. The average probably being about $200.

As far as the cost of burning is concerned, as a newbie it's priceless. Just as I was reading this thread, my wife jokingly complained that it was too hot downstairs - 71* with the insert running. If we had the oil furnace on I'd have it set at about 64* and even in the dead of winter, it never goes up past 67*-68* and live with being a bit chilly. Last year we spent over $2000 on heat and h/w. Needless to say, we are enjoying the warmth of our new stove and every time I fire it up, all I can think is, "I'm already saving money."

What truly convinced me to go with an alternative energy was a couple years ago when oil was well over $4.00 per gallon. It really angered me that the oil man had us by the throat and there' was nothing we could do about it. Well, I decided to do at least a little something. To be honest, I was torn between a wood stove and a pellet stove. After much research I went with the wood stove.

Here's why: With a pellet stove, I HAVE to purchase pellets - there are no other options, and when the price of oil goes up so does the price of pellets (manufacturing, shipping, etc.) And after doing the cost comparison, a pellet stove is more expensive initially than a wood stove and the way I figured it, the cost of pellets didn't really outweigh the cost of oil, so I might as well just turn up the thermostat.

With a wood stove, if I apply myself I can get a lot of wood for free. I am off all summer and have the time and now I know, the ability to c/s/s my own wood. Yes, it has been a lot of work, but so far I am enjoying it. I have spent a few bucks on things I wouldn't have needed had I not chosen to burn, but the peace of mind and comfort level that I already enjoying has far outweighed any costs I have incurred.

Okay, that's my 2 cents. Thanks.
 
No idea about those numbers, but my log loads run me $75/cord. After processing, I estimate that cost to be closer to between 80/cord. I use 2/3 cord/ month, average, for about 7 months. Less than $60/month to keep the house nice and toasty. We've not run the wall furnace full time since we moved in, but I guesstimate gas would run between 200-300/month (have a gas 92% efficient furnace in the shop that we used for a season, at 60 degs. highest bill was over 400).
Conservatively, I think we save at LEAST $1000/year by heating with wood. Propane could be had(expensive, and fluctuates), I could install a boiler (gas, oil, or propane to fire is expensive, and fluctuates)for radiant, install a heat pump (electric rates are pretty steady,....so far), or run electric (see prior note). They all have a cost, and every time I look at it, firewood is less.
I scrounge some every year, so that drops the overall cost to burn even more. If I still lived in the city, I can see where this would be more difficult to do. I'm glad we live here, now.
When burning nat. gas, I had to work to make the money to pay for it. When burning wood, I have to work to make the money to buy, and work to process wood.
In that sense, it takes less to use wood.
To summarize, yeah, I don't think so.
 
Natural gas is cheaper than buying wood. Wood is great for those of us who can cut/scrounge our own, but if I had to count the dollars to time spent its tough to see a profit. Its not hard to see the price of NG go through the roof as soon as we have a tiny squeeze. Its been 2yrs since I paid $4.00 for heating oil and I will NEVER forget it.
 
wkpoor said:
I scanned this thread kinda fast. I just have one question. WHERE THE HECK ARE PEOPLE PAYING 200-250 A CORD? Around here 100-125 is the norm for a whole measured cord of Ash or Oak. And that can be a hard sell. My neighbor can"t sell the most beautiful fully dried Ash for 130.00 dollars. So just were in the HECK in this country do people pay those rates. Maybe I need o send a semi there to sell my wood.

Im 30mi west of boston.

Anywhere within an hour the the big northeast/west coast cities wood will be pricey.
 
Trying to figure out exactly how much it costs to heat via whichever way is going to drive many crazy. Too many intangibles. I like the fire. I like my fireplace. I enjoy the woodstoves and running the chainsaws. I don't mind the clean-up and the stacking wood and whatever. It is a way of life, I don't recall even sitting down and trying to determine whether it is worth it.

In our case, I know it's worth it as we have nearby wood on our own place and neighbors' places. In 40 years, I have spent maybe $1400 on chainsaw purchases and two of those three are still running strong and will maybe last me the rest of my life, barring accident. Last year, I kept a record, just for grins, and for 3 cords of wood, I spent about $20 on fuel and oil for the two saws. Total. I probably have $200 worth of chains and most of them I've been using for many years. I haven't worn out a chain in well over a decade.

There was, and is, of course, major physical labor involved in felling, bucking, hauling, and splitting and stacking the wood. Big deal. I'd rather do that than work extra to pay someone for gas. My choice.

Not to say there is never a reason to figure out whether something is worth it or makes economic sense. I suppose if I had to purchase firewood by the expensive cord, I might limit my burning to a fireplace for ambience. Maybe.

I don't use a splitter, I do it by hand with a Fiskar's. I sharpen my own chainsaw chains 100% of the time. I did invest in materials to build a 5-cord wood shed. So there are expenses with wood. I have a 500 gal. propane tank I bought, used, for $225 to save paying the monthly or annual lease, and it holds 425 gal. propane. So, at times it can be $1000 or so to fill completely. I wait for "sales" which don't come often, but meanwhile, that much propane lasts us roughly 7 years. [We use it for stovetop cooking, the baking/oven stuff is wood cookstove, and our water heater is wood-fired, so propane lasts us a very long time.]
 
Here in southern Ohio wood is very plentiful and if you apply yourself even the slightest wood can be free at worst. I'm at least 5yrs ahead for my own needs with a good sized log pile waiting. Her there is no money in FW probably cause its so plentiful. If I could get anything near 300 a cord I might consider quitting my job hehehehehe.
 
wkpoor said:
I scanned this thread kinda fast. I just have one question. WHERE THE HECK ARE PEOPLE PAYING 200-250 A CORD? Around here 100-125 is the norm for a whole measured cord of Ash or Oak. And that can be a hard sell. My neighbor can"t sell the most beautiful fully dried Ash for 130.00 dollars. So just were in the HECK in this country do people pay those rates. Maybe I need o send a semi there to sell my wood.

Right now, a full cord of Oak in this area runs $200+. In a couple of months there will be at least one guy on CL selling "seasoned" Oak at $300. A cord of mixed soft and hard woods runs $150-$200. Lots of wood burners in a higher density area where there are plenty of softwoods and not so much of the hardwoods. Still, I've never had to pay for firewood.

BTW, the numbers on that flyer are totally wrong, but working out the numbers for my own heating needs, I've always come up with NG cheaper than buying wood. The maximum price I could pay for wood and still come out ahead came to ~$75/cord. I'd pay $100 for a cord of truly dry Oak even though it would be more expensive, because wood heat is more satisfying in every way. Luckily, a little hustle has always been enough.
 
I cut my own wood, I enjoy the work and get the wood for free. There are of course expenses involved with heating with wood, and getting that free wood, but they are so minimal that they are not worth factoring in.
Now if for some reason I had to start buying my wood, due to injury or some other unforeseen cause, I would start to look at things differently. I can tell you right now though, I would never pay $300 per cord for wood, so that cost calculation sign at the beginning of this thread is meaningless to me. It's obvious that if you have to pay for your firewood, as the price per cord goes up, at some point it will become cost prohibitive to use, just like anything else.

Please chime in here if any of you hearth.com members are paying $300 (or more) per cord.................? Perhaps some other members in your area can help you to rectify that situation.

When we bought our current house we did a major renovation that included installing a HVAC heatpump system, and if you don't know most heatpump systems require a backup, or auxiliary heating method for quick heat, or when it gets too cold outside for the heatpump to operate efficiently. Because we have a NG line that runs in front of our house we briefly considered having a high efficiency gas furnace as the back-up. Problem was the monthly surcharge for NG. Something I don't think is factored into the cost calculation sign at the beginning of this post. We didn't mind paying the money to have the NG system installed as a back-up to the heatpump system, but there was no way I was gona pay $30+ monthly surcharge just to have the privilege of having NG line hooked up to our house. Especially when it was only a back-up, not something that would be used regularly.
As it worked out, we simply went with the cheaper route and had an electrical resistance element installed, something that never gets used. The heatpump system works wonderfully as an central air-conditioning system in the summer time, and will add to the resale value of the house, if and when we ever sell, but for heating in the winter we rely on wood, and let the heatpump have a rest. :p
 
i prefer wood heat over gas.
 
Carbon_Liberator said:
I cut my own wood, I enjoy the work and get the wood for free. There are of course expenses involved with heating with getting that free wood, but they are so minimal that they are not worth factoring in.
Now if for some reason I had to start buying my wood, do to injury or some other unforeseen cause, I would start to look at things differently. I can tell you right now though, I would never pay $300 per cord for wood, so that cost calculation sign at the beginning of this thread is meaningless to me. It's obvious that if you have to pay for your firewood, as the price per cord goes up, at some point it will become cost prohibitive to use, just like anything else.

Please chime in here if any of you hearth.com members are paying $300 (or more) per cord.................? Perhaps some other members in your area can help you to rectify that situation.

When we bought our current house we did a major renovation that included installing a HVAC heatpump system, and if you don't know most heatpump systems require a backup, or auxiliary heating method for quick heat, or when it gets too cold outside for the heatpump to operate efficiently. Because we have a NG line that runs in front of our house we briefly considered having a high efficiency gas furnace as the back-up. Problem was the monthly surcharge for NG. Something I don't think is factored into the cost calculation sign at the beginning of this post. We didn't mind paying the money to have the NG system installed as a back-up to the heatpump system, but there was no way I was gona pay $30+ monthly surcharge just to have the privilege of having NG line hooked up to our house. Especially when it was only a back-up, not something that would be used regularly.
As it worked out, we simply went with the cheaper route and had an electrical resistance element installed, something that never gets used. The heatpump system works wonderfully as an central air-conditioning system in the summer time, and will add to the resale value of the house, if and when we ever sell, but for heating in the winter we rely on wood, and let the heatpump have a rest. :p
Everything you wrote here I ditto 100%. In fact I am going to install an electric furnace for many of the same reasons. My wood burner heats the house but if we go away I'll still need a back up. And gas heat costs even when your not using it.
 
When I bought my first stove I also bought 1 cord of oak at $240 and after burning it, looked at our fuel costs and realized I had broken even as we had saved $240 in our gas bill. Not exactly what I had in mind when I bought the stove.

Haven't bought a stick of wood since.

Now, if I could just stop buying stoves and saws. ;-)
 
Please, I can guarantee you that the cost to heat my home, I use fuel oil, will be SUBSTANTIALLY lower using wood. I do get my wood for "free". Yes there is a cost for tools, time, and fuel, but I do not buy my wood. Even if I did buy my wood my savings would be substantial. Add to that the falling dollar, which will raise fuel prices of all types quite a bit over the coming years, and the increased demand and dwindling supply, wood burning will become even more economical over the coming years. Then as was stated earlier in the thread all of the upfront costs are fixed over a very long term, for some tools, for the lifetime of burning, there is no way in hell that any other source of heat, save perhaps, solar or geothermal (both have extreme upfront costs so savings may never be seen) could be more economical, at least here in the US.
 
wkpoor said:
I scanned this thread kinda fast. I just have one question. WHERE THE HECK ARE PEOPLE PAYING 200-250 A CORD? Around here 100-125 is the norm for a whole measured cord of Ash or Oak. And that can be a hard sell. My neighbor can"t sell the most beautiful fully dried Ash for 130.00 dollars. So just were in the HECK in this country do people pay those rates. Maybe I need o send a semi there to sell my wood.

+ 1
 
Slow 1:

"A gas stove will be run near continuously - burning the fuel at a constant rate to heat."

I have a 15-year old propane gas log stove in my cabin that has a built-in thermostat. The stove cycles on and off, depending on ambient temperature. Our gas logs in the fireplace here in Richmond just come on and stay on whatever flame level you set. Our gas-fired boiler for our hot-water radiators here in Richmond has a thermostat, so the gas cycles on and off.

I think it just depends on your setup. Our fireplace gas logs are primarily decorative...the others are intended as a primary heat source.

P.S. Anybody want to buy my propane gas log stove? With my new woodstove, who needs it?
 
Now that I have the Regency upstairs, it will heat my house for the most part, The oil burner only comes on if it is really cold.

I probably paid around $800 before the stove.

Last time I bought oil was June...09. I figure I saved a few bucks. :cheese:
 
No such thing as "free" fire wood. But I am willing to pay, and actually enjoy the "costs" associated with owning my own little wood lot, and being able to provide heat no matter what, for my home. 2 chainsaws, trailer, and I use my lawn tractor to haul wood. All of which I had before I owned a wood stove. So I don't really count the cost of those. But my labor and consumables for fire wood processing sure aren't "free" but I do enjoy using them.. and hey, it keeps me out of the bars during the day. And on my power bill, even with our fairly short heating season, I am not paying $600+ a year on my electric bill..

Our install cost $4200, we got back $1250 or so on our taxes, so in 5 years, it's all payed for.

My wife points out I DID buy the Fiskar's SS since putting in the stove.. so I guess I have to amortize that cost in.. ;-)
 
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