yes, thanks. I really like the BK stoves and I'm hoping the 2-3ft of vertical rise before horizontal isn't a deal breaker. If so, I've got a lot more research to do before picking a stove.
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Buying new stove / Every dealer tells me their stove is the best on the market. Lol
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yes, thanks. I really like the BK stoves and I'm hoping the 2-3ft of vertical rise before horizontal isn't a deal breaker. If so, I've got a lot more research to do before picking a stove.
Had to reread this. This is not a clearance requirement, it is a vertical rise before going horizontal specification. The concern is having adequate draft because the flue gases are taking 2 - 90º turns. How tall is the chimney from the thimble to the top?
Yes thank you, bad wording on my part, I’ll edit the post to make it more clear. The chimney from thimble to cap is close to 21ft
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I talked to my BK dealer (who is also a certified chimney guy) today and he said there are no Ashford 30 stoves available right now and I’d have to wait for the next production run if this is the stove I really want.
We talked about the install and he said that I probably don’t need to put a 6” liner in my chimney since my flue tiles are in good shape (he was the last guy to service and inspect my chimney). Apparently he thinks I have a good enough draft for the Ashford 30 and won’t have a problem with the lack of 2ft ‘vertical rise before going horizontal’ problem mentioned a few posts ago in this thread.
Everything I’ve ever read on this site has said how important it is to have an insulated liner for these newer EPA stoves to get the proper draft. I don’t know what to believe. Right now on my current stove the draft is reversed (I haven’t had a fire in a week) and I’m getting that stove smell in my basement. It has been happening the past few days. Is that an indicator that my draft already sucks or is it just a barometric pressure issue?
We talked about the install and he said that I probably don’t need to put a 6” liner in my chimney since my flue tiles are in good shape (he was the last guy to service and inspect my chimney). Apparently he thinks I have a good enough draft for the Ashford 30 and won’t have a problem with the lack of 2ft ‘vertical rise before going horizontal’ problem mentioned a few posts ago in this thread.
Everything I’ve ever read on this site has said how important it is to have an insulated liner for these newer EPA stoves to get the proper draft. I don’t know what to believe. Right now on my current stove the draft is reversed (I haven’t had a fire in a week) and I’m getting that stove smell in my basement. It has been happening the past few days. Is that an indicator that my draft already sucks or is it just a barometric pressure issue?
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darktower007
Feeling the Heat
I had to wait 5 weeks for my Ashford 25 insert... and another week for delivery. Glad I waited.. they rock!
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I'll let others comment on the implications of the reversed draft.
I believe I know your BK Dealer/chimney guy as I use him too. He's very good and very practical. I won't put words in his mouth, but I suspect he meant that if you don't want (or can't swing) to do an insulated liner at this time, you can probably get the stove to run without it. But you won't be getting the most out of the stove.
MANY folks, perhaps the majority out there running stoves, probably have sub-ideal installations. And they make their stoves run and heat well enough....most without even knowing it should be working better. Same with those burning wet wood.
But as you read here, if you want that extra performance, which includes stable, long burns for a BK, you'll want draft conditions (and wood MC) as ideal as possible.
My $0.02: I don't know your heat demands, but especially if you foresee wanting low burns, I'd go for the liner from the start. Doubly so if you don't have VERY good wood ready to burn.
My Ashford will happily cruise for HOURS with stack temps @~28" above the collar of less than 225 deg F, if I turn it down. These things just don't waste much heat up the flue. I'd be worried that you may not pull enough draft to be able to run the stove when turned down lower without the liner. If you plan to run it higher all of the time, perhaps you won't see much of an issue...but then you're not getting the real benefits of a stove like the Ashford.
There's also the maintenance/safety issues to consider. The creosote many see from BK's in their caps will likely form in your tiled flue as it will be cooler there.
FYI: I also had a ~4-5 week wait plus a week of shipping a few years ago on my BKA and that was ordered in the later fall, not mid-winter.
jetsam
Minister of Fire
I'd be really cautious about listening to anyone who is trying to sell you on the merits of clay tile over insulated liners for woodstoves. Even if he is hoping to drum up a few extra chimney sweeping appointments per year, that is not very responsible.
Will the stove still be a box that you make fires in if you have a clay flue of unspecified size? Sure.
Will the inside of your flue be the same temperature if it's uninsulated large-cross-section clay or an insulated correctly-sized liner? Not even close.
kennyp2339
Minister of Fire
Insulated liner should be a must, especially if your chimney is located on the outside envelope of your house, also double wall out of the stove into (2) 45's rather then (1) 90deg elbow, this creates less turbulence and will provide better draft.
brenndatomu
Minister of Fire
A lined chimney will be much easier to get turned around if you experience draft reversal on a cold start.
And I would much rather have a lined (and insulated) chimney if I ever were to experience a chimney fire!
And I would much rather have a lined (and insulated) chimney if I ever were to experience a chimney fire!
I just went through this myself.
As to availability, 3 dealers I talked to in mid-December said the new run of Ashfords would start shipping in early to mid-January (so anytime now). However, I got lucky and the 4th dealer actually had a Chestnut model in stock, which is exactly what we wanted. So I drove a couple hours the next day to get it.
With pictures in hand, I talked in-depth with 2 of the dealers about the whole chimney issue. Both said exactly the same thing as you were told (although I have close to 3' of rise before horizontal), that is to try the install and add a liner only if needed. I had a limited window of opportunity to swap stoves, and based on the fact I never had draft issues with my old stove, I went ahead and installed it knowing I may need to add a liner later. So far my stove is running great, but I have not burned in weather warmer than 33F, and it's too early to tell if I will develop a creosote problem. I will say that it maintains better flue temps than my old stove, which I did not expect to see based on information I've read. I'm leaning toward a liner anyway, but I'm in a wait-and-see mode.
With that being said, I do not have a basement install and it sounds like you already experience some draft issues, so you may be a candidate for a liner, or at least have another issue to resolve before installing a new stove.
Thanks for the replies. I'm probably going to go with a liner just for peace of mind.
What is the difference in the Ashford 30.1 and 30.2?
What is the difference in the Ashford 30.1 and 30.2?
Speculating, but the 30.2 is 2020 compliant and the 30.1 was not? Hopefully a resident expert can chime in...
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Tegbert
Feeling the Heat
No both are 2020 compliant. They just made changes to something on the unit. Most times it is unnoticed unless you deal with them all the time.
Lopi Rockport
Blaze King Ashford 25
Hey @Tegbert I considered the Lopi Rockport stove when doing my research. Do you prefer your Lopi or your BK?
Tegbert
Feeling the Heat
I like them both for different reasons. They are both beautiful stoves and great heaters.
The lopi seems to get up to temp quicker to close the bypass. But is harder to load fully.
The bk is easier to load but for me takes longer to get going and with such a huge door can leak smoke when open. But turning down the thermostat helps with that. It’s wide range of outputs is what shines here.
If the lopi was in the bk spot I’m not sure we would have a second stove. Where the lopi is it heats about half our house perfectly but that is because of its location where as if it was where the insert is it might have done better. Even so just running it the room that is the coolest is still at 66-67 so it works but it also looses heat faster and cools off and will drop to 60-61. I only say the lopi in that spot because I purchased it without much research. Not saying that I choose that over the bk but it was the initial one I had if that makes sense.
Lopi Rockport
Blaze King Ashford 25
Thanks. My Lopi dealer told me that I shouldn't expect to get 10 hour burn times out of the Rockport, so that was a factor in choosing the BK over the Lopi.
Tegbert
Feeling the Heat
He would be right. The most I have gotten was 8 hours from closing the bypass to waking up to a cat temp of about 350 and stove temp around 300 or so. So probably less than 8 hours but it was a quick and easy relight. The bk is better for my work schedule and keeps the house consistent but the lopi the house would start to cool off and be another cold start. But still would be warm enough inside.
Lopi Rockport
Blaze King Ashford 25
shoot-straight
Minister of Fire
i have 2 20 deg offsets a mere 8" above my stove, then 28' of insulated ss liner. draft is fine- too much. i have a turn damper to tame it a bit.
spend the $$$ and insulate that liner now.
spend the $$$ and insulate that liner now.
I'm glad to hear this. The greatest value of a cat stove is during shoulder season burning when one want low and slow burns and reduced btu output. That is when the chimney system must be optimal and keep flue gases hot for consistent draft and reduced creosote buildup.
The basement installation and current indications of draft reversal are 2 strikes already. I would do everything possible to improve draft including using double-wall stove pipe, softening the 90º turn by using 45º elbows with and offset, putting in an insulated 6" liner and connecting the stove with an outside air supply. In addition I would look at and address any and all exterior leaks in the floors above. Look at recessed light fixtures, attic vents, attic doors or ceiling grilles, leaky windows, etc..
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