Buying one fireplace to heat 3 rooms

[Starter]

Hi, I am very new to this topic and I'd appreciate any advice I can get.

We're planning to buy a fireplace for the house we've been living in these last four years. The house is quite large - downstairs it's 'open-plan'. I live in Malta (so please excuse my English!) so another problem is that it's really not that common for houses to have fire places, but ours does get uncomfortably chilly in winter and considering very hefty utility bills it's also cheaper in the long run.

Our plan was to have the fireplace in the hall downstairs, we set our minds on a woodburning one, the one with the glass, and the power is 16KW. Now the issue is that we wanted a system where with one main fireplace downstairs we could also have pipes (I don't know if that's the correct term) and a blower, to heat these rooms upstairs: daughter's bedroom which is the one directly above the fireplace, bathroom which is next door, and the main bedroom which is ensuite to the bathroom.

Now my first problem is that our dealertold us not to expect any great heat to the upstairs rooms, and he was of the idea that we purchase separate fireplaces for those rooms.... He keeps insisting that he doesn't have confidence that we'd be satisfied. But I'm sure in other parts of the world where it's colder this system is not unheard of. And I somewhat think that he isn't confident because his largest fireplace of 16KW isn't large enough for the job... but then I don't understand much about fireplaces either.

My husband's idea was that since all the rooms have access to the central courtyard, we could have the chimney go up the courtyard, and also the vent pipes would be outside in the courtyard, insulated. That way all stuff will be in the courtyard and the inside of the house would be neater. The longest vent pipe would be the one leading to the main bedroom, probably around 10 or 12 feet long.

However the dealer (who's still insisting that the system won't be that great) suggests that we pass the chimney from the inside, up through daughter's room, up through washroom floor and through washroom roof. That means we have to pierce a hole in 3 floors rather than one hole through the wall into the courtyard. But he says having the chimney inside means more heat, and will automatically heat daughter's room and washroom without the need for separate vents. However, if we do it from the inside like he says, the vent pipes to heat bathroom and main bedroom will have to pass above the bathroom soffit (false roof), with the vents being near the roof which doesn't sound much like efficient heating to me.

Any ideas or help please?
Btw the bedrooms are both 16"x18ft, bathroom is 12"x6.

Thanks!

 

[begreen]

If you can post a simple diagram of the floorplan, that would be a great help. Your need is a common one, though the layout is not.

The dealer has the right idea, he must be the only stove dealer on Malta . An interior chimney will burn better and cleaner and the mass of brick will radiate some heat back into the living space. Can you give us a make an model of the unit that he is recommending?

 

[Starter]

Thanks for answering my post.

I just made a plan of the ground floor and of the first floor. The red square on the ground floor is where the fireplace will be. Either there, or in the corner. The small central courtyard is in yellow.

On the first floor I coloured in pink the rooms we want to heat using same fireplace, by the vents and blower system. (I apologise for the quality of the drawings).

As regards the model of the box, we've been to some dealers and seen many boxes - the one we chose is manufactured by Starfire, I'll try to see if they have a website with pictures of the models. We have mostly european brands here... they're all a similar price and I wasn't thinking the brand was that important?

 

[begreen]

Great. The drawings are a big help. There can be a great difference in brands. Can you get a Jotul Kennebec (they may have a different model name in Europe)?

From the looks of it, you may be able to get away with one stove and no ducting, assuming the bedroom doors are normally left open. You have a very mild climate. The stove area looks like it will be directly below the daughter's bedroom so there will be some heat transfer through the floor. It also looks like the fireplace room has a large opening. With a little assistance from a ceiling fan or even a small table fan heat can be made to go up the large open stairwell and should keep the upstairs quite toasty. I don't think the additional vents will be necessary.

Question: Is that the Napoleon Starfire? I'm confused if it is because I thought that was a gas model. Also, is this going into an existing fireplace opening as an insert, or will it be built new from the ground up? If new, have you considered a stove instead? FWIW, there can be a large difference between brands of stoves in heat output, quality, ease of use, style and efficiency. Best to consider all options first before making the final decision.

 

[Starter]

You made me notice a major flaw in my hasty drawing - no the hall apertures aren't as large as that, they're arches which are slightly wider than a normal door, like 4ft wide. I'll attach a corrected drawing which makes more sense. Still probably it isn't correct to scale, the building should be longer.

I did google starfire, and yes practically the only thing that came up was that gas napoleon box, which isn't what I'm referring to. The make of the box is "Bompaq". I can't find it on google. Probably they use different names for different countries? The model name of the box is MADRID, the power is 16KW which converted would be approximately 50,000 BTUs (if I remember correctly?), and the cost of the box alone is USD 1980. (I'm assuming you're in the US?) The cost for the complete installation including box, ducts, vents and stuff came up to USD 4098. Just the barest functioning stuff with no bricks, gypsum or any decorations. But so far it's within budget...

Might I ask to list the advantage of having the chimney inside? My husband is very contrary to the idea, since that way we'd have to pierce three roofs. Whereas were we to have the chimney exit directly into the central yard we'd only be making one hole in one wall and have no 'ugly stuff' inside... On the other hand I think it'd be a pity to have heat from the chimney lost outside.

There is no fireplace opening, we're doing stuff from scratch.
Language barrier - I don't know what a 'stove' is...

We decided on a natural wood-burning fireplace because we are importers and we have all these pallets which are constantly coming and which we have to throw away. Now I've heard that pallet wood isn't the best stuff for burning... but it's gonna be totally free. (In Malta there are no woods where one can go chopping, you'd either have to buy wood or risk a large fine for vandalism if you touch any of the trees here because they're protected by law).

Here's a better ground floor plan:

 

[Starter]

Oh and another thing, our dealer is saying that the insulation wouldn't be working as nicely as we want it to. THEY have to buy insulation from somewhere else because they don't stock it.

Would there really be significant loss in properly insulating a 12' duct?

 

[begreen]

Yes, I am in Washington State, USA. A four foot opening will still work with the help of a fan. I too searched for Bompaq and found nothing. Is the spelling correct?

A stove typically is freestanding. A fireplace is something that is built-in, with a mantle. I've added images of a fireplace, an insert and a stove for you to see. There are many quality freestanding stoves made in Europe. I would consider a Morso (Danish) or Jotul (Norwegian) to start. The fact that Bompaq has no website and no delears posting information about this stove is not an encouraging sign.

The exterior flue will work and if this is to be a metal chimney, then perhaps keeping it exterior will be fine. It will need more frequent cleaning and may not draft quite as well, but it will be much less disruptive to install. However, visually it is not going to be that appealing on the exterior. Do you use this courtyard or is it where all the plumbing pipes, etc. are already attached to the exterior wall? If an interior flue is chose, it should be a thermally insulated pipe (class A in the states) boxed in with proper clearances. Therefore, there won't be that much thermal gain to the interior. When you mentioned fireplace, I thought that this was referring to an existing, interior brick structure.

 

[Starter]

Bompaq is what he said. Now it's extremely difficult to explain the 'q' pronounciation of my language, it sounds like when one is clearing his throat, the first sound that comes out when one does Hmmmmm to clear the throat. I wouldn't blame anyone for not getting it, I used to teach english to foreigners and when they queried that sound of MY language they never could copy it...

But I even googled Bompa and got nothing related to fireplaces. Doesn't sound that great, like you say.

We weren't intent on the stove model, it's somewhat too open, we have the space to have it look better... We were planning on something which LOOKS LIKE your insert, only we build stuff around it to make it look natural.

The chimney is metal, he specified that it's going to be of stainless steel, but our dealer hasn't mentioned any maintenance (EEK!).... Hmmm thanks for mentioning that because it'll be my next question! We don't really use the courtyard, it's very small and we just filled it with plants. And yes it's full of pipes as well.

Now I doubt our laws about the standards you mention on the interior flue. The dealer here mentioned that the chimney pipe would be generating a LOT of heat which would be a pity - he even said that we would be feeling the heat as soon as we open the courtyard door... duh From the models I saw at the showroom they just make a stainless steel chimney, cover it with gypsum designs, put in one or two vents to get the maximum heat inside into the room. And contrariwise he stated that were the chimney to be put on the outside all the chimney generated heat would be lost, just because we put it outside and not inside. His idea was to have the chimney inside, put a vent on the ground floor to catch the heat from there, then straight up through the ground through our daughter's room, put one or two vents there (without any blowers) to catch any further heat... then make a ducting pipe going through the false roof of the bathroom and exiting into the main bedroom.

I don't think we have guidelines as to insulating the chimney if it is put inside... I did mention to the dealerthat for safety's sake I wouldn't like a chimney through my 4-year old daughter's room, but he said I could just put a special shield to keep her fingers out from touching the chimney, and I'd be safe and the heat would come through efficiently.

 

[kevinmoelk]

Welcome to Hearth, Starter! Malta! Great! BG is on the case, and I have nothing to add... just reading and learning. Glad to have you on board, hope you stay on after your install is complete. It's great to have an international perspective on the forum! See you around.

-Kevin

 

[begreen]

OK, what you are hoping for is a built-in-stove, aslo know on the hearth forum as BIS. Not my specialty, but I will see what we can find for Europe.

When we talk about installations it is by US standards and international fire code. Whether this is what is required or what your installer is offering is anyone's guess right now. Have everything he proposed put into a written proposal for consideration. This should include recommended piping etc. Then you'll have it in writing and it will be easier to look up and translate. And by all means do get references for other installations and contact those references. I don't know if we can equate European products to US so this may be dead end. They may not use the classA pipe we use. If not, then adequate clearances from any combustible materials is absolutely critical.

 

[nshif]

My concern is this.... If they only have pallets to burn they will be close to over firing any stove. and an inside chimney may be a risk. Also is this even economical at 4K???? just some thoughts

 

[begreen]

There's a lot of unknowns here. How many woodstoves are even installed in Malta and how much does the installer know about residential installations? Are proper materials for a residential installation even available? But we all have to start somewhere. With prudence one can burn palettes. I think we have a couple experienced palette burners here. But for a first time stove experience I wouldn't recommend it. But I'm not sure what options there are in Malta. Gas?

 

[Marty]

I find myself wondering how much space you have in that open stairwell area.

A freestanding wood stove in the middle of the stairs with 3 meters of single wall stove pipe up to a thimble and into a double wall chimney would put lots of heat throughout the second floor. You could put in some transomes above the bedroom doors and heat the living 'bleep' out of that place.

Any pics of that space?

 

[Gooserider]

This sounds like one of the more challenging ones to deal with (though I wouldn't object to going there for a consultation) I would suspect that there are probably few woodstoves in the country, and would strongly suggest checking to see what rules may be in place regarding them - both safety codes and any general regulations.

Certainly it would seem like whatever stove or insert Starter gets needs to be EPA II or European equivalent in order to keep the neighboors happy - no Outdoor Wood Boilers please!

It would almost seem more like a wood furnace would be appropriate since those are intended to connect to ducting, but stoves and inserts aren't (indeed US Codes seem to prohibit it) and at least some claim to be less fussy about their wood supply. (Pallet wood does sound like it)

I'm not sure this is the best place to have a stove, but it's not my call.

Gooserider

 

[restorer]

There's a lot of unknowns here. How many woodstoves are even installed in Malta and how much does the installer know about residential installations? Are proper materials for a residential installation even available? But we all have to start somewhere. With prudence one can burn palettes. I think we have a couple experienced palette burners here. But for a first time stove experience I wouldn't recommend it. But I'm not sure what options there are in Malta. Gas?

Malta's not a third world country. Very sophisticated and quite wealthy.

As opposed to pallets in the US, most international pallets are made of green wood, whatever is available. There was a gate valve company close by we used to haunt their scrap pile for exotic hardwoods. Rough castings were done in China, SE Asia, South Africa, Pakistan, India, etc. Bought the rough stock castings cheap, aged them in their yard and did all the machining here. Valves, 24 inch and up to 15 feet were shipped crated. A friend started scrounging for fire wood, came across some stuff he asked me to identify. Couldn't do it, but it was so dense it sank in water, the moisture meter said 22% moisture. Tried to burn it, but it took a propane torch to ignite. My friend built a backyard fire pit, would get a roaring fire going and throw a few chunks of the black mystery wood. They burned like coal for two days. Tried to cut with my bandsaw and ruined the blade.

Bottom line is you get them fresh you can control the drying. I wouldn't recommend the reused stuff we get here. Although I have had some nice stuff to mill for repairs.

 

[Starter]

Thanks for the welcome.

Yes in my area there are other residences with fireplaces, but many people who do them here do them as a home embellishment, like extra furniture. I was planning on using our fireplace though since it would mean practically free heat for us. The unheated house temperature here would be around 50 or 60 deg F and I would like to get it up to like 75 or 80 deg F, warm and cosy. Probably that's why they're kinda expensive here, because they're not indispensible as heating is in countries with sub zero temperatures.

BeGreen, the dealer assured me that they import quality stuff with EU standards and specifications. I doubt that he wrote the exact standards on the quote though... I think nobody would risk using uncertified stuff here, firstly because stuff which doesn't conform to EU standards can't be imported - I know that because I'm an importer myself... hence the abundance of pallets!

I didn't understand what you mean when you were talking about risks of burning pallets? Overfiring? And having to use prudence? I'm eager to know the reasons. What my dealertold me was that by using pallets our fireplace might not generate that much heat it should generate were we to buy good quality wood.

Marty, I'll attach a picture of the 'stairs' area. To get an idea of the space, the aquarium is 6 feet long. Actually one of the best places to put the fireplace is instead of the aquarium, but it's inbuilt with bricks underneath and practically immovable. Lol I think a stove right in the middle of that place would look bad, don't take offence!

For the information, the whole house is 31 feet wide and 64 feet deep.

The first picture is the place where we're planning to put the fireplace, on the wall of the other part of the hall behind the sofa, next to the window leading to the central yard.

The second picture shows the 2 arches of the hall. Any heat from the fireplace must pass through them to get to the remaining parts of the house. (Somewhat funnily you have to CLICK on the pic to see both arches, in the thumbnail only one shows!)

The third picture is of the centre of the house, where there are the stairs leading to the second storey.

The last picture is of the small yard through which we were planning to pass the vents/blowers to those 3 rooms upstairs.

Can anyone suggest, in view of the above, what SIZE of fireplace box would I be needing? I wouldn't want to have one installed which would be too small... and I'm too inexperienced to know the right size.

 

[Starter]

[Edit: Oops this skipped to the 2nd page! I put photos of my house on the first page... somewhat crude but we're still adding furniture and stuff to the house...]

Someone said that paying 4K was expensive, I hope it's OK if I post here a breakdown of my quote, just to check if it all makes sense.
Here's the quote I have, with the dollar conversion done:

The money is in U.S. Dollars

1 Bronpi Astorga 12KW -- $ 1380
2 Sockets Sol/Flex -- $ 78
3 Meters Flexible stainless steel chimney double skin -- $ 225
8 Meters solid stainless steel chimney double skin -- $ 480
6 stainless steel rings -- $ 36
7 chimney pots plus top wind-breaker on roof -- $ 219
1 reducer stainless steel from 230mm diam to 200mm diameter -- $ 48
2 stainless steel brackets -- $ 78
1 high temperature sealant -- $ 19.5
3 pieces insulation for fire box-- $ 90
13 chimney pots for 1st floor room -- $ 195
4 white vents small -- $ 204
4 ducting x 125 mm -- $ 72
installation -- $ 810

TOTAL 4006.50 US Dollars.

 

[begreen]

The risk burning palettes is that there will be a wide variation in the quality of wood. Some may be green and shouldn't be burned until it's dry. Some will be hardwood, some will be pine. The pine if very dry will flame up quickly and may take one by surprise. It could even lead to a runaway fire (one tht you can't control) if there is too much wood in the stove. That's why I said it is for someone with experience burning and knowing one's wood types will also help.

The yard is what I suspected, it's really a large ventilation shaft which is fine for ducts, but they certainly will lose heat. How much will depend on the length of the run, how well insulated they are, air velocity, and how cold it is outside. If it's 30 degrees, this ducting could actually blow cold air into the rooms which would defeat their purpose. Again, the ducting may be entirely unnecessary depending on the construction of the home, stove output and how cold it gets outside.

Please check on the stove name spelling. It is not showing up so far on European stove manufacturer's lists. Has the installer shown or given you any alternatives?

 

[Gooserider]

Thanks for the welcome.

No problem, glad to help out in such an intersting problem.

Yes in my area there are other residences with fireplaces, but many people who do them here do them as a home embellishment, like extra furniture. I was planning on using our fireplace though since it would mean practically free heat for us. The unheated house temperature here would be around 50 or 60 deg F and I would like to get it up to like 75 or 80 deg F, warm and cosy. Probably that's why they're kinda expensive here, because they're not indispensible as heating is in countries with sub zero temperatures.

Well I'd imagine most stuff would tend to be more expensive given that it's an island and so forth. The prices (I assume they are in Euros?) don't seem that far out of line at any rate.

BeGreen, the dealer assured me that they import quality stuff with EU standards and specifications. I doubt that he wrote the exact standards on the quote though... I think nobody would risk using uncertified stuff here, firstly because stuff which doesn't conform to EU standards can't be imported - I know that because I'm an importer myself... hence the abundance of pallets!

I think the concern is less with the ratings of the stove, though that is important so that you have a clean burning setup, but more with the safety of the installation. Stoves or inserts aren't much of a problem themselves, but we see LOTS of people trying to install them in ways that aren't safe. You will see lots of references in the threads here to a fellow called Elkimeg or Elk for short - Elk is a building inspector by trade, and is our best expert on exactly what the codes require for a safe installation. He says that many of the codes he uses are international standards, but I'm not sure what the references would be on them. I'm sure if he sees this he can give you the exact titles to look at.

At the very minimum, you should look closely at the installation manual for the stove you get, and make sure that you do, or make the dealer do, everything it tells you in terms of clearances to combustible materials, pipe materials and any other details that it specifies. If you have a building inspection department (people that enforce construction codes) I would talk to them and find out what rules they have. In general it is far better to talk to them first on what they want to have you do than it is to potentially have to tear things out and do them over.

Our number one concern when talking to people about installations is to make sure it is done safely as we don't want to see anyone burning thier house down or putting themselves and their families at risk.

One of the things that makes me a bit nervous is the way you are talking about potentially wanting to get heat from the stove chimney. Here in the US, we normally use either a masonry chimney or a very heavily insulated metal chimney (known as a "Class A" chimney) that is intended to keep as much heat in the chimney as possible, and NOT let it escape. Some of this is to prevent setting nearby building material on fire, and some is to keep the inside of the chimney hot which reduces creosote buildup. Extracting heat from the chimney may cause you to have more creosote buildup which is both a nusiance and a fire hazard. There are also rules in the US that say you aren't supposed to have ducts connecting to the stove or fireplace, or close to it. This is intended to prevent the duct system from competing with the fire for airflow, and also to discourage the spread of fire or Carbon Monoxide if something goes wrong... Thus it sounds like some of what you were wanting to do might be a violation of US codes, we want to be sure it's OK there in Malta.

I didn't understand what you mean when you were talking about risks of burning pallets? Overfiring? And having to use prudence? I'm eager to know the reasons. What my dealertold me was that by using pallets our fireplace might not generate that much heat it should generate were we to buy good quality wood.

In the US, pallets tend to be made out of cheap pine or other woods, often kiln dried to a lower moisture content than cordwood , that can have highly variable burning properties, plus it tends to be made of pieces that are smaller than the split logs we normally burn, which also makes for hotter fires. Thus most people consider burning pallet wood to be very risky as it is very easy to have a fire get out of hand and over-fire the stove. Over firing a stove is like overheating a car engine - at best it isn't good for it, and at worst it can cause damage to the stove and even potentially start a house fire. You can burn just pallets, but it takes more care than cordwood, with more ways to get yourself in trouble. At the least I'd reccomend using a moisture meter on typical pieces and learing how to identify the wood types used in your pallets so that you can better predict how a given load of wood will burn.

...

For the information, the whole house is 31 feet wide and 64 feet deep.

So thats about 4,000 square feet since it's a two story house. However I seem to remember that you weren't wanting to heat all of it. How much area were you wanting to actually heat?

(Continued in next post)

 

[Gooserider]

Judging from the pictures, you might not need that much in the way of duct work. I agree with some of the others that it looks to me like it should be possible to get a nice airflow going that will spread the heat through the existing structure, though you might need to play with setting up some small fans to do it with.

Can anyone suggest, in view of the above, what SIZE of fireplace box would I be needing? I wouldn’t want to have one installed which would be too small… and I’m too inexperienced to know the right size.

It's a bit of a tossup. It looks like you have a lot of space to heat, but you don't need to get as much heat since you have a milder climate. How old is the house? How well insulated is it? What sort of windows do you have, and how tight are they? How is the house for being tightly sealed overall? There are a lot of variables.

However my first guess is that I think you would be better off with a larger size unit - we very seldom have posters complaining about their stoves being to big, but lots of folks that found what they got was smaller than they could have used.

I would listen to your dealers recommendations, and if you know other fireplace users, ask them what size they have, how much space they are trying to heat, and how well their units work for them.

Gooserider

 

[Starter]

I found the exact name of the insert: The brand is Bronpi, website is www.bronpi.com

The model name is Astorga.

The specifications I have in the catalogue are:

Calorific power 12KW (10320 Kcal/h)
Vitroceramic crystal 750 deg centigrade resistant
Cast iron and metallic elaboration, anticaloric paint
Ash tray
Two ventilators
Air regulation system
Primary air regulation
Crystal clean system
Weight 125kg (275lb)

It blows air from the front, but there's a lever which allows you to close the frontal air blower so that it blows only through the ducts.

Do you think it is good enough for our purposes?

Oh and the prices I quoted were converted in USD. The insert alone here will cost us USD 1380. It's slightly cheaper than the other one which was larger but it's got the advantage of being able to close the frontal blower and make it blow hot air through the ducts.

As regarding which parts of the house I wanted to heat, it is best explained if you have a look at the first page of this thread - in my second post there I put a floorplan, of ground floor and first floor. The fireplace is the 'red box' in the hall. Any heat which escapes in the ground floor is welcome. But most importantly I wanted to have heat in the three rooms upstairs, the ones I coloured pink.

It shouldn't be a problem for daughter's bedroom. The chimney's gonna pass from there and he'll be making 2 vents for heat to escape from there.

Then we'll make one duct to heat the bathroom, and another duct will go through the soffit of the bathroom to open into the main bedroom.

 

[Marty]

I think in your climate that setup might work out well for you.
But with such a large house you will have to seal off the area to be heated somewhat and be cold elsewhere.
12KW=40,000 btu's so it will not heat the whole place on the coldest days when you want it the most.

You will want to be sure to have a well insulated chimney to encourage good draft.
At the temps you will be burning you'll need alll the help you can get.

Be sure to consult with a building inspector for your zoning regulations before you begin and ask for advice on what to be sure to take into account.
If your stove dealer is installing it be sure he knows that following the code and the manual will be a requirement of yours and that the work will be inspected.
If you install the unit your self you can take pictures and translate the manual for us and post it here... the folks on this forum would be glad to clarify whatever is murky point out things you might not have considered.

As to pallets, start saving the good ones now and get a moisture meter so you have some idea what you are dealing with when it comes time to burn.

 

[begreen]

It sounds like "cold" in Malta is 9 deg. C. If that is correct, then a chill chaser probably will suffice. If you are looking for better heating down to 0 deg C, then a 16kw unit might be better. But I think Marty is correct, The core area will stay warm and you'll want a fan in the fireplace room to distribute the heat out of the room or it will be an oven in there. Ducting should help, though I'd keep it simple. One to the upstairs hallway should suffice. Perhaps one to the kitchen as well? That's where we tend to hang out as a family.

 

[Starter]

It sounds like "cold" in Malta is 9 deg. C. If that is correct, then a chill chaser probably will suffice. If you are looking for better heating down to 0 deg C, then a 16kw unit might be better. But I think Marty is correct, The core area will stay warm and you'll want a fan in the fireplace room to distribute the heat out of the room or it will be an oven in there. Ducting should help, though I'd keep it simple. One to the upstairs hallway should suffice. Perhaps one to the kitchen as well? That's where we tend to hang out as a family.

You're right about the temperature. The 'coldest' NIGHTS here were like 6 deg C. +6 not -6. During the day it's always somewhat 12 or 15 deg C.
Right now at 9PM the temperature INSIDE my house is 16 Deg C downstairs and 18 Deg C upstairs. But we've had an extremely mild and sunny winter so far, which is not normal. However 16 Deg C is not comfortable, definitely not when one is planning to have a shower... brrr I'd love to be able to wear a T-shirt inside my house, rather than 2 layers of clothing.

I would really be buying the 16KW unit... However that unit blows hot air from the front AND from the ducting at the same time.

On the other hand, the 12KW insert I posted the picture of has the option to CLOSE the front blower and have it blow only entirely through the ductings.

I guess that would mean more heat in the bedroom and the hall would be less of a furnace, do you agree? Which means that actually the 12KW insert would be more efficient in my case than the 16KW insert?

Btw I'm somewhat embarrassed to post this but it's the language barrier I think... I've been reading the FAQ on choosing stoves, woodburning etc on hearth.com and there are a couple of words I am not understanding what they refer to. Mainly, what is a flue, a baffle and a damper? :red:

 

[begreen]

You're doing fine and I understand you. When it's "cool" outside, where do you spend most time as a family? That's where I'd want the heat. The 12 kw should suffice for normal conditions, though weather has ceased to be "normal" for a lot of us. If it's 0C you won't be walking all around in a t-shirt, but as a chill chaser, the stove should really help. If the mistrals don't reach Malta then 12kw may suffice. It will certainly help alot. As for the bath, a simple and safe electric heater can solve that problem quickly. No need to heat it when no one is in there.