Can we still install pre EPA stoves that are Brand new? what things do we need to know We are new

[Marie is cold]

How did we keep warm before EPA? I rented 2 homes as a teen way back in the 70's with wood heat. One was a cabin with a firebox Old wood stove it didn't even have brick linings. The next an Old 2 storey farmhouse with a big woodstove in the basement and floor grids on the main and upper floors to allow the heat through them. Both the cabin and the house stayed warm for 12 hours and both had been there with their original heaters for over 30 years. Before we moved in. The soapstone heater has been sitting hooked up for quite a while and has been used as plant stand. We are just looking for tips to see if our installation idea is safe.

 

[bholler]

If some goody two shoes calls and complains that my stove is putting out too much smoke that's tough cookies for them. I don't care about the EPA or their regulations on wood stoves. Each pound of wood only contains X amount of BTU's. I hardly care if the amount extracted is 75 or 85%.

Have you ever run a modern stove? I went from a very good old pre epa stove that had an early clean burn system to a modern one and the difference was amazing. More heat with less wood. How is that possibly a bad thing? I know that i prefer to have to cut and process as little wood as I need to. And how is less pollution a bad thing?

 

[begreen]

How did we keep warm before EPA? I rented 2 homes as a teen way back in the 70's with wood heat. One was a cabin with a firebox Old wood stove it didn't even have brick linings. The next an Old 2 storey farmhouse with a big woodstove in the basement and floor grids on the main and upper floors to allow the heat through them. Both the cabin and the house stayed warm for 12 hours and both had been there with their original heaters for over 30 years. Before we moved in. The soapstone heater has been sitting hooked up for quite a while and has been used as plant stand. We are just looking for tips to see if our installation idea is safe.

That's kind of a silly question. How did folks keep warm before wood stoves? (answer: burning a boat load of wood and not too well at that) Times have progressed and one of the nice outcomes is more heat from less wood.

 

[begreen]

Bad Bad LP...... and yes same story here. What we need to know is how to do it safely, we do love our country home but "wood" like it warmer on Coldest days. Otherwise this "Wood" be a beautiful corneter stand. Here are 2 pics of how wekd like to install it.

Which layout?

What we need to know is about stovepipe and how to build the 1" clearance firewall on 2 sides?

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/wood-stove-wall-clearances-primer.147785/#post-1987380

 

[bholler]

How did we keep warm before EPA?

No one said that pre epa stoves did not heat your house or that they are bad stoves at all. Just that new ones put more of the available heat from each peice of wood into your home. If you choose an old one that is up to you. But you also have to follow your local laws. Where I live there is nothing sayng you cant install an old stove but it seems where you live there may be.

We are just looking for tips to see if our installation idea is safe.

Well no, you asked if you could install a pre epa stove. And you were told that you need to check you local laws about that. As far as safety yes they can be perfectly safe as long as you install them with proper clearances and on a proper hearth.

 

[Bad LP]

Have you ever run a modern stove? I went from a very good old pre epa stove that had an early clean burn system to a modern one and the difference was amazing. More heat with less wood. How is that possibly a bad thing? I know that i prefer to have to cut and process as little wood as I need to. And how is less pollution a bad thing?

Matter of fact yes I have.

I own a Jotul Rockland 550 insert that I bought brand new in 2012 or 13. I forget. A very good friend has the freestanding model so I think I'm a pretty good judge of that model.

I spent last weekend feeding both stoves in Maine. Jotul in the living room and the pre EPA VC in the basement. Both burning the same wood mix out of the same wood pile that is of the same age and MC.

It is my opinion that both stoves performed very well in sub zero temps. I'm also willing to bet that the single 3 foot diameter hoop of wood that I burnt upstairs was very close to the volume I burnt in the basement stove.

While it if tough to compare apples to oranges in my application that VC put out some heat and as expected it would feel different due to the insert being the comparison. They clearly fit the same number of sticks and were loaded at the same times for the most part. Neither stove ever went out nor did one burn more than 5 hours without getting a refill.

The only thing that is really noticeable is the amount of smoke emitted out the chimney. Both are smokey on start up. The VC remains a little more smokey and smokes about 5 minutes longer until established.

Finally. The Jotul was almost 4K including the required SS 6" liner inside my 8" tile. The VC was 500 plus some new 8" pipe running into a 8" tile. I already own the crimping tools.

 

[bholler]

Finally. The Jotul was almost 4K including the required SS 6" liner inside my 8" tile. The VC was 500 plus some new 8" pipe running into a 8" tile. I already own the crimping tools.

Well if you installed an old insert you would need a liner as well. But as far as free standers go many new stoves will work fne on an 8" clay lined chimney yes they will work better with a liner but so will old stoves. Also it is not a fair comparison because you bought the vc used and the jotul new. If you had gotten the jotul used the prices would have been much closer obviously a brand new stove will cost allot more than a used one. And honestly if you are only getting 5 hours out of the jotul you are either pushing it pretty hard or you are doing something wrong


Now I am curious why you made the statement about letting the epa into your house when you already have an epa approved stove?

And why on Saturday you asked what the moisture content of wood was but now you know more about the differences between modern clean burn stoves and classic ones than someone who has been doing this for a living for over a decade now.

I am by no means anti classic stoves I had one for years that I loved and I know many people who still happily use them. But just because you can get an old used classic stove cheap does not mean it is better than a new one. Just that it was cheaper.

 

[Bad LP]

Wow are you a pain in the ass.
You clearly have butt hurt from the 2016 election.
Do you work for the EPA or have any relation to an environmental group?

If you want to nit pick details go for it one at a time after answering my last sentance.

Ask a question and get a reply.

 

[bholler]

Do you work for the EPA or have any relation to an environmental group?

no I am a chimney sweep. I see the results of modern stoves and classic stove in the chimneys every day. This has absolutely nothing to do with politics the new stoves burn better and cleaner hat reduces the chance of a chimney fire and gives you more heat in the house for each piece of wood. If you want to cut more wood to prove a political point you go ahead but I will be happily burning less wood in my new stove. Now what moisture content is you wood at? Maybe we can help you get your jotul working the way it should

 

[rwhite]

Seems like a 5x4 will be enough for a non-corner install. The corner install doesn't seem like a good idea. By the time you get 12" clearance on the corners of a 26" stove and the 18" on the front you're gonna be way out into the living space. Why not go up with the chimney rather than right out the wall? I'll bet your gonna have a constantly cold pipe and chimney which probably won't draft worth a darn.

And folks around here aren't the EPA police, they are trying to warn you what is possible if you install a stove that is not to local code and something happens. You can bet if something ever did happen the 1st thing an insurance co is going to check is if it was installed to code even if the code has nothing to do with the incident (such as installing a non EPA stove). There reasoning will be that a fire may not have started because it was a non-EPA stove but that it shiuldnt have been there in the first place. And they dont have to come into your home to see if you violate emmisions. All they need is a complaint and to measure obscurity of the sky a certain distance above the chimney.

You did ask "if" you could install not "how".

 

[fibels]

Babaganoosh. Hi we have not purchased it and the shipping would be astronomical across Canada to eastern US. I would be using it only for supplemental heat when it gets below -20C here as our dining room is large and has lots of windows and is chilly then. Saw it at a Wheelrights shop, brandnew and wondered if we might install it, and what we should consider. As in what hazards to watch out for when installing, distance from walls etc.

I owned the Woodstock Classic.It has a CAT and because of this it should still be certified.It takes a 6inch pipe.Call Woodstock and check but I think they'll say your good to go.

 

[fibels]

Have you ever run a modern stove? I went from a very good old pre epa stove that had an early clean burn system to a modern one and the difference was amazing. More heat with less wood. How is that possibly a bad thing? I know that i prefer to have to cut and process as little wood as I need to. And how is less pollution a bad thing?

Which stove was that ?I'm interested.

 

[bholler]

Which stove was that ?I'm interested.

the old one was a cawley lemay 600 the new one is a regency 3100

 

[fibels]

the old one was a cawley lemay 600 the new one is a regency 3100

I never heard of the Cawley Lemay.Did you say it rivals the new stoves in heat and burn times?

 

[begreen]

History of Cawley Lemay is in the Hearth wiki.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/wiki/cawley-lemay/
FWIW, it took some convincing to get bholler to put in an EPA stove too.

 

[bholler]

I never heard of the Cawley Lemay.Did you say it rivals the new stoves in heat and burn times?

No I said exactly the opposite. For a stove designed in the early to mid 70s it was pretty far ahead of most others out there for efficiency. But nowhere near the new stuff

 

[bholler]

FWIW, it took some convincing to get bholler to put in an EPA stove too.

Well I wouldn't quite say that it just took the right stove at the right price coming along.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

Wow are you a pain in the ass.
You clearly have butt hurt from the 2016 election.
Do you work for the EPA or have any relation to an environmental group?

If you want to nit pick details go for it one at a time after answering my last sentance.

Ask a question and get a reply.

Hi Bad LP- I know how you feel about your stoves. I own and burned a 80s vintage VC Resolute for over 20 years, and just started on an EPA stove last winter.

That said, bholler knows what he's talking about. Everything he has told me has been spot on. His delivery is straight and to the point which is refreshing to me, but some find it a little off putting. He does get defensive at times, I think because he's a professional trying to help us here on his free time, and lots of people pay him for his considerable knowledge and experience in this realm.

Wouldn't you get frustrated if some layperson in whatever field you are an expert in, that you were trying to help, second guessed your (professional and free) opinion?

Please consider that he is still trying to help you even after you called him a pain in the ass and brought your political frustrations into the conversation. I am sad that clean air is still a polical issue for anyone at this stage of our human experience. Go visit China if you can't remember the way things were right here in the 70s. And, ironically, bholler's lack of political correctness and straight talk seems to align pretty directly with your side of the fence. Or, is that only a good thing if his opinion is the same as yours?

We are all brothers and sisters here, Merry Christmas!