Can you really not buy a wood insert for less then 2000 or am I just missing something

[newbie 08]

I have read and posted here for the past few weeks and I have talked to several dealers about several brands of stoves. The only one I can can find under 2k for the insert itself is the engalnder and I have been told the firebox is to small for all night burns or for 24/7 burns. I considered it a great price for 1150 or even less with a lowes coupon but how come every other insert I can find is over 2k. I have looked/discussed with dealers lopi, country, and quadrafire and even for their smallest inserts they want over 2100 not including liner or install. Is there a decent an insert out there for under 1500? The installers I have talked to want 1300 for install plus liner and I cant image adding that to the 2-2.5k dealers want for inserts. Should I really need to shell out 3500 plus for a basic all black small insert to heat 1500 square feet? Why are larger freestanding stoves so much cheaper? I would almost go that route but it would look stupid with our current fireplace.

Otherwise, how hard is it and where can I find instructions on installing an insert and liner myself? Also good place to buy an insert?

 

[Jimbob]

This one can be had for $1000 CAD.
(broken link removed to http://www.drolet.ca/product.aspx?CategoId=7&Id=428)

 

[newbie 08]

Same size firebox as the englander. From my reading I probably need 2.2 square foot firebox.

 

[tkirk22]

I was talking to a local Lennox stove dealer the other week who provided me with some enlightening info.

First, he wants to make $300-$500 profit per insert. At the sale price tier he was in, he had to sell the small insert with some accessories at $18xx dollars. He went on further to say that if he sells enough stoves he will be in the higher sales tier and he will be able to buy stoves at about half of his current price.

That's a lot of markup in my opinion.

Inserts have extra metal, back panels, blowers, etc that add to the cost which they then markup.

 

[TMonter]

That’s a lot of markup in my opinion.

That depends on the quality of the support given, however you can haggle with most dealers and they will come down in price, especially if you let them know their needed support will be minimal.

 

[RedRanger]

The drolet is an excellent product for 1000K. The price for the install and liner seems a little high to me. The "key" there is to buy and get it installed in the summer when those guys are not very busy. Eg: my sweep charges a different price for Jan. than he does for July. A little more money $1875 in my location for the PE Pacific (2.3 cu.ft firebox) Even during the slack months you are still going to be paying over $2500 with the install and taxes. IMHO you should wait till the summer to do this, winter is half over anyway.

 

[jlinke]

The Lopi Revere has a 2.2 cubic ft firebox, and I was able to get it for around $1500 including the blower. It was a year or so ago but I think that was the going price. (blower was thrown in for free).

 

[newbie 08]

Lopi revere with blower my dealer quoted me 2350 yesterday.

 

[Greg Ray]

I bought my Revere last month for $1850 with blower.

 

[wallis54806]

I would question the need for an insert with a firebox bigger than 1.8 cu. ft., unless you are set on long overnight burns. Of course I don't know your home's insulation, windows, or volume, but in my 1700 sf. home in far northern Wisconsin my 1.7 cu. ft. firebox heats our house with outside temps around -5 deg. F. An insert won't heat as well, but in Indiana how many below zero days do you have?

 

[webbie]

You will find some threads on the forum that show the complete lining job. If you are handy and not scared of heights, it can be done for as little as $400 in material....closer to $700 if the liner is wrapped with insulation.

If price is a big object, consider a hearth stove without all the panels and blowers...you'll get more for your money.

As far as markup.......as it is with autos, customers don't really know (now should they) the total actual dealer profit. But the guy making $300 to $500 an insert will probably be out of business before very long.....it takes a larger markup than that to provide services.

Some quick numbers.....dealer sells 300 stoves per year (mid-sized) and makes $400 each (as per your "guy) - that is $120,000 total profit. Add another $80,000 in "profit" for installations, service, accessories, etc - for a grand total of 200K of gross profit.

2 full time employees = about 100K+ when expenses and tax are figured in.
Rent, utilities = 30K per year
Insurance = 10K per year (probably more)
Truck, postage, phone, ads, etc. - 20K per year
Accounting, Book keeping, interest charges, bank cc charges - 10K per year

Let's see- without even getting started, that is 170K a year, so our stove owners (a couple in many cases) bring home 30K gross for all their trouble.

As you can see, the stove biz is difficult once you move the operation out of your garage (many of us started that way). Think about an operation with 5 sales people, 2 service folks, a couple office staff, a warehouse, etc.....and you'll get the idea!

 

[kah68]

You will find some threads on the forum that show the complete lining job. If you are handy and not scared of heights, it can be done for as little as $400 in material....closer to $700 if the liner is wrapped with insulation.

If price is a big object, consider a hearth stove without all the panels and blowers...you'll get more for your money.

As far as markup.......as it is with autos, customers don't really know (now should they) the total actual dealer profit. But the guy making $300 to $500 an insert will probably be out of business before very long.....it takes a larger markup than that to provide services.

Some quick numbers.....dealer sells 300 stoves per year (mid-sized) and makes $400 each (as per your "guy) - that is $120,000 total profit. Add another $80,000 in "profit" for installations, service, accessories, etc - for a grand total of 200K of gross profit.

2 full time employees = about 100K+ when expenses and tax are figured in.
Rent, utilities = 30K per year
Insurance = 10K per year (probably more)
Truck, postage, phone, ads, etc. - 20K per year
Accounting, Book keeping, interest charges, bank cc charges - 10K per year

Let's see- without even getting started, that is 170K a year, so our stove owners (a couple in many cases) bring home 30K gross for all their trouble.

As you can see, the stove biz is difficult once you move the operation out of your garage (many of us started that way). Think about an operation with 5 sales people, 2 service folks, a couple office staff, a warehouse, etc.....and you'll get the idea!

Well said, there are always people out there who think they know what it costs to run a business, many of them have no clue but just think you are gouging them when they can buy it for a few hundered less down the road. I know in my business people look at the product and say 'Sure is expensive for what I get'. I offer them to come tour the plant and see the people, buildings, machinery and inventory, then if they don't get it I will give them an idea of the costs they cannot see associated with running my business. Some take me up on the offer, most don't but the ones who do usually realize I'm not doing it out of my basement!

 

[Chettt]

Winter will be leaving soon, wait for the spring sales and get a good Century or Englander. Check with a chimney sweep or two and see if they'll help you install the liner.

 

[newbie 08]

Ok, Englander owners. Could I burn 24/7 with the 13nci? Usually in bed 1030-11 and get up about 630. Wife would be home for lunch at 1130 and could add more on the fire then I get home again at 630. What do you think from those who actually have one? If I am going to put the money into a new one I want one that will keep going easily.

 

[karl]

I bought PE Summit insert for $2045 and the liner was another $349. That was off Ebay in July. Everybody here said that was a very good deal. I have paid for the liner in money saved so far this year. Not bad for November and December. I'm guessing I'll have the insert about a third paid for by spring, and the house is MUCH, MUCH, WARMER!

 

[jghall]

I just purchased a Buck Stove model 74 (pre fab approved) insert from my local dealr... It has a 2.6 cu ft firebox and is doing a great job heating my 2200 sq ft 2 story cape cod... $1720.00 with blower... Flue liner was $470.00 and I got a great deal on installation $400.00... I loaded it up when I got home from work at 12:30 last night and when I got up at 8am it was still full of coals and hot... Removed a few ashed, raked coal bed to the front and re-loaded... Filled her up again at 3:30pm (before I left for work and my wife just said its still putting out heat... 3 big loads (about 4 - 5 splits each load) runs 24hrs...

 

[lloyd1]

does anyone own a quadra fire 2700I/ or a avlon rainier 45 insert. how do you rate it and any postive/negative comments.

 

[JMF1]

My brother has the Ranier and loves it, he heats about 1500 sq ft