Can't get Appalachian stove hot

[Chad984]

Hello, new guy here. I just bought my first wood stove and I'm having trouble getting it hot. It is a new Appalachian catalytic stove with a 1.8 cu ft fire box. I can get pipe temps to about 600-700, but i can not get the stove top over 350.

How long should it take to get the stove top temps to 500 or so?

Ive done a good amount of research on starting and reloading a fire, but i must be missing something.

For instance, about an hour ago i had to reload the box and there were plenty of red hot coals left. I put in about 3 splits, opened the damper about 75%, cracked the door and within a few minutes the stove pipe temps were at 600. I closed the damper a little, shut the door, and i let it burn hot for another 15 or so min. and the stove top only got to about 325. Its been burning for about an hour and the stove top is at 275 and pipe temp is at 400 and thats with a small to medium flame still going.

Do i just need to let a large fire burn for an hour or so until it reaches 500-600?
What are some reloading tips if im doing it wrong?
Any help would be appreciated!

BTW right now im burning kiln dried wood, so i dont think wet wood is the problem.

 

[Grisu]

I think your problem is that you send the heat up the flue by leaving the air control open. You need to close that down more to keep the heat in the stove. The catalyst starts working above 500 F which you easily had when your flue temps were at 600 F.

First, I would open the air control completely before opening the door for a reload. Less risk of smoke coming into the room or "backpuffing". Rake coals forward, add splits, leave door open a little bit until wood has caught fire and close door then. Wait a few minutes until the wood has been charred, then start to close the air control maybe a quarter until the flames become "lazy". Wait again a few minutes until flames have become more vigorous again, close air another quarter. Continue like that until the air is almost or completely closed. Your flue temp should drop while the stove temp should go up. If the cat has a probe that should be above 600 F. The whole process takes some practice. Observe the temps as well as the look of the fire to decide how much air it needs.

Once you are more used to your stove start adding more splits during a reload until you feel confident enough to fill the firebox completely with wood. The less you need to tend the stove the better.

 

[weatherguy]

Do you have a lever to close a bypass once it gets to a certain temp? Just trying to get a feel for how your stove works, cat stoves are a little different, try what Grisu said and see how that goes.

 

[coltfever]

Welcome Chad and to start off with my wood stove is an Appalachian 52 Bay that I am on my second season with. First year sure was a learning curve but I enjoyed it. Grisu has give you a good place to start. You do need to get you a cat probe. As far at your temp reading placing on top of stove are off because of the air channel. I place mine above the door on the right hand side. I think your stove is hotter than you think. With a cat prob you can tell a lot more about how the stove is doing. Good luck and enjoy your stove.

 

[mellow]

What model Appalachian do you have?

 

[wood4free]

Like you I have a new Appalachian Cat stove I have been using for several weeks. Mine is the 52 Bay and I cannot imagine trying to operate the stove without a Cat probe. I usually do not close the damper to engage the catalysts until the probe is around 700 degrees. Otherwise, I have found the catalysts tend to stall out and the temperature does not rise. I haven't experienced stove top temperatures much above 300 and that is with the catalyst probe at 1700 degrees so I would not expect to see a stove top of 500.

 

[Chad984]

I have the 4N1 xl

 

[Chad984]

Do you have a lever to close a bypass once it gets to a certain temp? Just trying to get a feel for how your stove works, cat stoves are a little different, try what Grisu said and see how that goes.

The main damper on this stove is the bypass for the cat. it doesn't have its on lever lever to engage it. The manual isn't much help, all it says is "damper must be closed after the fire is burning well to engage the cat."

 

[Chad984]

Like you I have a new Appalachian Cat stove I have been using for several weeks. Mine is the 52 Bay and I cannot imagine trying to operate the stove without a Cat probe. I usually do not close the damper to engage the catalysts until the probe is around 700 degrees. Otherwise, I have found the catalysts tend to stall out and the temperature does not rise. I haven't experienced stove top temperatures much above 300 and that is with the catalyst probe at 1700 degrees so I would not expect to see a stove top of 500.

Yes, I guess I need to get a probe, but there is one weird thing. The manual says there is a small port located on the top of the stove 1" behind the right catalyst for a probe. Evidently there is supposed to be a screw that i can remove and then insert the thermocouple into the hole. Well, there is no hole or screw anywhere on the top of my stove!

I guess my temps seem to be pretty normal. I just read about all these guys getting there cat stoves up around 550 degrees on the stovetop, so i thought i should be getting the same numbers. I seem to be getting cat engagement, very little if any smoke comes out of the chimney and my glass stays pretty clean.

 

[Chad984]

Yes, I guess I need to get a probe, but there is one weird thing. The manual says there is a small port located on the top of the stove 1" behind the right catalyst for a probe. Evidently there is supposed to be a screw that i can remove and then insert the thermocouple into the hole. Well, there is no hole or screw anywhere on the top of my stove!

I guess my temps seem to be pretty normal. I just read about all these guys getting there cat stoves up around 550 degrees on the stovetop, so i thought i should be getting the same numbers. I seem to be getting cat engagement, very little if any smoke comes out of the chimney and my glass stays pretty clean.

Well, i found the screw!

 

[Grisu]

I haven't experienced stove top temperatures much above 300 and that is with the catalyst probe at 1700 degrees so I would not expect to see a stove top of 500.

How well is that stove heating then? A cat of 1700 F is not of much hep if the stove does not get warm.

 

[Dave A.]

Okay I have no experience with your stove other than reading M's review of it, but 300F max stove top just doesn't sound right to me. Since this is a cat stove, my understanding is that there should be two controls 1. An air level control. 2. A damper/or cat bypass control (which I'm suspecting is the control on top).

So this statement puzzles me a bit:

The main damper on this stove is the bypass for the cat. it doesn't have its on lever lever to engage it. The manual isn't much help, all it says is "damper must be closed after the fire is burning well to engage the cat."

And that is probably the control above the door.
Am assuming that's the control you are closing to engage the cat.

 

[Chad984]

Okay I have no experience with your stove other than reading M's review of it, but 300F max stove top just doesn't sound right to me. Since this is a cat stove, my understanding is that there should be two controls 1. An air level control. 2. A damper/or cat bypass control (which I'm suspecting is the control on top).

So this statement puzzles me a bit:



And that is probably the control above the door.
Am assuming that's the control you are closing to engage the cat.

Sorry if it was confusing. Yes, the damper above the door has to be closed to engage the cat. There are 3 air level controls, two on the door and a third one below the door, which is only used when starting the fire.

 

[Dave A.]

Good. Just wanted to make sure that you were aware that there was more than just one control for the stove (that's what puzzled me and suspect that maybe you might be using the wrong control). So that isn't the problem. Dunno what to suggest other than making sure you're using dry wood.

 

[mellow]

Can you do me a favor and take a picture of that top screw, curious to see how it looks as I might drill the top of my bay 52 in the same location.

 

[jharkin]

This is an interesting stove. I googled the manual: (broken link removed)

Whats interesting to me is they say "the damper can be left open closed or in any intermediate position to regulate heat". I have never heard of any cat stove maker suggesting that and I personally would not recommend it - the damper should be closed completely once the cat is lit and left closed till the next reload. If its partially open unburned smoke is going right up the flue, reducing efficiency and causing creosote buildup.


Anyway, looking at the manual here is what I see. You have a damper handle at the top which is the bypass, and at the bottom you have those two air controls you mentioned.


Looking further down I found this diagram of the damper. Looks like pulling the rod out is full bypass which lets smoke go straight up the flue, and pushing it in routes the smoke forward through the catalyst.



This is what i would recommend:

Cold stove:
1 Pull damper rod out all the way to fully open
2 Open both air controls ("draft") fully
3 build your kindling fire
4 Once it gets going well add a couple splits
5 Once the stove top thermo gets to 500F, push the damper in fully to completely close it, then leave it closed

• In a few minutes the cat should light off and the stove top temp will probably continue to climb

6 Now start slowly closing the primary air vents until you get thestove to your desired cruising temperature.

• As you close the air the fire in the main box will die down, but the catalyst temp will rise as its burning off the unburned smoke. Since your catalyst is mounted right under the top plate, you should see the top temp rise. It may actually go up as you close the air (counter-intuitive)

Try this routine with good dry wood and let us know if you get better results.

 

[mellow]

Stove top temp does not rise much with these stoves so you can't use that as an effective guide. The cats run horizontal, if they ran vertical then that statement would probably be true. My stove top usually hovers around 300-350 with the fan on low during peak burn.

A cat probe is a must have with this style of stove.

 

[jharkin]

Ahh yeah so kind of like a blaze King? Im used to my downdraft cat having no relationship between stovetop and cat but figured this thing would have something.

In that case, maybe use a flue thermometer to know when to engage, and the probe to monitor active temps.

 

[Grisu]

Stove top temp does not rise much with these stoves so you can't use that as an effective guide. The cats run horizontal, if they ran vertical then that statement would probably be true. My stove top usually hovers around 300-350 with the fan on low during peak burn.

I see you have an insert; where do you measure stove top temp?

If not on the top somewhere else the stove must have more than 300 F or what would be the point of having one then?

 

[mellow]

I have a thermocouple reading my stove top temp, the design does not lend itself to using stove top temp for closing the damper to activate the cats, I use it as a guide as to where in the burn process the stove is in, 300-350 the stove is putting out good heat, 250-300 the stove is putting out medium heat, below 200 the burn is on its last cycle, mostly coals by this point. A cat probe is critical for this as you must get them to about 800-900 before closing the damper to have a good light off.

 

[wood4free]

How well is that stove heating then? A cat of 1700 F is not of much hep if the stove does not get warm.

I also am using the 52 Bay (larger than the stove the OP has) as an insert. As Mellow explained, the stove top temperature does not get that hot. Using an IR gun I have measured the temperature all over the front of the stove. The hottest spot is directly under the air vents where I have seen close to 400 degrees. The stove emanates very little radiant heat as nearly all the heat is being produced by the catalysts and blown out into the room.

So how it heating? When the temp was down to 23 the other night and reached a high of 34 during the day I had a hard time getting the house temperature to 64. I have a learning curve ahead of me but based on this experience I have some serious concerns that the stove will not be able to heat my house any better than my previous 1.8 cf non-cat insert which did produce a fair amount of radiant heat. Pittsburgh winter temperatures can go down to the low teens at night and single digits are not out of the question so I am wondering if I made the right decision with this stove. I assumed that with an additional cubic foot of wood space it would definitely generate more heat but I am now beginning to question if any insert will sufficiently heat my house.

I can give three very definite positives over my previous insert:

1) I don't need to reload it during the night
2) I am getting hardly any dust in the house.
3) I can already see wood usage will be lower during the shoulder season.

However, I'll need to learn some way of getting more heat of out of the stove without damaging the catalysts or else I'll have to suck it up and pay the gas company to assist my heating needs.

 

[jharkin]

I also am using the 52 Bay (larger than the stove the OP has) as an insert. As Mellow explained, the stove top temperature does not get that hot. Using an IR gun I have measured the temperature all over the front of the stove. The hottest spot is directly under the air vents where I have seen close to 400 degrees. The stove emanates very little radiant heat as nearly all the heat is being produced by the catalysts and blown out into the room.

Oooooooh now I see - this all makes sense.. Its a double wall ed stove with a blower isnt it? So the actual top of the stove you see is just the outer jacket, and under that is the airspace the blower forces air through, and then the actual top of the firebox (which is probably VERY hot when that cat is cranking).


Now it makes perfect sense. Yeah you would never see the top get very hot because its not in direct metal to metal contact with the firebox.

Yep, best get a probe thermo, and maybe a flue thermo too.

 

[wood4free]

Oooooooh now I see - this all makes sense.. Its a double wall ed stove with a blower isnt it? So the actual top of the stove you see is just the outer jacket, and under that is the airspace the blower forces air through, and then the actual top of the firebox (which is probably VERY hot when that cat is cranking).

Now it makes perfect sense. Yeah you would never see the top get very hot because its not in direct metal to metal contact with the firebox.

That is correct and I just looked into the air vents with a flashlight and the air gap between the top of the stove (outer jacket) and the top of the firebox looks to be around
1¼" so no wonder the stove top never gets very hot.

 

[wood4free]

Oooooooh now I see - this all makes sense.. Its a double wall ed stove with a blower isnt it? So the actual top of the stove you see is just the outer jacket, and under that is the airspace the blower forces air through, and then the actual top of the firebox (which is probably VERY hot when that cat is cranking).

Now it makes perfect sense. Yeah you would never see the top get very hot because its not in direct metal to metal contact with the firebox.

That is correct and I just looked into the air vents with a flashlight and the air gap between the top of the stove (outer jacket) and the top of the firebox looks to be around
1¼" so no wonder the stove top never gets very hot.

 

[Chad984]

This is an interesting stove. I googled the manual: (broken link removed)

Whats interesting to me is they say "the damper can be left open closed or in any intermediate position to regulate heat". I have never heard of any cat stove maker suggesting that and I personally would not recommend it - the damper should be closed completely once the cat is lit and left closed till the next reload. If its partially open unburned smoke is going right up the flue, reducing efficiency and causing creosote buildup.


Anyway, looking at the manual here is what I see. You have a damper handle at the top which is the bypass, and at the bottom you have those two air controls you mentioned.
View attachment 117777

Looking further down I found this diagram of the damper. Looks like pulling the rod out is full bypass which lets smoke go straight up the flue, and pushing it in routes the smoke forward through the catalyst.
View attachment 117778


This is what i would recommend:

Cold stove:
1 Pull damper rod out all the way to fully open
2 Open both air controls ("draft") fully
3 build your kindling fire
4 Once it gets going well add a couple splits
5 Once the stove top thermo gets to 500F, push the damper in fully to completely close it, then leave it closed

• In a few minutes the cat should light off and the stove top temp will probably continue to climb

6 Now start slowly closing the primary air vents until you get thestove to your desired cruising temperature.

• As you close the air the fire in the main box will die down, but the catalyst temp will rise as its burning off the unburned smoke. Since your catalyst is mounted right under the top plate, you should see the top temp rise. It may actually go up as you close the air (counter-intuitive)

Try this routine with good dry wood and let us know if you get better results.

Thanks for the information. They may have changed the manual because mine says once the fire starts to burn well, to fully close the damper and control the fire with the air controls on the door. Wife let the fire burn out while i was at work, so i started from scratch today. Put a good amount of kindling on, damper wide open. Got it going real good, added some bigger pieces and let it continue to burn really hot. Flue temps got to about 800, so i shut the damper about half way. I let it burn like that for about 30 min and stove temps maxed out at about 425. Closed the damper fully, left air controls on the door fully open and stove temps went down to about 350 in a short period of time.