Can't get my Woodstock stove over 500... any ideas for a desperate man???

[thephotohound]

I am officially perplexed.

I have a Woodstock Keystone soapstone catalytic stove. My chimney exits through the rear, 90 degree elbow, 8" vertical single wall 6 feet, through ceiling, another 6 feet of double wall stainless to the roof peak. I am burning red oak, yellow birch, and red maple with an average moisture content of 23-25%.

(For those of you with Woodstock Stoves) when I engage the combustor, I damp down to 1 and get dancing orange flames with a bright red cat. I am by the book on these points and all others from what I can tell, but for the life of me, CAN NOT get a single degree above 500, and it's driving me crazy! Other Woodstock owners claim frequent temps over 600.

I just cleaned the cat last month (no damage, little fly ash, but vacuumed it anyway)... the chimney is clean... the thermometer is brand new... I always char my new load before engaging, and never engage below 250.

HELP!

 

[titan]

12 ft of chimney really isn't alot;I think the manual for my Regency called for 14 ft minimum vertical chimney height.I'm just curious as to your amount of draft,Photohound.

 

[WILDSOURDOUGH]

Two Thoughts...
I concur with previous writer- 12' of chimney is not much, could be a draft issue.
Why do you feel compelled to 'make' the stove run hotter ? It sounds like the Keystone is running very well, wood is seasoned, cat is glowing, your getting the secondarys- it's running at 'optimum'. Why try to push it ? It may run at more than 500 on other/colder days.

 

[BrotherBart]

Sounds like a really bad stove. I am six hours away. I will be up on Tuesday to get that thing out of your way. No charge.

 

[jpl1nh]

Hey John, if you want more heat, don't damper it down all the way to 1, try running it at 1 1/2 to 2. Setting 1 gives a nice optimum efficiency burn, but not maximum heat. Opening the air supply definately runs my Keystone hotter. If you can run your stove fine at setting 1, your draft is probably not the issue because that is their standard setting suggestion. I spoke with Woodstock and my settings tend to run about a quarter of a setting more open than typical because I have a 90 from the stove to the wall, then the 90 created by the thimble and my tile flue is 6x10 which is within acceptable standards for the stove but a bit larger than optimum though I have about 18' total chimney height. Also, my best stove top temps come when I reload on a really hot coal bed, or even slightly before that. When I reload that hot, it only takes a couple of minutes before I can re-engage the cat and have it light off. What size splits are you trying?

 

[Highbeam]

You go from a 7" flue to an 8" chimney that is only 12' long, half of which is single wall plus the one bend. How can it only be a 45 degree bend since the flue exit is horizontal? Does the chimney meet specs? Seems way too short for effective draft. Is there a way to add height to your chimney?

Your wood is wet. The accepted minimum is 20% and I have found 15% is a dramatic improvement. Is the wood hissing and bubbling? Try splitting some drier pieces of that wet wood up into smallish splits and burning with a loose and airy stackage to try and get some combustion going. You need to overcome the water.

If the above doesn't work then I would also be happy to take the stove.

 

[Harley]

I tend to agree - cat or non-cat... 500* on a soapstone stove seems to be cruising along pretty well. The chimney is clean, the cat is glowing (or whatever it is they do). Is it not heating the house like you thought it would, or should be?

And BB... I can get there faster than you....

 

[cstrail]

Hi,

I have the Woodstock fireview. I may do mine a bit different than the book, but it works great for us. Anyway, here is what I do to get my stovetop temps up from a cold start or reload.

1. Bypass the cat and open the air control to 4 until all the wood is going REAL good.
2. Leave bypass open and turn air to between 2 and 3
3. I have probe thermometer in my stovepipe about 2 feet above the top of stove so I watch this until it gets to around 600 or 700 degrees then engage the cat and turn down the air to between 1 and 2
4. I leave this between 1 and 2 until my stove top gets to the temp I want (I don't necessarily TRY to get above 500 or 600 unless house is really cold)
5. When I get to what I want I turn the air down until flames almost die out but smoke is only thing igniting. after a few minutes the draw from my chimney keeps the fires going all night long.

I know that you are supposed to run the stove bypassed until stove top gets to 250 or 300 to engage cat, but since the soapstone takes so long to heat up I go by the temp of the stove pipe exhaust. If it is 600 or 700 2 feet up the pipe I can be sure that the firebox is at least that temp so the cat will ignite.

Let me explain my reason for temp in #4 above. My stove top might only be 400 or 450 on top but my room is about 74 degrees and very comfortable. When I go up to 650 or 700 on top it gets way too hot in my living room. I do however run it that hot when house is really cold and needs warmed up or about an hour before we go to bed so the bedrooms will be a little warmer. I just find where my wife is comfortable and try to keep it there and if 400 stove top does it, thats where I run it.

Basically, instead of damping down to 1 after igniting cat, you can run it higher to get the hotter temps. Then turn it down a bit to maintain the high temp.

 

[jpl1nh]

Hi,

I have the Woodstock fireview. I may do mine a bit different than the book, but it works great for us. Anyway, here is what I do to get my stovetop temps up from a cold start or reload.

1. Bypass the cat and open the air control to 4 until all the wood is going REAL good.
2. Leave bypass open and turn air to between 2 and 3
3. I have probe thermometer in my stovepipe about 2 feet above the top of stove so I watch this until it gets to around 600 or 700 degrees then engage the cat and turn down the air to between 1 and 2
4. I leave this between 1 and 2 until my stove top gets to the temp I want (I don't necessarily TRY to get above 500 or 600 unless house is really cold)
5. When I get to what I want I turn the air down until flames almost die out but smoke is only thing igniting. after a few minutes the draw from my chimney keeps the fires going all night long.

I know that you are supposed to run the stove bypassed until stove top gets to 250 or 300 to engage cat, but since the soapstone takes so long to heat up I go by the temp of the stove pipe exhaust. If it is 600 or 700 2 feet up the pipe I can be sure that the firebox is at least that temp so the cat will ignite.

Let me explain my reason for temp in #4 above. My stove top might only be 400 or 450 on top but my room is about 74 degrees and very comfortable. When I go up to 650 or 700 on top it gets way too hot in my living room. I do however run it that hot when house is really cold and needs warmed up or about an hour before we go to bed so the bedrooms will be a little warmer. I just find where my wife is comfortable and try to keep it there and if 400 stove top does it, thats where I run it.

Basically, instead of damping down to 1 after igniting cat, you can run it higher to get the hotter temps. Then turn it down a bit to maintain the high temp.

I completely agree!

 

[jpl1nh]

Sounds like a really bad stove. I am six hours away. I will be up on Tuesday to get that thing out of your way. No charge.

Brother Bart, I have always admired your willingness to help out a fellow wood burner in need!

 

[Todd]

What are your stack temps compared to stove top? When I run 500-600 stove top, my stack is 250-300, with the air setting at 1/5 give or take. Maybe your losing too much heat up the stack? Does that stove have a gasket where the cat sits? What about the bypass plate gasket?

 

[Todd]

I know that you are supposed to run the stove bypassed until stove top gets to 250 or 300 to engage cat, but since the soapstone takes so long to heat up I go by the temp of the stove pipe exhaust. If it is 600 or 700 2 feet up the pipe I can be sure that the firebox is at least that temp so the cat will ignite.

Be carefull doing this. I was jumping the gun last year with a probe thermometer as my guide, and ended up thermal shocking the cat. I had cracks everywhere and it was starting to crumble. You still need to give the wood time to release moisture, even if you think it's dry, don't rush it. Lucky for me Woodstock was good enough to replace my cat for free.

 

[thephotohound]

Titan - I may have underestimated the size of the pipe... I have 9 ft ceilings in the living room, and it's more like 8-10 ft outside... I don't think it's the draft, because when I try the match test (in an empty, cold stove, it goes out immediately with the damper 1/2 open).

Sourdough - I probably won't opt to run it that hot ALL the time, but it's nice to know you have the option to warm the house up nin a hurry... especially with a soapstone (read "slow warm-up") stove.

BB - I really do appreciate the offer... I'll let you know.

CSTrail / JPL - I'm leaving the damper at 1 1/2 with the cat engaged right now... will let you know. BTW, I'm still getting orangy yellow flames from the logs... is that what I'm looking for? Also, how long does it take to get from 250 to 600?

Todd - my stack temps are usually around 100-150.

 

[jpl1nh]

Todd - my stack temps are usually around 100-150.

John, are these really your temps? Mine run about the same as Todd's which is what Woodstock indicated to me they typically would run at.

 

[webbie]

500 is a decent temp on a soapstone stove, especially when you turn it down (as you mentioned). These stoves are not quick and hot burners (in most cases) and more designed for long term burns. That said, at certain points in the fire you should be able to get over 500. Keep in mind that the different WS models may act differently, so a keystone may not get the same top temps as a fireview, etc.

Best bet is, after a bit more experience and testing, call them up - they are usually glad to talk to customers and will let you know if everything sounds normal.

 

[thephotohound]

JPL - Yes, 150 was my normal stack temp during catalytic burn (in the past), however, I experimented with a 1 1/2 damper setting instead of my usual 1, and I maintained a 500 stovetop temp for over an hour (then had to go to work) and my stack temp was around 250-300. It sounds like this is more in the range of what you and Todd are getting. When I get home, I'm going to leave the damper at 1 1/2 until I get to 500, then drop it down to 1 and see what happens.

Craig - I have called on Woodstock in the past, and they (Tim Butler especially) have been extremely helpful. Not to take anything away from them, but I find that the feedback I get from everyday Woodstock users (on this forum) is more helpful. I'd be lost without Hearth.com!

 

[cstrail]

I know that you are supposed to run the stove bypassed until stove top gets to 250 or 300 to engage cat, but since the soapstone takes so long to heat up I go by the temp of the stove pipe exhaust. If it is 600 or 700 2 feet up the pipe I can be sure that the firebox is at least that temp so the cat will ignite.

Be carefull doing this. I was jumping the gun last year with a probe thermometer as my guide, and ended up thermal shocking the cat. I had cracks everywhere and it was starting to crumble. You still need to give the wood time to release moisture, even if you think it's dry, don't rush it. Lucky for me Woodstock was good enough to replace my cat for free.

Yes, I know about that part. If i have wet wood I don't do it quite that way, I will leave it bypassed for sometimes up to 45 minutes with the air around 2 or so. If I have really dry wood it is not a problem though.

 

[Todd]

JPL - Yes, 150 was my normal stack temp during catalytic burn (in the past), however, I experimented with a 1 1/2 damper setting instead of my usual 1, and I maintained a 500 stovetop temp for over an hour (then had to go to work) and my stack temp was around 250-300. It sounds like this is more in the range of what you and Todd are getting. When I get home, I'm going to leave the damper at 1 1/2 until I get to 500, then drop it down to 1 and see what happens.

Craig - I have called on Woodstock in the past, and they (Tim Butler especially) have been extremely helpful. Not to take anything away from them, but I find that the feedback I get from everyday Woodstock users (on this forum) is more helpful. I'd be lost without Hearth.com!

I think that 150 temp is too low. Keep an eye on it and try to maintain 250-300 stack temp with a little more air, and I bet the stove top will go up.

 

[swestall]

So its running pretty much as it should, you can turn it up for more heat; which leaves the question-are you cold? If you don't have a dirty stack, you are burning clean and the CAT is doing its job. I think you don't have a problem and you do have a nice setup. Enjoy: experiment with the air in various stages of open/closed. It pays to write the settings and results down as they are hard to recall over time. You can use that data as the season burns on.

 

[thephotohound]

Swest - That's exactly where I am... this weekend I will experiment with a multitude of settings... Yes, I am cold, but only on days when the wind kicks up. Part of our problem is a 30 yr old wood slider that we're in the process of replacing. I can't believe how much cold air infiltrates the house through this one damn slider. I've tries re-weatherstripping multiple times with multiple types, and the wood is just too weathered (cracked, warped, etc). I'm replacing it with a vinyl clad aluminum model with Low E and Argon. Should make a big difference.

Thank you all for your insight. I will report my findings by the end of the weekend.

 

[thephotohound]

UPDATE: Over 500 for the first time ever (530 and climbing)! Cat is brighter than I've ever seen it. Stack temp is 275.

 

[Todd]

Great news! Now your cookin!

I know what you mean when the wind blows. It could be -20 with no wind and my house temp is 74. If it's 20 degrees with a strong wind, I have a hard time keeping it over 70. I need new windows!

 

[begreen]

Way to go PhotoHound. Here's what I've gleaned from Woodstock's manual:

READING OPERATION
over 250.....................OK to engage the combustor
400-600 .....................Normal operating temperature
600-700......................High burn range
over 700.....................DO NOT burn in this range

 

[thephotohound]

Got the stove to 600! What a difference in heat! The daytime high today was 25 (currently 16, will drop to 11 tonight) with a stiff 20 mph wind, and I kept the house above 70 all day. That's a huge deal for me... usually I'd either be around 64-65 or have to turn the oil heat on to supplement. This is a huge milestone. Thank you to everyone who helped!

 

[swestall]

Hey! My inlaws had that same problem with their slider, they went to Lowe's and got a Pella door, what a difference. Before you couldn't sit anywhere near it, now you can sit next to it and no problem. They have no stove, just gas heat: I might add that the cost for heat went down so it would follow that your delight with the stove (now that you are figuring it out) will only increast. The inlaws had the changout done is three days after purchase and it only took a few hours. Good Luck, for here comes winter big time!