Any 6 inch vented stove should have a 6 inch insulated liner in your old chimney. Your manual for the 30.2 recommends the 6 inch insulated liner for a reason. You may be able to get away with what you have as a second home, but not for primary heat in a primary home. For resale value, and giving the new stove what it needs to work correctly, consider making the chimney right first.
Can't make up mine what stove to purchase
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Coaly,
Well yes it is a second home. Why the 6"insulated liner as it burns hotter with less build up in the chimney?
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For concerns about creosote buildup, it's not just the Ashfords, but all stoves that run with lower flue temps during the outgassing phase of the burn. This can be more of an issue with cat stoves that smolder the wood and burn the gases in the catalyst. A 300º flue temp in the stovepipe can quickly drop to below the condensation point in a cold exterior chimney.
Well I assume that if I clean the chimney once a year that should help. I only burn about 2-3 cords of wood a year.
It really depends on the exit temp of the flue gases, outdoor temps, and the dryness of the wood. Twice a year may be necessary with a colder chimney.
BKVP
Minister of Fire
I would like to share the VERY recent experience of a sweep in Fairbanks. He has an Ashford in his home, 31' of chimney, 20' black double wall stove pipe (indoors of course, not exterior) and 11' of class A chimney. He works as an installer for the local retailer and sweeps chimneys. He know a bit about proper wood stove maintenance and operation. He swept his chimney recently and from the full system he collected "two small handfuls".
The next day he swept the chimney of of a store customer. 27' of chimney, 20' of double wall black pipe and 7' of class A. He got 4.5 gallons from the full system. "You could not have dropped a golf ball down that thing".
In the case of the employee/installer/sweep, he works 60 hours a weeks and did not have time to go cut, split and stack wood for last winter. For last winter (7-8 months of burning in Fairbanks), he purchased all his wood from the Kiln that is now providing dry wood.
In the case of the consumer, the guy with the 4.5 gallons of creosote in nearly the identical chimney configuration, that guy was cutting down trees in June and July of 2021, splitting and stacking and then burning them in winter of 2021-2022.
While it is very true that exterior chimneys benefit tremendously from the use of an insulated liner, it's also critically import to have really dry fuel.
The reason one of the guys asked for you to post your installation parameters is provide guidance to maximize your satisfaction with an Ashford. First, how much vertical rise will you have BEFORE the horizontal transition to enter the clay liner masonry chimney? Additionally, how long will the horizontal section of pipe before the thimble? How tall is the chimney from the thimble entry point to the top of the chimney?
These are the questions and correspondingly answers that can optimize performance and satisfaction. We have sold thousands and thousands of Ashford's (both 20's and 30's). A very, very small fraction has smoke smell issues and there is already plenty posted here about measure that were taken to rectify 99% of those handful of cases.
From those actual, real world experiences, I (as in we) would highly recommend the insulated liner be part of your consideration in the purchase of the stove. Doing so at this time may also allow you to use the 25D Tax Credit of 26%. If you encounter any performance issues and the tax credit has expired, you may lose that benefit.
These guys on this site know a great deal and are doing what they can to help.
BKVP
The next day he swept the chimney of of a store customer. 27' of chimney, 20' of double wall black pipe and 7' of class A. He got 4.5 gallons from the full system. "You could not have dropped a golf ball down that thing".
In the case of the employee/installer/sweep, he works 60 hours a weeks and did not have time to go cut, split and stack wood for last winter. For last winter (7-8 months of burning in Fairbanks), he purchased all his wood from the Kiln that is now providing dry wood.
In the case of the consumer, the guy with the 4.5 gallons of creosote in nearly the identical chimney configuration, that guy was cutting down trees in June and July of 2021, splitting and stacking and then burning them in winter of 2021-2022.
While it is very true that exterior chimneys benefit tremendously from the use of an insulated liner, it's also critically import to have really dry fuel.
The reason one of the guys asked for you to post your installation parameters is provide guidance to maximize your satisfaction with an Ashford. First, how much vertical rise will you have BEFORE the horizontal transition to enter the clay liner masonry chimney? Additionally, how long will the horizontal section of pipe before the thimble? How tall is the chimney from the thimble entry point to the top of the chimney?
These are the questions and correspondingly answers that can optimize performance and satisfaction. We have sold thousands and thousands of Ashford's (both 20's and 30's). A very, very small fraction has smoke smell issues and there is already plenty posted here about measure that were taken to rectify 99% of those handful of cases.
From those actual, real world experiences, I (as in we) would highly recommend the insulated liner be part of your consideration in the purchase of the stove. Doing so at this time may also allow you to use the 25D Tax Credit of 26%. If you encounter any performance issues and the tax credit has expired, you may lose that benefit.
These guys on this site know a great deal and are doing what they can to help.
BKVP
Again this is a second home and I am not there now but a picture is worth a thousand words.
I do not know the horizontal pipe The Ashford will sit 2" from the front edge of the flag stone which is 36' x 36" and that back edge of the stone is 3" from the back wall.
Hope this helps.
Those were the issues I was speaking of and I am pretty sure there have been a few others in 21. In general tho I was using as a bridge to also talk about his chimney setup since he didnt really say. We all know some stoves are easy breathers and will overfire with tall chimneys, and some require a taller chimney for better draw. As well as other issues. It was not a dig at BK's specific however the ashfords that had issues on this forum were pretty well documented and some were never resolved. Some gave up cause they didnt listen to advice as well tho.
Again not a dig as BK...... I wouldnt trade my stove for any other one even if they offered a brand new one. For my small space and pretty tall chimney its almost set and forget and keeps the space at the same temp no matter what the outside temp is. I only use 1 cord per winter because I only burn nights and weekends. But putting in 3-4 splits and getting usable heat for 7-8 hours is amazing to me. And I clean 1 a year and get maybe 1/2 a cup from my chimney. Good wood is a must for proper operation(of any stove). My first year was much harder and not nearly as much fun to use the stove.
The chimney is the engine that makes any stove work. The hot rising exhaust gases moving up the chimney flue causes a low pressure area inside the chimney, pipe and stove. This is measured as draft. This lower pressure area allows the higher atmospheric air pressure to PUSH into the stove intakes. This is what makes it work by adding oxygen into the intake openings.
Every stove has a required draft needed at the flue collar. The greater the temperature differential between inside and outside of chimney, the lower the pressure inside, so the greater the draft. Velocity has a lot to do with the pressure, and the smaller diameter causes the gases to rise faster, again, lowering the pressure.
The larger flue you have is about twice the diameter of the 6 inch stove outlet. When hot exhaust gases expand into the larger area they cool drastically as they expand. They can drop almost by half their temperature. Remember, the draft required to get the proper air mix into the stove is due to the temperature differential, which by allowing the flue gases to cool is detrimental to draft.
The other problem allowing the flue gases to cool in the chimney is the water vapor created by combustion condenses on the cooler flue walls. This is where the smaller diameter and insulation around the liner keeps the flue walls hotter. The critical temperature is 250*f when water vapor from combustion condenses on flue walls. This allows smoke particles when present to stick. The mixture of smoke particles and water vapor is pyrolegenious acid. Mainly wood alcohol and acetic acid. In liquid form, this is harmless. When allowed to bake on flue walls, this fluid forms creosote.
So the creosote issue is actually due to hydrogen in the fuel turning into water vapor when burned. The molecular ratio of hydrogen to water is 9. The hydrogen turns to 9 times the amount of water. There is 6% hydrogen in oven dry wood. So the hydrogen in every pound of oven dry wood creates .54 pounds of water when burned. The chimney needs to stay hot enough to the top, to expel this water as steam before it condenses inside the flue. An older stove that loses more heat up the chimney can do this easier. Newer, more efficient stoves lose less heat up, so the smaller 6 inch exhaust can’t heat the much larger area of the inside of your chimney, which is twice the size it should be. (6 inch round being 28.26 sq. inches vs 8x8 =64 sq. inches)
Add the water in wood with a 25% moisture content and you’re trying to get another quarter pound of water out the chimney, while the higher water vapor caries more BTU up the stack along with it. You can see how detrimental higher moisture content in the wood becomes.
The critical temperature to maintain above 250*f is necessary while smoke is present in all older stoves with much more particulate. The more smoke particles burned in the stove, the less critical this temperature becomes for creosote formation, but you still need the correct internal temps to create the correct draft. So you can see how much more older stoves benefit by keeping the flue gas hotter by insulating flues.
This being a second home just means less fuel burned creating less creosote and the chance of burning harder to heat the home when you get there, causing the flue temps to be higher with less formation, and creating the stronger draft needed to make the stove work better.
Since the chimney is the engine that makes the stove go, think of buying a stove like buying the body of a new car. You’re still using the old less efficient engine. The larger the flue diameter the more capacity the chimney has to move more BTU. You won’t have that excess wasted heat anymore. Not giving the chimney the fuel it needs to generate the needed draft. So your old chimney is like a big engine in a school bus. It is capable of more power, but needs more fuel to get the power out of it. Heat is the fuel that makes the chimney engine go. You need to match the engine to the car just like you need to match the chimney to the stove.
BKVP
Minister of Fire
I for one appreciate even heat output, even when burning on high. Of course our winters are mild compared to Fairbanks, but colder than the west side.
Yes, even heat output is something we really appreciate running the Alderlea T6, even in our milder climate.
So with pictures attached can anyone see any issues with me running a BK Ashford stove in my house?
It's going to be a cold oversized chimney. It may work ok but will never work as well as it should
Ashful
Minister of Fire
I'll default to bholler. He likely works on as many different stoves per day as I use all year. (two)
Finally after 6 months ordered my Ashford 30 got delivered and installed. WAY BACK ORDERED.I could not be happier with its performance.Great looking stove and seems work great on my first weekend using it. Thanks again for the help from the forum.
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