cheap charlie/pelpro modification...

[mjbrown]

as some of you know, i originally started out with a cheap charlie/ pelpro stove. i was having alot of trouble getting any amount of heat from this stove, and was going thru 3 bags of pellets a day and the furnace was still coming on.


i still own the stove and just had a brain cramp.this stove has heat exchanger tubes, while the harman P38 i now burn has an accordian type exchanger.

this is my question, and please, i would like any and all input on this,good, bad, or indifferent...

would this stove possibly throw more heat if i built an accordian exchanger and installed below the tubes, welded in of course,or would this screw up the mechanics of the stove? i am not worried about the warranty as it has long since expired. also, i will NOT install this in my home until it has been run and tried and proven before hand....my family and home are of more value than a stove i bought for $600.

i am currently out of work, do to the wonderful economy, and trying to find something to do with my time other than housework.

please comment and give me all you got,i wouldnt ask, if i didnt want to know.

thanx,

mike

 

[buildingmaint]

If you were going through that many pellets , where was the heat going ? How hot was the exhaust air ?
That is a lot of BTU'S to not be producing any heat . If a pound of pellets produce 7000 BTU'S then 120 lbs
would produce 840'000 Btu'in a day or 35'000 an hour.

 

[mjbrown]

i asked this same question of the dealer where the stove was bought new, and he told me i was burning junk pellets(cubex) and that his were the best ones on the market(energex). i didnt understand his reasoning i said as no mater what they were i should not be birning 3 bags a day and hearing the furnace kick on.

this guy did absolutely NOTHING to try and figure out what was going on with the stove, he just kept blaming the pellets. a worker at the same store heard the whole conversation, and told the guy he needed to listen, there was something wrong with the stove, i shouldnt be using that much pellets and not be getting any heat.the guy told hi to get back to work and mind his business.

he then looked at me and said"guess you'll know not to buy someone elses junk again, eh?"

i told him i thought he was an a**hole and i would never do business there again!

i went home and called tech support in canada(which i should have done step one) and within 20 min, found that the hi and lo limit switches were bad. i replaced both of those but still not much better. if you held a piece of paper in front of the stovewhile it was going, the air would move the paper from 6" distance, move back a foot and no movement of paper.so i think there may also be a blower issue but i got tired of feeding it and not getting heat , so i bought another stove. now i am in the mood to try and get this thing doing something.

mike

 

[MCPO]

i asked this same question of the dealer where the stove was bought new, and he told me i was burning junk pellets(cubex) and that his were the best ones on the market(energex). i didnt understand his reasoning i said as no mater what they were i should not be birning 3 bags a day and hearing the furnace kick on.

this guy did absolutely NOTHING to try and figure out what was going on with the stove, he just kept blaming the pellets. a worker at the same store heard the whole conversation, and told the guy he needed to listen, there was something wrong with the stove, i shouldnt be using that much pellets and not be getting any heat.the guy told hi to get back to work and mind his business.

he then looked at me and said"guess you'll know not to buy someone elses junk again, eh?"

i told him i thought he was an a**hole and i would never do business there again!

i went home and called tech support in canada(which i should have done step one) and within 20 min, found that the hi and lo limit switches were bad. i replaced both of those but still not much better. if you held a piece of paper in front of the stovewhile it was going, the air would move the paper from 6" distance, move back a foot and no movement of paper.so i think there may also be a blower issue but i got tired of feeding it and not getting heat , so i bought another stove. now i am in the mood to try and get this thing doing something.

mike

It sounds like your distribution fan isn`t blowing.
I know it sounds crazy but my neighbor was burning his stove for a month before I noticed his fan wasn`t working. What a difference in the amount of pellets he was using.

 

[MCPO]

as some of you know, i originally started out with a cheap charlie/ pelpro stove. i was having alot of trouble getting any amount of heat from this stove, and was going thru 3 bags of pellets a day and the furnace was still coming on.


i still own the stove and just had a brain cramp.this stove has heat exchanger tubes, while the harman P38 i now burn has an accordian type exchanger.

this is my question, and please, i would like any and all input on this,good, bad, or indifferent...

would this stove possibly throw more heat if i built an accordian exchanger and installed below the tubes, welded in of course,or
thanx,

mike

Absolutely not! You`d have a double heat exchanger in place . The goal is to remove the heat off the heat exchanger (tubes or accordian style) quickly for efficiency. Adding another would really diminish efficiency.

 

[mjbrown]

as some of you know, i originally started out with a cheap charlie/ pelpro stove. i was having alot of trouble getting any amount of heat from this stove, and was going thru 3 bags of pellets a day and the furnace was still coming on.


i still own the stove and just had a brain cramp.this stove has heat exchanger tubes, while the harman P38 i now burn has an accordian type exchanger.

this is my question, and please, i would like any and all input on this,good, bad, or indifferent...

would this stove possibly throw more heat if i built an accordian exchanger and installed below the tubes, welded in of course,or
thanx,

mike

Absolutely not! You`d have a double heat exchanger in place . The goal is to remove the heat off the heat exchanger (tubes or accordian style) quickly for efficiency. Adding another would really diminish efficiency.

gio,
what if i cut the charlie tubes out , and set it up ;ike the harman? thank you for your input btw, this is the feed back i am looking for.

keep in mind, i have done nothing yet....loking for feedback at this time, so go ahead and give me your thought. no feelings to worry about here. lol


mike

 

[mjbrown]

also want to add on the distribution blower....when i was friggin with this thing, i turned the blower to hi and adjusted the trim pot for it. i was getting blower air, it just didnt seem like it was blowong like it should.

mike

my spelling is really BAD tonite

 

[sinnian]

Sorry, but I have to ask.................. have you cleaned the tubes thoroughly?

 

[mjbrown]

Sorry, but I have to ask.................. have you cleaned the tubes thoroughly?

yep, when i first bought the stove from a co-worker, i removed all the sheet metal and the door. i vacuumed out what was there, then took an airhose to the tubes, then vac'd again.

after this was done i removed the blowers one at a time, and cleaned the squirrel cages and re-installed, then i cleaned out the exhaust tube, and blew down the entire backside of the stove.

maybe the distribution blower is bad, that is one of the things i will check.any other ideas? i am willing to exhaust ALL possibilities.

mike

 

[mjbrown]

i am curious about this heat exchanger thing as the originals look as though they are small and not getting enough heat transfer to do the job...this is why i ask about an accordian style like harman. i am no engineer, or scientist...but it seems to me that different companies do things a certain way for a reason , and it seems that harman went with a plate for what.....more surface area?

it seem as though ALOT of heat must be getting by the tubes, but the again englander uses tubes and i have personally felt the wonderful heat from those...i dont know, thats why i ask input from you folks.


mike

 

[MCPO]

i am curious about this heat exchanger thing as the originals look as though they are small and not getting enough heat transfer to do the job...this is why i ask about an accordian style like harman. i am no engineer, or scientist...but it seems to me that different companies do things a certain way for a reason , and it seems that harman went with a plate for what.....more surface area?

it seem as though ALOT of heat must be getting by the tubes, but the again englander uses tubes and i have personally felt the wonderful heat from those...i dont know, thats why i ask input from you folks.


mike

Look Mike,
With all due respect , Pel Pro pellet stoves might not be the cadillacs but I`m certain they are designed/ engineered to be within industry standards and definitely not needing the modification you propose.
You need someone more knowledgeable than yourself to access the problem and come up with more reasonable solutions than redesigning the heat exchanger.

 

[mjbrown]

gio, thank you...this is what i am looking for. i take nothing in offense, or feel as though anyone is being anything other than respectful. i am a welder by trade , and always looking for a way to improve on something, as do engineers, electricians carpenters and the rest of the trades. i would in no way try to alter something or make it try to do something it wasnt designed for i.e. burn coal....i understand trial and error, nothing ventured, nothing gained , but i WILL NOT put my family at risk or my home to do it...also, i would not tryy something without asking others opinions...so again, i thank you for your input and keep it coming, i am a big boy

mike

 

[mcmanus]

the different exchanger designs are going to go hand in hand with different air flow designs.. I suspect the exchanger isn't the root of your problem. I've never seen your stove but I doubt a stove that chewed through 120lbs of pellets without putting any heat out the circ fan would get past the designers .. therefore I'd be looking for some facet of broken execution rather than design.. i.e. what's broken? If there is some way you can manually push a lot of air across the exchangers you might be able to feel whether that air flow is the problem or not. If you're totally out of ideas, consider the cleaning thing again. It wouldn't be the first time on this forum that someone found a panel/passageway/cubby full of ash they never knew existed that they had cleaned around for a long time.

 

[mjbrown]

pat, gio, sinnian, buidingmaint...
i thank you all. i will be putting this stove back on the bech soon, and going over all the suggestions you have made( before i do ANY cutting or modifying).i will exhaust all possibilities before going that route...even if i have to cut the top off this thing to see something hidden from plain sight.first stop is going to be the room air blower.who knows , maybe it is inferior, maybe it needs replacement.

thank you again, and if you can come up with anything else, hit me up, knock me over.maybe between all of us we can straighten this stove out.the wife and i are going to convert a one car garage to a game room this summer, and would like to use this stove as heat out there. for the record, there will be no flammible liquids stored there...pool table and dart boards,and maybe a few bottles of hi test refreshments.

 

[woodsman23]

I have to think it is the room blower that is bad. I'd remove it and check it for proper operation. It is impossible not to get heat from a pellet stove due to a design issue. I would pull out the blower(s) and recheck them for proper operation, it has to be the problem.

 

[jsvo]

if this stove ate 3 bags a day and put out no heat you definitly got a problem. we had one of these at my work that holds 320 lbs of pellets.the first day the limiter switch quit,then you couldnt stop the pellets from dancing out of the pot even with air shut off.tech line was very good about working with me on phone,and they determined there was a crack in firebox setup from factory.we were given a new stove through right away.this stove has now run since november and used over two tons.we leave it on 24-7 and it heats our showroom with no problem.area is 25x60 running on setting of 2-3.if you leave this on 4 it will drive you out of the place. this stove only gets cleaned once a week and runs energex and pennington pellets. i would spend more time on phone with tech line before trying to rebuild it. this stove is an animal.

 

[mjbrown]

if this stove ate 3 bags a day and put out no heat you definitly got a problem. we had one of these at my work that holds 320 lbs of pellets.the first day the limiter switch quit,then you couldnt stop the pellets from dancing out of the pot even with air shut off.tech line was very good about working with me on phone,and they determined there was a crack in firebox setup from factory.we were given a new stove through right away.this stove has now run since november and used over two tons.we leave it on 24-7 and it heats our showroom with no problem.area is 25x60 running on setting of 2-3.if you leave this on 4 it will drive you out of the place. this stove only gets cleaned once a week and runs energex and pennington pellets. i would spend more time on phone with tech line before trying to rebuild it. this stove is an animal.

jsvo, i think you just hit on something...after reading your post, it jogged my memory...i did have ALOT of trouble with the pellets coming out of the burn pot. i will check the hopper and fire box for cracks. as stated earlier by me, i am a welder by trade and if need be, i can tear the ol' girl down and repair it if there is in fact a crack.

both hi and lo limit switches are new,so next i will check the room air blower. i may have misstated earlier...i did get some heat but nowhere near what i should have gotten burning 3 bags a day.so i got frusterated and bought another stove.i know the charlie was/is rated for more sq. footage and higher btu than my harmanP38,and it blew my mind that i couldnt get the heat i should have gotten...i should have been sitting in my skivvies at 3 bags a day and an 1100 sq ft home with open design.

thanx for your input,

mike