Yeah, makes sense. Let me trace the wire ...
What's there now is a "gaspack" - natural gas furnace with AC unit, and like I said min/max ampacity is 20/25A. But I think seller replaced it recently, so maybe heatstrips before that.
checking out a house's electrical system
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Nope, the meter feeds busbars that all five of those 2-pole breakers feed off of.
Pretty sure PVC is allowed here, but probably supposed to be Schedule 80.
I need to check again, see if wire from main to sub-panel is 4-wire. I have a feeling it's not. Don't thinkk there are separate ground and neutral busbars in that subpanel.
As a one time NEC Code instructor, and contributor to the Code, I can assure you that there is nothing in your photos or description (save for misinterpretations) that is of concern. This is not a new installation - I'm guessing it was originally installed in the early 1970's. Old is not necessarily bad, nor is old illegal. If old was illegal or bad, my age would place me in deep trouble.
If it aint broke, don't fix it.
Don't be poking around, tugging on wires, or otherwise placing yourself or the seasoned equipment in jeopardy.
Beware if hiring a "licensed electrician". They will often have other fish to fry (at the home owner's expense). These days about all it takes to become licensed is the application fee and a signature of another fellow that has done similar due diligence.
If it aint broke, don't fix it.
Don't be poking around, tugging on wires, or otherwise placing yourself or the seasoned equipment in jeopardy.
Beware if hiring a "licensed electrician". They will often have other fish to fry (at the home owner's expense). These days about all it takes to become licensed is the application fee and a signature of another fellow that has done similar due diligence.
Well, I think that bad cover on the combined meter & main panel box is an issue. But it could probably be fixed without replacing the box.
What about not having separate neutral and ground in the sub-panel that has all the 120v circuits ? I thought that was a big no-no.
Understood. Probably don't want to ask a "licensed electrician" to fix the cover on that outdoor box. Just figure out how to do it myself.
and what about the 5 years of work time and the 5 years of night school requirement to get your journeyman license?
i used to take my 21 hour code update with a guy who would be turning in his grave if he heard this about licensed electrician ( Joe Ross )
Well, Rusty, it seems you have met all the current requirements to be a licensed electrical contractor.
Go for it.
I actually just called a "licensed electrical contractor", texted her the picture of the coverless box, and she said "it'd be silly to replace the box, I'm sure we can figure out how to get the cover back on securely". So some of the cynicism about "make work" was misplaced, although given they won't come till a month from now, it's not like they need extra work. She thought the reason the top of the cover wouldn't go onto the meter properly is that the cover is actually supposed to kinda fit behind the meter; though come to think of it, not sure that makes sense, because it means anyone could just grab the meter and pull it off.
I'm gonna punt on the issue of whether the subpanel has separate ground and neutral. If it ain't broke ...
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just took a second and third look at that setup. that little cover goes over the breakers and there should be a cover for the whole thing and that cover will fit around the meter with a seal from the power company. with that cover on the meter can't be pulled out. if the power company finds that seal cut they will put on a lock so that they have to come out and unlock it if that stuff meaning the circuit breakers are open to the weather than all those breakers are junk per national electrical code. if there is no cover to be found then the meter/breaker combo box has to be replaced. if the town electrical inspector finds out there is no cover he could have the power company shut down that service until it is rectified. in short replace it. the wires that feed the meter look like 200 amp
Yes, that little cover goes over the breakers and fits on just fine - I just had it removed to be looking at the breaker wiring when the photo was taken.
There is a two-part cover that goes over the whole thing, as you said; it exists, but not shown in my photos, and it is the one that is messed up and won't fit back on properly. But it is (and has been) on there, so I don't feel the breakers have really been exposed. Like I said, they think the upper part is supposed to go on behind the meter, and that's why it won't fit on properly.
Yeah, 200amp I think, the hot leads are 2/0 guage; that's what most of the houses around here are.
can you show me some pictures of the cover? most covers go over the meter and have a screw/with a hole for a seal by the power company. if the cover has a lip that sticks out towards you then the cover goes on first then the meter and a aluminum ring that goes around the lip and the meter and with a seal locks the meter in place.
Don't have pic and access right now. But yeah, I believe it has a lip that sticks outwards; but I think that ring is missing. Looked at Milbank website and they appear to still manufacture these boxes. I believe it's one of these: https://milbankworks.com/products/metering/u5168
So, today I checked out another house - the one my other stepson is buying. And what do you know, it has a Federal Pacific panel. Mounted outside directly against a brick facade. Looked real clean though (better than the OP one). What are the known issues ?
A little research suggests that it's breakers, that fail to trip properly, that is the issue - not the panel itself. So I guess the issue is whether it's possible to source good breakers to replace these.
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What to do if You Have a Federal Pacific Electric Panel in Your Home
If you suspect that you may have a Zinsco Panel, FPE Electrical Panel or any outdated circuit breaker panel in your home you should contact a local...
www.docelectricalservices.com
EbS-P
Minister of Fire
EbS-P
Minister of Fire
Yep. I have generally found him to be informative and we’ll versed in his trade. In case you missed the link to his other video.
One of the houses I grew up in was in a large development that had FP panels in about half the development. No fires but several near misses. It was option early on when folks specified their homes. We had the old fashioned fuse panels with the one way bushings to limit the fuse size. A PITA to upgrade a circuit.
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So it looks like maybe one can imply purchase replacement breakers - that fit the panels but are not faulty - and fix the problem that way.
EbS-P
Minister of Fire
in mass (and we work from the national electrical code book) the only time someone has to install a arc fault breaker in place of a older breaker is if the circuit was added on to. meaning a existing circuit that has been there for say kitchen lighting is a regular circuit breaker, as is that is fine. you don't have to change breakers because you changed out the panel, but if you add another light onto the existing lights the circuit breaker has to be upgraded to a arc fault type circuit breaker. or anything new has to be arc fault. the new arc fault circuit breakers are better than the first generation of them but sometimes they trip for no apparent reason, that's why most of us electricians hate using them. and now lets get to the cost. if you have 10 regular circuit breakers to replace that totals roughly 60 dollars. if they are arc fault type the total is 490 dollars
Yes, here too, where I'm thinking of upgrading to 225amp and replacing the panel, the AHJ says I needn't go to AFCI breakers.
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