Chimney cap idea

[kevinmoelk]

I was thinking about chimney fires and was wondering if anyone has developed a self-extinguishing chimney cap. You could have a cap that would have some kind of fusible link feature that when a chimney fire occured, the link would melt, the cap would fall, and result in sealing off the chimney. I think it's a good idea. I'd buy one. What does everyone think? Will this dog hunt?

-Kevin

 

[Robbie]

Good idea, hurry to the USPTO though.

http://www.uspto.gov/


Robbie

 

[BrotherBart]

Yep just what I want. A two thousand degee blast with no other place to go than back through the stove into my house.

No thanks. I'll pass on that one. I'd be just as happy letting it go up the pipe and outside.

BB - Who has done thirty years of small chimney fires and loved the fact that they went straight up and out.

 

[Robbie]

This could be done by a cap full of extinguishing powder being released at the exact time the flame had reached the top of pipe.

Kind of like a resevoir of powder, released by high temps............hmmmmm.

Capping I would think might be tricky.


Robbie

 

[Robbie]

Double post, sorry.
Robbie

 

[kevinmoelk]

Robbie, I checked out the link you sent and there are already patents for the self extinguishing chimney... guess someone beat me to it. That's okay, it would take so much money to engineer and develop something like that. I'm just wondering if a consumer could buy one.

BB, I hear your concern, but there's got to be a way. Who knows if some of the registered patent ideas could come to life... again, alot involved. You wouldn't want something that could save your home from burning down? I'm a little shocked and confused.

-Kevin

 

[PaulD]

The father of a woman that I work with patented a design for a cap that has a system for keeping your flu brush inside the chimney. It works on cables and parks at the bottom of the flu. Just open the clean out, run the brush up and down a few times and you're done. I guess they haven't found anyone willing to mass produce it yet.

 

[Robbie]

Of all the things that irritate me, it's good ideas (like the above) that no one seems to take advantage of, or does not for other reasons unknown to me.

There are reasons they don't, I'm just not smart enough to figure them out.

Of course people like Craig and lots of others here I'm sure, know and understand the complex workings of ideas and patents.

Example: we can walk on the moon, but we can't figure a way to extinguish flu fires.......... %-P


My opinion on this is it's been hashed over and over in the last many years. The idea seems sound, but the cost or liabilities involved are probably one of the things that could have halted any further progress.

Another example below: This is going to sound weird, but it really happened to me.

And I would not mention this on the open internet exept for the hope of someone jumping on this idea.........I would like nothing better than for them to expand on these thoughts.

Many years ago I got an idea for a gun safe, made several working prototypes, tested them on my nephews and kids (NO GUNS involved !), then went to a patent attorney.

He researched the idea and returned his findings to me, there was NOTHING like it he could find with his first search. I studied the previous art, patents etc. and decided that the ideas that were already patented were not similar to my idea.

The problem was I had no money, no way to pay the attorney the approx. $3,000 dollars needed to complete the search, then there would be fees of many hundreds..........I just could not afford it.

(This decision has bothered me for many years and still does.)

After many months, I was beat down, frustrated, so I gave up. Now, many years later, they have since come out similar gun safes, (thank God).

This is a long story to get to what I wanted to say..........my original idea was to have an "inexpensive" way for the gun owners across America to have in their home, a simple plastic box, with a simple battery operated alarm system that would alarm as loud as a fire extinguisher to notify the parents that the box containing their gun had been opened.

Simple ? They now have many types I have seen on the market, but I have seen NONE made of a simple plastic case, made of simple parts etc., sold in walmart, kmart, lowes, home depot etc....for very affordable price for the homeowner.

So simple, so inexpensive to make..............something that could possibly save many lives each year.

You know these plastic gun cases for long and short guns, foam lined, sold in walmart and many other stores ? Would these not be perfect for some company to install a $1 or $2 dollare alarm in..........one that would ring at an high enough decibal level to be heard easily in a home, one that would make the person opening the box close the lid quickly...........or at least scare this person enough to make them stop.

I made my prototypes out of a $7 dollar fire alarm, with a 9 volt battery and a plastic box with a lid and a hidden off switch.

I keep hoping I will see a $29.99 alarm box at walmart, not sure why it's not already there, but it has to do with things in the design/patent/marketing system that only an expert in this field would know............sorry for the long rant, but this does not make any sense to me, which goes back to our original topic..........

So can someone answer the question why are these type ideas seemingly never used ?

Also, I figured the box could be used for anything the parents or owners did not want bothered such as medicine, jewelry etc.............

Oh, my next two patents went through rather easily...took a while though and very expensive I thought......not alarm related though. %-P


Robbie

 

[webbie]

If I added up all the time and energy I spent on my inventions and patents, I probably was working for $.50 an hour! Even the best of ideas is a long shot. I have lots of them, but ideas are cheap. It cost a bundle - even at the grass roots - to get something serious going. I think, in general, that a cost of 20K to 300K at the low end, and 5-10 years at the short end to make a product a success.

My extendaflue products are really cool, and I did get the patent, but I decided I don't want to invest another 5 years of time in the marketing and also don't want the result of that (I don't want to get bogged down running a physical operation).

I teach a night school class in inventions and bring products to market, and one thing I try to do is to make certain the class members know what is involved. Only the truly stubborn need apply!

Speaking of good ideas, one shortcut to possible invention success is to find good patents that are expired - yet where the product was never produced or marketed, and bring it to market. That saves a lot of time and money.

To answer your question, Robbie, I have found that most successful companies are NOT risk takers. They want someone else to take all the heat. It is better, for instance, for a chimney cap company to just sell their 30 year old models than to take a chance on a new design. They would rather wait until the inventor goes broke or the patent expires...or until the inventor succeeds (product is now proven). In other words, innovation is not high on the list for most companies.

Inventors are somewhat like musicians and artists - they are more into it for the process than the $$.

 

[coldinnj]

Good idea Wrench, one thought, I think instead of the cap dropping down to seal the top and thereby the escape route... how about a system that would seal the bottom hence the air intake / supply. You still would be starving out the fire plus preventing the fire or anything else from entering the home that way as well.
How aboutthe cap configured with the sensor as you mentioned that would then cause a device atthe bottom to pivot over and block off the boootm at the same time opening a CO2 extinguisher at said location. Simple, cheap, non life threatining, non property damaging.
Remeber me when you make a few million with it

 

[kevinmoelk]

Coldinnj, automatically blocking off "the other end" makes sense to me. Good idea.

I also had a thought about some kind of container on top of the cap which when opened during a chimney fire would dump down some dry extinguishing chemicals into the chimney. (EDIT: I just realized Robbie posted this above, sorry Robbie) I think the dropping cap idea has some viability, but it would be hard to make it drop and stay with the force of the fire pushing up from below.

What about a chimney that had some fire extinguishing ability built in? So that when a fire did occur and the interior wall was compromised the chimney itself has some dry chemicals inside that would release and help extinguish the fire.

There are certainly many ideas, but I have no delusions about spearheading development of any of these. As Craig noted, development takes lots of time and money... and I don't have enough of either.

PaulD, I like the idea of an automatic chimney cleaner. You could also have a "roomba" type cleaner... a robot chimney cleaner, just stick it in there and turn it on.

Robbie, good idea about the gun safe alarm. What are the other patents you have? Just curious.

-Kevin

 

[Robbie]

Wrenchmonster (Kevin), first, let me say I am truly sorry to read of your loss of Amy last year, I just read your bio and it made me very sad...........so sorry.

You must be a very strong person to say the least.






My 2 patents are knife patents.

Below is a story of my first knife patent, (mods, please remove all if not allowed)

(broken link removed to http://www.thedailytimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040816/NEWS/408160314&SearchID=73258146335665)

And a link/pic of me and my knife, (Japan link, click cancel).

(broken link removed to http://sog-japan.com/roberson/rr_01.html)





Robbie.

 

[kevinmoelk]

Wrenchmonster (Kevin), first, let me say I am truly sorry to read of your loss of Amy last year, I just read your bio and it made me very sad...........so sorry.

You must be a very strong person to say the least.






My 2 patents are knife patents.

Below is a story of my first knife patent, (mods, please remove all if not allowed)

(broken link removed to http://www.thedailytimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040816/NEWS/408160314&SearchID=73258146335665)

And a link/pic of me and my knife, (Japan link, click cancel).

(broken link removed to http://sog-japan.com/roberson/rr_01.html)





Robbie.

Off Topic: Robbie, thanks. I'm sorry too. My wife, Amy, was so dear to me... loosing her was the hardest point in my life, and continues to be tough for me. I have my good days and bad. As a wise person told me, "When you loose someone close to you, part of your heart and soul, you never get over it. You can only hope to get through it." Thank God for my family, friends, and my 4 dogs that keep me. Now everyone go hug your wife/husband/kids, and tell them you Love them.

On Topic: Wow, I'm truly impressed at the simplicity and ingenuity of your design. Simply beautiful. I have many knifes, probably not as many as you, but maybe 50 or so. It looks like now I'll have to add another to my wish list. Nice work Robbie.

-Kevin

 

[Robbie]

Thank you wrenchmonster. I think the flu fire idea is really a good one, just needs some tweaking. ;-)


Robbie

 

[ChrisN]

Robbie Wrote:

My 2 patents are knife patents.

Holy Crap Robbie. I was in the Groton CT Navy Exchange today looking for a gun lock and I saw these Ginormous SOG Seal knives hanging up. I actually picked one up and showed it to my wife commenting that I thought is was illegal for anyone to have a knive with a 7" blade on the base. That is one bad-ass knife design you came up with. Dang, it's a small world.

Chris

 

[coldinnj]

Just read the story in the link you posted Robbie. Way to go. Congratulations. I'm still not sure I understand the idea of the knife as to the revolving part though. But to get that far and to have it picked up and marketed like that is phenominal, good luck with it.

 

[Robbie]

Hey guys, I really appreciate the commnents. ;-) Happy New Year everyone, happy stove works. :lol:



Robbie

 

[kevinmoelk]

No problem Robbie. The success of your knife is well deserved.

Back on topic a little bit. I was thinking about why chimney caps are so plain jane. How come manufacturers don't have copper caps or add on fineals (sp) or more decorative caps. Perhaps I haven't looked hard enough.

-Kevin

 

[Robbie]

I wanted to bring this back up because the chimney cap idea from wrenchmonster made me start thinking about flu fires and related stove out of control.

Rather than starting a new post, below is an idea I got after reading his post.

What if we "stove people" had a "universal type" (for lack of better words)...... "plug in", that could be installed at the stove factory that would accomodate a "universally made" powder type fire extinquisher........ made just for out of control flu or stove fires ?

In other words, you buy "A" brand of stove....it has been "factory fitted" with a fitting some where, in an "easy accessable" area of said stove (side ?), just for inserting this adaptor plug or fire extinguisher nozzle to put a flu fire out.

This plug (located well above fire or coals) would be "air tight" until a special fire extinguisher plug (adaptor ?) was inserted into the hole, at which time it could release the contents of the powdered extinguisher agent into the stove.........hopefully either putting the fire out safely until the fire dept. pros arrived or at least slowing it down until they arrived.

This could also help control flu fires, or maybe even put them out.

The whole purpose of the "plug in" would be to eliminate the need to open the stove door, making an out of control fire or a flu fire much safer and easier to control.

After it's all done, then just shovel or vac. the coals and powder out...........and your done.

The "adaptors" or extinguishers could be sold at any store.............or the extinguishers could be made especially for these type holes in the stoves.

If the powder would not work well on flu fires, then a special type of stuff could be made to move up the chimney with the heat to extinguish the fire, all the while using the special hole on stove to eliminate the fire.

Of course this would be a last resort type thing, but even if you had to use it, it would still be easy to clean stove and start over.

Or could the stove pipe itself be used as a port for extinguishing flu fires, using the same type extinguisher ?

Is this possible you think ??


Robbie

 

[kevinmoelk]

Robbie, I think that is a great idea. My only objection would be the asthetics of a plug, a pipe sticking out of the stove, and the fire extinguisher sitting near the stove itself. The idea seems solid and practical, if only the system could be concealed enough not to detract from the beauty of the stove.

Requiring manufacturers to make accomodations would be difficult, and perhaps require legislation to force their hand. Or, it would take a leading manufacturer to spearhead the system. Computer aided diagnostics (On board diagnostics = OBD) on automobiles went through a similar process. GM was the first to use OBD and soon everyone had their own systems. The industry finally got together and in 1997 OBDII was born, which standardized the plug adapters and the list of codes assiciated with the respective computer/sensor problems.

-Kevin

 

[Robbie]

wrenchmonster, I agree with everything you said. It could be done to look nice, and maybe not a pipe sticking out, just a small coupling to accomodate a nozzle.

It could be done on a piece of stove pipe too, but I think I would trust the solid side of a steel or cast iron stove to plug it into.

Just think, you are busy and forget about your stove......oh crap.....your stove is raging, the flu is howling..... you reach for the "flu fire killer" and insert nozzle and ZAP......it's out, just a lot of smoke, but your problem is over, wait until the smoke clears and clean and re-light.

Wouldn't it be comforting to the new stove buyers to know that IF there was ever a flu fire or out of control fire that all they had to do was plug in the nozzle and the fire was out ?!

Out of control fiire has always been such a scary thing to me, this could make a huge difference in the way I felt, knowing I would not have to open my stove door until it was safe.


This kind of stuff drives me crazy ! %-P


Robbie

 

[kevinmoelk]

Oh, okay, maybe I misunderstood what you were describing. So this is just a "port" to allow you to place a fire extinguisher against and then fire off the extinguisher?

But how would the port work? I mean, it would have to be solid enough for regular operation. How would you open the plug?

-Kevin

 

[Robbie]

Exactly, just what ever would work the easiest and best that was inexpensive (of course) to get installed.

I have not gave it much thought yet as to how the port would work, it would need to be simple and fast, and no mistakes.

Kind of like a spring loaded port that opened with a little pressure maybe.

This is where the engineers could make something that would be simple and quick yet reliable to work even after maybe years of stove burning.

This port would need to work when you need it, the extinguisher product could be standard type with standard type nozzle that would fiit these stove ports.

Of course there would need to be lots of fine tuning, but the general idea would be easy, quick access to the inside of your stove without opening the door.

Heck, with something like this, you would not worry near as much about a flu fire, it could even be tested in your stove occasionally just to make sure it works on a really hot fire..............

Robbie

 

[kevinmoelk]

Here's a possible viable idea:

The port would be a tube. On the inside where it meets the combustion chamber there would be a hard plug, like a freeze plug on a cylinder head, press fit. The tube would move to the outside of the stove body. At the end of the tube would be some large heavy threads. The special nozzle adapter would have a built in "T" handle to engage the threads. The nozzle tip itself would be long enough and strong enough so that when you engaged the threads and started to turn the "T" handle the end would force the plug into the stove. At the same time, the threads would provide a strong, air tight connection. Then just shoot the fire extinguisher.

-Kevin

 

[Robbie]

That is a great idea ! Sounds like your right on track. ;-)

That is exactly what a person would need, then of course you could have a couple plugs on hand and just tap them back in from the inside ?

I think something like this would work, wonder why it is not in use yet ?

The whole idea I think is to put a fire out quick and easy without exposing yourself to dangerous heat or flames.

Robbie