Chimney Fire and expensive solution

[VintageGal]

New Member. I've been reading since my chimney fire.

In early January, had loaded the stove for bed, sat with it for awhile and watched the secondaries roil from the depths of hell. The stove wasn't sending any heat up the 15 ft. masonry chimney. Things got worse when I put my hands on the brick I couldn't hold my hands there for more than a second, it was so hot. All of the hearth was extremely hot to touch. I sat with the fire all night without sleep and eventually the firebox quieted down but the brick remained very hot.

Called the new chimney sweep in the early morning and being that he knew the neighborhood he came right out and we both came to the conclusion that I had a chimney fire happening at the base. First thing he did was to create a clean out door with his hammer. After he used a crowbar to remove the kitchen cabinet that was touching the back of the hearth, he proceeded to bust through two or three bricks with his hammer. Then came the garden hose. Upon the roof he poured 10 or 20 gallons of water, with his assistant and I mopping up water from my wood floor. After he created a clean out door he poured another 10 or 20 gallons. The heartbeat of the ember fire was finally extinguished. And my house was cold.

I found hearth.com and read every message from BHOLLAR concerning chimney construction. I'm very grateful to his experienced and stern advice.

It took me another month to accept that I would never again use the kitchen chimney for a wood fire. I had been burning for 9 years and the old woman prior to me had been burning for 14 years and the woman before her had been burning for 10 years. So the chimney was overdue for some issues. I was very lucky the house and I survived.

This was the combination of problems that led to my chimney fire:

No clean out door. I had been faithfully cleaning the chimney and brushing all of the creosote down to floor level and not under the house. When the chimney sweep started mucking out all of the wet creosote, he estimated 10 or 15 lbs.

The 8-in clay liner was only at the top 10 ft and the rest was rough masonry without a smoke shelf.

The clay liner was 8x8 inches --and it wasn't going to be possible to install an insulated flex liner no matter how much I wished it.

Clearance to combustibles was a total failure. The kitchen cabinets were bolted to the rear of the masonry. At the rear of the brick chimney, the center bricks were only one brick thick. There was some obvious pyrolysis happening with the kitchen cabinets.

All in all, the crisis is behind me and another 2 months of trying to shop for a new stove. I live in rural Northern California and there are only two wood dealerships. Any other dealership outside of my counter refused to sell me a stove because it was "outside of their service area". The first dealership was a Pacific energy enthusiast but when I asked him to install an insulated liner in the living room fireplace he refused and said I didn't need it. That left me with the last dealership and thank goodness, they were a very good to me.

The solution came at a hefty price tag for the littlest Lopi Answer. Because my new stove would require chimney pipe up through the kitchen roof and up through the attic with 2, 30° offsets. $5800 all said and done.

The stove and I have become fast friends and she is doing her job of heating my kitchen and dining area. The little lopi will not heat my entire 1000 ft house, 1969 construction.

Because the little stove will not heat the entire house I have just plunked down another $5,000 for a new CB1200i pellet stove to replace the old EF2 i built in 1994 ish. The pellet stove will go into the living room.

I just wanted to say thank you to everyone for being here and supporting each other.

I know this was a long introduction and I apologize but I have tried to summarize and maybe didn't do such a good job.

I was emotionally devastated by the chimney fire and if I can help another person avoid that fate, I'd like to share what I have learned.

I am a 62-year-old woman and cannot imagine living without it wood fire. I will burn wood as long as I am able. Peace and may you have warm hearths😁

 

[EbS-P]

Thank you for sharing. Now’s a good time get some good dry wood stacked and covered for that new stove!

 

[VintageGal]

Thank you for sharing. Now’s a good time get some good dry wood stacked and covered for that new stove!

Well there is that 2 cords in the wood shed that are begging to go into the stove. I thought I might supplement with the energy logs from Idaho but after a paid for demonstration, I can honestly say I don't like them lol there's a ton of wood down on the property that hopefully my son will help me split, and I'll learn to use my wood meter and test wood from the locals. I'd be happy to burn some softwood all day and turn the pellet stove on at night. I'm having some buyers remorse about the pellet stove but that's for another day. The EPA stove is fun to watch but it's smaller than my last and less radiant. I didn't want to pay another $500 for the blower fan and opted for setting a little fan nearby. I'm a little disappointed coming to the solid realization that the 'Answer' isn't going to heat as much square footage as I wanted.

 

[EbS-P]

Well there is that 2 cords in the wood shed that are begging to go into the stove. I thought I might supplement with the energy logs from Idaho but after a paid for demonstration, I can honestly say I don't like them lol there's a ton of wood down on the property that hopefully my son will help me split, and I'll learn to use my wood meter and test wood from the locals. I'd be happy to burn some softwood all day and turn the pellet stove on at night. I'm having some buyers remorse about the pellet stove but that's for another day. The EPA stove is fun to watch but it's smaller than my last and less radiant. I didn't want to pay another $500 for the blower fan and opted for setting a little fan nearby. I'm a little disappointed coming to the solid realization that the 'Answer' isn't going to heat as much square footage as I wanted.

What what are temps high and low for a cold 3 or 4 days for you?

My 1.7 cu ft burning pine can keep 2000 sq ft here livable (bedrooms 60 stove room/living room 75) down to mid 20s at night and as long as it gets above freezing during the day.

I think the pellet stove may be for another year or decade. It’s nice to have two heaters.

 

[VintageGal]

The coldest days are in January. It can range from 25° to 40° during the day. The temps here are currently about 40-50° daytime and night time. Since I'm older I like to be warmer and I'm wondering if it isn't psychological lol My plan is to use the pellet stove as primary and the wood stove as needed, especially for power outages which are all too common.

Have not lived with the little Lopi very long and I'm sure she could warm the house sufficiently if I feed her every 4 hours! But I'm tired and I want to go to bed and not have to fuss and fiddle in the middle of the night. I'm hoping that Classic Bay will allow me to set the temperature and go to bed and wake up to a warm house. Light the wood stove and repeat the cycle. My daughter told me to go on vacation and I told her that if I can go to bed at night without needing to get up to fuss over a stove that would be my vacation!

 

[EbS-P]

The coldest days are in January. It can range from 25° to 40° during the day. The temps here are currently about 40-50° daytime and night time. Since I'm older I like to be warmer and I'm wondering if it isn't psychological lol My plan is to use the pellet stove as primary and the wood stove as needed, especially for power outages which are all too common.

Have not lived with the little Lopi very long and I'm sure she could warm the house sufficiently if I feed her every 4 hours! But I'm tired and I want to go to bed and not have to fuss and fiddle in the middle of the night. I'm hoping that Classic Bay will allow me to set the temperature and go to bed and wake up to a warm house. Light the wood stove and repeat the cycle. My daughter told me to go on vacation and I told her that if I can go to bed at night without needing to get up to fuss over a stove that would be my vacation!

Mirrors my experience with an undersized stove too! And to be honest here it’s only that cold 10-14 days a year.

My father has an extension cord that he keeps coiled up the the crawl space that is hard wired to a second outlet near the pellet stove.(have no idea if it’s To code). His plan for longer cold power outages. It to pull out the extension cord and his small portable generator lto the patio and swap the stove plug to the other extension cord receptacle.

There are other solutions to power pellet stoves during power outages like batteries but if you need or already have a generator I think this makes a lot of sense. It beats running cord through the house. But that’s always an option too.

 

[VintageGal]

The pellet stove will be installed into a full masonry fireplace. I'm not even going to try to provide a backup for the pellet stove when I have the wood stove in the kitchen. I have an open concept home and everything stays sufficiently warm except for my bedroom. When there's a power outage I closed the doors to the other half of the house and sleep on the couch with the wood stove. I've lived like this for so many years I wouldn't know how to continue without the struggle LOL

It's always good to have a Plan B!

The dealership thought I would benefit greatly from a propane fireplace insert but I was unwilling to spend $4,000 to bring propane to the property. I also have not enjoyed speaking with the propane managers. They told me they would set a 100 gallon tank but not 250 gallon tank. He told me he only makes money by filling up people's tanks every 8 weeks and I just did not want to sign up for his program!

When I'm old (er), I'll probably install a heat pump.

I'm just trying to delay my mortality by burning wood as long as I can. I have one friend and she's a tiny woman who had back problems for the past 5 years and she told me that she may not be able to carry an armful of wood but on her worst days she could carry one stick at a time. You have to admire our tenacity 🔥

 

[stoveliker]

That's a spirit I admire!

On the other hand, you've earned a bit of comfort after having lived a life with that spirit. Why not install the heat pump in a year or two (when prices hopefully have come down a bit, and before another decade of price increases will have made them much more expensive). You don't have to use it if you feel like wanting a fire, but you CAN use it if you need it or don't want to mess with the stove.

In my opinion heat pumps don't wear out by not using them much.

Just a thought. For now: enjoy the flames!

 

[VintageGal]

I was under a lot of pressure to make some fast decisions with regards to the wood stove. It was cold and I was heating with two oil-filled electric radiators and freezing my butt off. The dealerships didn't want to talk until I opened my wallet which I'm loath to do being very Scottish LOL I had so many questions and I still do and they laughed at me. It wasn't until I made a deposit that I could get the installer out here to look at the situation. One of my greatest obstacles is the fact that my masonry fireplace has a heatilator installed and so I hadn't realized until a month ago that heatilator has its own lintel. My masonry fireplace has a 4.5" steel lintel --and the heatilator has a 4 in lintel of its own! Combined, my fireplace lintel (with concrete fill) is 10 and 1/2 in deep!! Nothing was going to fit in my fireplace!! The flu collars simply could not clear my lintel. And that's why I paid a fortune to have the stove pipes go up through my kitchen ceiling.

As for the heat pumps, I'm going to need to do my research because the dealers want to deal and I want to be educated first.

Haven't ruled it out but I haven't had the time yet to study that technology.

It just makes more sense to get the heat pump rather than pay for the propane lines to the property. It's bad enough paying one utility service but I don't want to marry both of them lol

 

[VintageGal]

I have read that the heat pumps have a lifespan of 10 or 15 years? And so do I LOL

When I can't carry an armfull of wood or haul the 40 lb sack of pellets to the mudroom, that's the time for me to install the heat pump 🙏

 

[spudman99]

Dont install propane at that cost. Propane can be expensive seasonally depending on location, plus it needs to be trucked to your location. A heat pump (or better yet a mini-split) system is your best solution. They are so efficient nowadays that the electric use is not that high, especially in a small house.

Keep your eye out for a used Blaze King or Woodstock on the FB marketplace or other local resources. Maybe you can upgrade your Lopi to a longer burning stove (and sell the Lopi for a small loss). I also echo EBS and get some wood split now to dry over the summer. Think that 3 year plan. And keep reading and posting here as this community is really supportive and helpful.

 

[VintageGal]

Dont install propane at that cost. Propane can be expensive seasonally depending on location, plus it needs to be trucked to your location. A heat pump (or better yet a mini-split) system is your best solution. They are so efficient nowadays that the electric use is not that high, especially in a small house.

Keep your eye out for a used Blaze King or Woodstock on the FB marketplace or other local resources. Maybe you can upgrade your Lopi to a longer burning stove (and sell the Lopi for a small loss). I also echo EBS and get some wood split now to dry over the summer. Think that 3 year plan. And keep reading and posting here as this community is really supportive and helpful.

Thanks for the support! Propane is $3.45 ga. And seasoned (sort of) oak cord wood is $350 cord. Premium pellets are $400 delivered. So I'm not getting any big breaks no matter which one I choose! I think the cost of wood and pellets are more stable over time. I'm sure I will have to make another decision in a few years but this has been a hard hard winter for me. And then the frost just blew through here the other night and killed every living leaf on every new fruit tree, grapes and figs and kiwi plants all killed. And another month we will be on forest fire alerts for the rest of the summer. Power will go out and smoke will fill the air outdoors and we wear respirators sometimes to go to town. I'm just trying to have a plan to stay warm for the next 5 or 10 years. ✌️

 

[marty319]

Ya need to move here,less risk of forest fires

 

[VintageGal]

Ya need to move here,less risk of forest fires

View attachment 294788

Ya need to move here,less risk of forest fires

View attachment 294788

My blood has thinned after 35 years in California! I think I'll pass thanks lol

 

[moresnow]

And then the frost just blew through here the other night and killed every living leaf on every new fruit tree, grapes and figs and kiwi plants all killed. And another month we will be on forest fire alerts for the rest of the summer. Power will go out and smoke will fill the air outdoors and we wear respirators sometimes to go to town. I'm just trying to have a plan to stay warm for the next 5 or 10 years. ✌️

Really?
Why? Just why?

Just kidding. Surely there are benefits to being there.

 

[VintageGal]

Because nobody wants us Cali-fornicators moving into their state! 😁

 

[begreen]

Did the installer/sweep discuss breaking out the tile liner and installing an insulated 6" liner in its place? Just curious.

 

[VintageGal]

Did the installer/sweep discuss breaking out the tile liner and installing an insulated 6" liner in its place? Just curious.

I discussed every possible way of remediating my chimney. No one was willing to break out the clay liner! And even if I found someone to go down that road, there was a 30° offset running towards the masonry thimble. In addition, there was not the requisite clearance to combustibles where the kitchen cabinets and bookshelf were anchored to the chimney (See pic). The only thing I could have done would have been to tear down and rebuild the chimney and that would have cost me a lot more than the final "Answer".

 

[begreen]

It's a challenge when you can't find someone to do the job. Wood against a chimney is not that uncommon; usually, it's structural. An insulated liner gets it down to zero clearance.

 

[VintageGal]

It's a challenge when you can't find someone to do the job. Wood against a chimney is not that uncommon; usually, it's structural. An insulated liner gets it down to zero clearance.

8x8-in clay liner and an insulated liner would not have fit at all. I actually had a person come with an insulated 6-in and it would not fit. And it would not have made that offset because there was no way to terminate. A Pacific energy stove dealer came to my home and said that it was a traditional trash burner. I guess they used these trash burners in the '60s?! However there was a legacy of three women totaling 34 years of continuous service as a wood stove chimney. I live in a rural location and there were absolutely zero chimney professionals. I called Sacramento the nearest city and spoke with to so-called experts and they wouldn't do it either!

 

[EbS-P]

I discussed every possible way of remediating my chimney. No one was willing to break out the clay liner! And even if I found someone to go down that road, there was a 30° offset running towards the masonry thimble. In addition, there was not the requisite clearance to combustibles where the kitchen cabinets and bookshelf were anchored to the chimney (See pic). The only thing I could have done would have been to tear down and rebuild the chimney and that would have cost me a lot more than the final "Answer".

View attachment 294791 View attachment 294792 View attachment 294794

I think you made a good decision. Simple, reliable, serviceable and while not cheap, good work and products often aren’t. Sure there are probably other ways but nothing wrong with this way.

 

[VintageGal]

I think you made a good decision. Simple, reliable, serviceable and while not cheap, good work and products often aren’t. Sure there are probably other ways but nothing wrong with this way.

Thank you. It was a very sentimental decision because I did not want to abandon this hearth. I could have easily taken out the hearth and expanded my kitchen a little bit and forgot about it. But I have a second chimney in the living room and that has its own set of issues. Oh my gosh it was exhausting and I could have gone to propane gas 🙃

 

[bholler]

8x8-in clay liner and an insulated liner would not have fit at all. I actually had a person come with an insulated 6-in and it would not fit. And it would not have made that offset because there was no way to terminate. A Pacific energy stove dealer came to my home and said that it was a traditional trash burner. I guess they used these trash burners in the '60s?! However there was a legacy of three women totaling 34 years of continuous service as a wood stove chimney. I live in a rural location and there were absolutely zero chimney professionals. I called Sacramento the nearest city and spoke with to so-called experts and they wouldn't do it either!

No an insulated liner wouldn't fit inside an 8x8 liner. But the liner can be removed and then it will fit fine

 

[VintageGal]

No an insulated liner wouldn't fit inside an 8x8 liner. But the liner can be removed and then it will fit fine

I would have hired you! I don't think there's anyone in Northern California that does what you do. I must have called a dozen chimney sweeps and there were no takers. Moving on. It caused me so much grief I'm ready to live with the solution and make the best of it. Have a nice safe installation and I can sleep well at night knowing my house isn't going to burn down.

 

[bholler]

I would have hired you! I don't think there's anyone in Northern California that does what you do. I must have called a dozen chimney sweeps and there were no takers. Moving on. It caused me so much grief I'm ready to live with the solution and make the best of it. Have a nice safe installation and I can sleep well at night knowing my house isn't going to burn down.

Yeah absolutely nothing wrong with your solution.