Clean diesel
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I only see 2 good uses for Urea. 28% to apply to corn an d DEF to spray on hay as a foiliar inoculant. Far as I'm concerned it's all cat pee.
VW playing tricks with the emissions testing. Maybe this is how they got by without using Urea. The same thing happened to Navistar when they didn't use urea.
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/09/1...s-over-emissions-software.html?_r=0&referrer=
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/09/1...s-over-emissions-software.html?_r=0&referrer=
Last month, a full 85% of warranty and non warranty work going through our shop was emissions related. DEF injection issues accounted for 90% of that 85% in emissions work. The issue isn't the DEF injection, the issue is the lowest bidder cheap azzed components that fail.
Tier 4 is a PITA for the consumer and a goldmine for shops like ours.
Tier 4 is a PITA for the consumer and a goldmine for shops like ours.
I expect more than few folks will elect not to have VW change the software to cut out the emissions bypass software and there will probably be a good market for ECUs that haven't been modified. Over the years the government has busted "superchip" suppliers for selling "off road/racing" chips that effectively do the same thing as the VW chips.
There is and has been a great aftermarket for chips and tuners. It's an easy upgrade. Good example is my '97 Ford 7.3 diesel. I've removed all the emissions componentry from the engine. With every change, it ran better and delivered better fuel mileage. With a simple reprogramming of the ECM through a piggyback chip, I incresed the horsepower over 100 ponies (verifiied on a dyno). It's easy and painless. All it takes is the will and a wallet.
One other (not widely publicized) aspect of altering the emissions hardware and software is, it increases the engine's useable lifespan. Emissions hardware especially, puts an added heat load on an engine and heat is any internal combustion engine's worst enemy. Tier 4 engines run much hotter than their counterparts (which is why engine builders are turning increasely to ceramic internal parts. Ceramics can withstand the additional heat better than conventional metallic alloys but the basic components will always be metal so reduction in heat output (which is, in reality a total waste because it excess heat don't produce useable power, it's parasitic loss) will always extend component life.
Thats how it works.
Again, the big issue with Tier 4 compliant diesel engines we see in the shop isn't mechanical failure, it's emissions related component failure brought about by the 'buy from the lowest bidder and sell at the highest price' philosophy. Keep in mind that there isn't any new 'rocket science' in Tier 4 engines. Everyone, and I mean everyone, shares the same 'lowest bidder' components.
The biggest issue with DEF injection relates to the emulsified and suspended salts in DEF. Urea in liquid form has a high concentration of suspended salts. What occurs is, those suspended salts, crystalize at the injection point and render the system inoperable with the resultant error codes and power deration.
Every engine builder (automotive and truck, any engine with DEF injection deals with the same issue. What really brought on the issues was the technology wasn't ready for prime time (and still isn't really) and cheap components. Guess what, in the end, the consumer (you) pays for that lack of engineering time.
Thats how it works.
Again, the big issue with Tier 4 compliant diesel engines we see in the shop isn't mechanical failure, it's emissions related component failure brought about by the 'buy from the lowest bidder and sell at the highest price' philosophy. Keep in mind that there isn't any new 'rocket science' in Tier 4 engines. Everyone, and I mean everyone, shares the same 'lowest bidder' components.
The biggest issue with DEF injection relates to the emulsified and suspended salts in DEF. Urea in liquid form has a high concentration of suspended salts. What occurs is, those suspended salts, crystalize at the injection point and render the system inoperable with the resultant error codes and power deration.
Every engine builder (automotive and truck, any engine with DEF injection deals with the same issue. What really brought on the issues was the technology wasn't ready for prime time (and still isn't really) and cheap components. Guess what, in the end, the consumer (you) pays for that lack of engineering time.
In today's climate of Tier 4 compliant diesels, in actuality, you are better off with a gasser. That technology has caught up and surpassed gummit regs, but then, gasoline engine builders have had 3 decades to perfect the emissions componentry.
Sure there are and they are also having the same issues concerning DEF. The DEF is a world wide pancea for emissions reduction, well, maybe not wprldwide, China conveniently ignores the standard...
Until Tier 4, everyone, worldwide was Tier 3 or less. Actually, at present, most builders are at Tier 4 interem. Tier 4 final is even more stringent. Great things coming....
Until Tier 4, everyone, worldwide was Tier 3 or less. Actually, at present, most builders are at Tier 4 interem. Tier 4 final is even more stringent. Great things coming....
The answer is, and there is an answer, is for technology to advance enough to mitigate most of the components... and it will, eventually, that and better reliability in the components that will still be required.
Just take a step back to the 60's with gasoline smog motors in cars, wasn't that a fond memory...not. When you opened the hood, you were greeted with what appeared to be miles of hoses, air pumps, 3 way catalyists and none of it worked all that well, in fact, if you turned your engine off and it was hot.... It kept on running... wasn't that called 'dieseling'?? Engines were sick, lacked power and got terrible mileage, but all that is gone now, because technology caught up. Now you can buy cars with gas engines that run better, are more efficient and deliver better fuel mileage than they did even before the 'smog motor' era.
Same thing will occur in diesels but in the interem, owners will be shackled with engines wth issues...
I believe at some point in the future, DEF injection will disappear from 4 stroke diesel engines entirely. Cannot come too soon however.
Why I will not buy any equipment with a blue (def) fuel cap.
Just take a step back to the 60's with gasoline smog motors in cars, wasn't that a fond memory...not. When you opened the hood, you were greeted with what appeared to be miles of hoses, air pumps, 3 way catalyists and none of it worked all that well, in fact, if you turned your engine off and it was hot.... It kept on running... wasn't that called 'dieseling'?? Engines were sick, lacked power and got terrible mileage, but all that is gone now, because technology caught up. Now you can buy cars with gas engines that run better, are more efficient and deliver better fuel mileage than they did even before the 'smog motor' era.
Same thing will occur in diesels but in the interem, owners will be shackled with engines wth issues...
I believe at some point in the future, DEF injection will disappear from 4 stroke diesel engines entirely. Cannot come too soon however.
Why I will not buy any equipment with a blue (def) fuel cap.
I think the VW recall is a big deal. 500,000 newish cars that need to have their computers reflashed to get legal emissions. After they do that, performance will be noticeably worse.
A few questions:
--If you have a safety/defect recall, you take it in for repairs. In this case, many will opt not to take it in, b/c they care more about performance than NOx. I suppose all recalled vehicles will be automatically failed on their next emission test unless a proof of recall/reprogramming has occurred (easy). Or will the emission control software be updated to detect the defeat device (hard)? After the failure, the car will get reprogrammed.
--After the car has been fixed, with degraded performance (power, not just mpg), how many will blame the EPA, and how many will blame VW, now the world's largest car company?
--Both GM and Toyota for their safety defects, that resulted in dozens of lost lives, were fined ~$1B. Apparently the laws on the books allow fines in the VW case of up to $18B. For comparison, it looks like the number of premature deaths in the US because of all NOx emissions is estimated to be ~15,000/yr. This number of course includes power plants and agricultural emissions, as well as diesel. Someone will come up with an estimate for the number of premature US deaths due to this little software feature...over the last 6 years it could easily be in the thousands. Remember that most ag and power plant emissions are far removed from population centers, while the VW NOx is right in urban areas.
--In the GM/Toyota cases, we had execs that could claim to be 'unsure what was going on', their info was anecdotal and after the fact about defects. In the VW case, the entire defect was put in in a premeditated way, they knew that higher NOx emissions would result AND the relationship between NOx, smog and premature death was established decades ago (as the rationale for the regs they were cheating). In other words, a corporation made a premeditated illegal action that they knew would result in thousands of premature deaths in other countries. Oh well, I guess tobacco companies probably kill more people before lunch every day. Of course, car companies like to crow about the importance of keeping you safe.
--Unlike the GM/Toyota cases, there will be no crying moms holding press conferences...just statisticians making reports.
--As much as folks hate class action suits...if you have this car, and its decrease in mpg and performance causes its cost of ownership to go up $1000, and its resale to go down $1000, are you mad enough to sign up for the suit? At a couple $k per owner, it will be a $1B suit.
--After the recalls, both GM and Toyota sales took a noticeable hit. VW sales are already cr@ppy in the US, will the media attention to VW killing thousands of americans to make some $$ basically kill their sales in the US for years? I think it is possible.
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http://www.greencarreports.com/news...esels-actually-not-nearly-as-clean-as-claimed
Given the history of the company, not sure if this is appropriate or inappropriate:
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First off. unless you need a heavy duty high torque engine for specialized use (like pulling your tandem axle travel trailer or a gooseneck or you are in business and need a truck for hauling, there is no reason to own a diesel, especially a small displacemennt diesel in a passanger car. There is no logical reason, at all. especially considering the up front cost and the lowered mileage (diesel fuel costs more as well) of a diesxel engine compared to a gasoline engine.
So why do people buy them? Because it's 'cool' to have a diesel car...... thats why.....
Any production diesel below 5 liters, the gasoline counterpart is more efficient, produces more power, costs initially less and the fuel is cheaper, but people aren't rational anyway/.
I chuckled reading the article about France doing away with diesel entirely in their country..... I've never considered Frenchmen to be very intellegent and they are pigs, France is a dirty, littered country (I've been there btw). I wonder how they expect to get their hard goods delivered.... no diesel trucks.... thats laughable. Bicycle basket maybe...lol
In reality, we (meaning the whole globe minus China of course) wouldn't be going through this crap if it wasn't for tree huggers and 'climate change....oh, and global warming, none of which I personally ascribe to.
I guess you reap what you sow....
So why do people buy them? Because it's 'cool' to have a diesel car...... thats why.....
Any production diesel below 5 liters, the gasoline counterpart is more efficient, produces more power, costs initially less and the fuel is cheaper, but people aren't rational anyway/.
I chuckled reading the article about France doing away with diesel entirely in their country..... I've never considered Frenchmen to be very intellegent and they are pigs, France is a dirty, littered country (I've been there btw). I wonder how they expect to get their hard goods delivered.... no diesel trucks.... thats laughable. Bicycle basket maybe...lol
In reality, we (meaning the whole globe minus China of course) wouldn't be going through this crap if it wasn't for tree huggers and 'climate change....oh, and global warming, none of which I personally ascribe to.
I guess you reap what you sow....
Historically diesel fuel cost less. In the past decade it started costing more until recently in the past year where it now frequently costs less again. Diesel engines (going back pre-2000) were also known for lower service interval and reliability. Diesel Mercedes and VW owners loved the clatterboxes. Torque is another reason they have been favored. Diesel vans make great campers even though they have under much under 5 liter motors.
The opinion of France is provincial, xenophobic, unnecessary and quite in error, though I suppose they could easily say the same about US using that criteria.
The opinion of France is provincial, xenophobic, unnecessary and quite in error, though I suppose they could easily say the same about US using that criteria.
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As I understand it, this is not about CO2/global warming as much as good old fashioned pollution: soot (C nanoparticles), VOCs and NOx. All of which make smog and ozone and hurt people close to where they are emitted (i.e. 99% in the same country). I think we are all old enough to remember when the US air was in places nearly as dirty as China's is now, and also to know that (courtesy of Nixon and Bush Sr) the Clean Air Act has helped that and saved lives.
Do you personally ascribe to the anti-smog provisions of the Clean Air Act, separate from any current CO2 provisions?
FYI, I have been following your technical info re the diesel tech in the field with great interest.
French/EU ban link: http://www.greencarreports.com/news...els-in-europe-france-to-phase-out-diesel-fuel
Hey I think you missed a couple folks.. Might be some remote group somewhere you haven't yet insulted.
Its you life, if you want to live it with your head in the sand..........
Times they are a changing in Europe where the govt has the heath costs of particulate pollution to pay for as well. It looks like what is happening in France could be the beginning of a larger trend. The last French car I leased was a Peugeot 407which had a gas ICE and it was a dream to drive. More recently we rented a diesel BMW Mini Cooper-wagon in Italy. It was right sized for their ancient towns but not so much fun to drive. In particular I didn't like the uneveness of the turbo-boost and choppy freeway ride.
My head is far from the sand.... I'm old but not senile and as far as insulting you, I wasn't directing my comment5s at anyone in partucular, just commenting on what I deal with everyday at my job / profession.
I don't care what you drive even if it's a bicycle because you paid for it, not me.
Thats a hard one to answer. Candidly, I don't know if I do or not. I do know the Tier 4 mandates and the continuing tightening of the standards perpetuates my job. My personal vehicles and tractors that are diesel are all pre-Tier 3 and I don't ever expect to purchase a Tier 4 + engine, so I guess my reply would ber no, I don't.
Additionally, I believe there are some aspects of the CAM that aren't good, like the ethanol mandate. E plants cannot exist without gunnit subsidies and that means I'm as a taxpayer are keeping them afloat and buying their product too. Something basically wrong with that.
I was under the impression that Mini-Cooper was Brtitish Leyland, not BMW but then I'm not a fan of them at all. I don't believe I've owned a car in the last decade that was 'fun' to drive... I look at motor vehicles as tools that makes life easier. I think the last fun car I had was a 66 Vette Stingray Convertible with a 427/390 and a 4 speed, that was a 'fun' car.
It's funny if not anything else....
I have the book Thinking Small by Andrea Hiott. It's a good read btw.
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