Cleaning a catalytic combustor with vinegar bath

[NHWS]

I don't know enough to agree or disagree, but the MidWest Hearth site seems to say the opposite on some points:

Metal substrate catalytic combustors provide a lower resistance to air flow and require less heat to warm up to operating temperature. The corrugated metal allows chimney smoke to flow through almost 90% of the total front area while still providing more surface area than a ceramic combustor.

Another advantage of a metal substrate is the ability to manufacture the combustor cells with significantly thinner walls allowing more surface area per inch and thus converting more of the smoke into less harmful emissions. ...

• Metal reaches operating temperature faster
• Metal has more surface area for less emissions and more heat
• Metal does not crumble
• Overall service life is the same

The Condar catalytic combustor site says similar things.

It's plausible that either/both sites are just pushing the higher cost product.

 

[Graphite]

Thanks - helpful post - giving it a go with my Elmira Fireview 1100 👍

 

[RustyShackleford]

So if I executed the search properly, I see that @BKVP has not weighed in on this issue of whether the vinegar bath is worthwhile or not.

 

[stoveliker]

I have not done this, and I don't know how porous the ceramic substrate is, and have not read other manuals that do recommend it.
If you have a ceramic cat, I would make sure to dry the cat properly before firing up after making it wet.
You don't want moisture in any pores cracking the ceramics.

 

[kennyp2339]

I did mine a few years back, honestly wasn’t worth it to me, after buying the vinegar, setting up the burner and stock pot, cleaning it and then cleaning all the other stuff, resetting the gasket and the down time of the stove, it was way easier to just part with the $200 and get a new cat replacement

 

[BKVP]

So if I executed the search properly, I see that @BKVP has not weighed in on this issue of whether the vinegar bath is worthwhile or not.

Yes, done correctly, the overplating is removed exposing the precious metals. Generally, while not new performance, it has shown to add 2+ seasons to cat life.

BKVP

 

[Todd]

Yes, done correctly, the overplating is removed exposing the precious metals. Generally, while not new performance, it has shown to add 2+ seasons to cat life.

BKVP

So what is the correct method? I’ve seen 50/50 solution spray, soak or boil?

 

[BKVP]

So what is the correct method? I’ve seen 50/50 solution spray, soak or boil?

Distilled water/Vinegar 50/50, back porch!, bring to boil. Dunk combustor into boiling solution. Raise out of solution after 10 minutes. Let cool. Then rinse with clean Distilled water, twice. Then air dry 24 hours. Wrap with new combustor gasket.

BKVP

 

[BKVP]

Friend sent me this today. No shirt, no service! And shorts, out you go.

BKVP

 

[begreen]

No shirt, no service!

Apparently, no brains qualifies.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Yes, done correctly, the overplating is removed exposing the precious metals. Generally, while not new performance, it has shown to add 2+ seasons to cat life.

Two seasons seems pretty worthwhile to me. Vinegar and distilled water are extremely cheap. I have an old catalytic converter I took out of service awhile back, so no downtime.

Looks like the equipment can be had for $30 or so:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09G99VMB7/ref=ox_sc_act_title_4?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&th=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001VZ5A5I/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

 

[BKVP]

How To Care For Your Catalytic Combustor

www.woodmanspartsplus.com

 

[begreen]

I suspect that when most people resort to the vinegar bath cleaning, the cat is already at close to end of life. In that case, extended life might be more like 2 months instead of 2 yrs.

 

[BKVP]

I suspect that when most people resort to the vinegar bath cleaning, the cat is already at close to end of life. In that case, extended life might be more like 2 months instead of 2 yrs.

Applied and Sud Chemie both studied the regenerative results and stated 2 seasons, then replace.

My personal experience is the same. But after the procedure, and ample drying time, I bag it for a backup.

BKVP

 

[stoveliker]

Distilled water/Vinegar 50/50, back porch!, bring to boil. Dunk combustor into boiling solution. Raise out of solution after 10 minutes. Let cool. Then rinse with clean Distilled water, twice. Then air dry 24 hours. Wrap with new combustor gasket.

BKVP

And this is the same for steel cats? The woodmans page shows only a ceramic cat pic.

No corrosion of the steel in the acid mix?

Also, you say boiling 50/50. The webpage only mentions boiling water to rinse it clean after the (implied imo) room temp acid mix.

 

[BKVP]

And this is the same for steel cats? The woodmans page shows only a ceramic cat pic.

No corrosion of the steel in the acid mix?

Also, you say boiling 50/50. The webpage only mentions boiling water to rinse it clean after the (implied imo) room temp acid mix.

I'm old, new knee, and I was pretty close! Do it the same for both substrate materials.

BKVP

 

[stoveliker]

I'm old, new knee, and I was pretty close! Do it the same for both substrate materials.

BKVP

You have my respect ;-)

Thanks

 

[Megunticook]

Applied and Sud Chemie both studied the regenerative results and stated 2 seasons, then replace.

My personal experience is the same. But after the procedure, and ample drying time, I bag it for a backup.

Condar (manufactures combustors in North Carolina) told me about 3 years ago not to do any more vinegar baths. They didn't give specifics but said they no longer recommend the procedure. Presumably they saw the research @BKVP mentions above or did their own.

 

[BKVP]

Condar (manufactures combustors in North Carolina) told me about 3 years ago not to do any more vinegar baths. They didn't give specifics but said they no longer recommend the procedure. Presumably they saw the research @BKVP mentions above or did their own.

The manufacturing of the ceramic substrates requires a huge investment in materials. I have visited Applied twice and their kilns are massive. Applied Ceramics was selling the ceramic cats to Condar. My understanding is there are no other ceramic substrate manufacturers in the USA. Perhaps they are Clariant ceramic combustors out of Germany?

I just got off the phone a learned that Brookhaven National Labs has been studying the cleaning process (rejuvenation) process and will be publishing their findings. They are studying the metal substrates and the cleaning process. If the combustor has not seen thermal degradation (over firing), then they will share that the combustor, after cleaning, remains 85% of new performance in emissions reductions. The finding will be shared at Hearth Expo in March.

BKVP

 

[Highbeam]

I suspect that when most people resort to the vinegar bath cleaning, the cat is already at close to end of life. In that case, extended life might be more like 2 months instead of 2 yrs.

I agree and find this notion of "2 seasons more life", whatever that means, to be ridiculous. Obviously the condition of the catalyst pre wash must be considered because cleaning a healthy cat that is covered in scale is far more beneficial than cleaning a very dead cat. Obviously the amount of burning you do in a season is a factor here since if you burn one day a year then the number of years gained by an acid wash is far different from the user that burns 24/7 for 9 months a year.

I read here once before that some huge majority, was it 95%?, of cat failures were due to thermal shock. Rinsing in acid does not remedy damage from thermal shock so just who benefits from an acid wash? Is it the guy that just plugged his cat with ash?

In the end anybody can try an acid wash, to satisfy your curiosity, or in an emergency but don't be surprised to only gain a very short extension of the inevitable. Sheesh, 2 seasons, I barely get two seasons of life from a new cat which is well over 12000 hours and to be expected. The acid wash in this thread, my thread, gained me a short extension of say 3 months. Which is about 2000 hours.

It’s fun and made a noticeable difference but it only bought me a few more months. In my case, the cat was just past the rated service life. If your cat is still young but coated with “stuff” then you may get more bang for your vinegar buck.

 

[BKVP]

I agree and find this notion of "2 seasons more life", whatever that means, to be ridiculous. Obviously the condition of the catalyst pre wash must be considered because cleaning a healthy cat that is covered in scale is far more beneficial than cleaning a very dead cat. Obviously the amount of burning you do in a season is a factor here since if you burn one day a year then the number of years gained by an acid wash is far different from the user that burns 24/7 for 9 months a year.

I read here once before that some huge majority, was it 95%?, of cat failures were due to thermal shock. Rinsing in acid does not remedy damage from thermal shock so just who benefits from an acid wash? Is it the guy that just plugged his cat with ash?

In the end anybody can try an acid wash, to satisfy your curiosity, or in an emergency but don't be surprised to only gain a very short extension of the inevitable. Sheesh, 2 seasons, I barely get two seasons of life from a new cat which is well over 12000 hours and to be expected. The acid wash in this thread, my thread, gained me a short extension of say 3 months. Which is about 2000 hours.

Let's wait for the experts in chemical engineering at Brookhaven National Labs to publish their findings.

BKVP

 

[Highbeam]

Let's wait for the experts in chemical engineering at Brookhaven National Labs to publish their findings.

BKVP

If their findings include a ridiculous undefined term such as "seasons" then we know that they are not serious.

Would be great news if the chemistry has changed to allow an acid bath to gain 10,000 more hours of life from an otherwise dead and clean catalyst.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Let's wait for the experts in chemical engineering at Brookhaven National Labs to publish their findings.

I'm a gonna spring for the $30 worth of equipment (that I linked in post #86 above) and$5 worth of "chemicals" and see what happens.

But it's awesome that you're here telling us about this stuff and I can't wait to hear the results - although you kinda gave a spoiler in post #94 above, no ? Be interesting to hear if they used reagant-grade acetic acid (which isn't all that expensive).