Concern about firebox size - Brentwood? Villa Vista? Bis Ultra?

[c_rauen]

First time poster here...I bought a 1340 sq ft. home in a tract house subdivision that has all built-in open fireplaces. It's a milder climate in this part of California but does get cold enough to build fires during the winter. Having moved from a colder climate, I've been using this fireplace more like a wood stove when it *does* get cold but it's eating wood like crazy, heat up the chimney...you know the story. Obviously the fireplace was meant for asthetics, not heat.

I am looking to rip it out and replace the unit altogether, and have been looking seriously at the Lennox Brentwood. My biggest issue is the size of the firebox - 2.0 cu ft! Is it possible to start a proper fire in such a small space??? I can just see myself fighting with the logs to jam everything in, when I'm used to a much larger open firebox space. The Villa Vista *seems* to have a larger firebox but it's specs say the longest log length is 19"...can't find any other specs on it. Also looked at the Bis Ultra, but again, no details on the firebox size from their website. Should this even be a concern?

I have seen larger models from other brands, but they heat in excess of 2500 sq ft and I don't want to cook myself out of the house, either. Any comments/suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

 

[BotetourtSteve]

If you start comparing apples to apples and search the web (and this site) on the various models of stoves out there, you will find the 2 cu ft firebox to be as common as the cold. The "EPA stoves" as most are referred to (stoves built with reburn technology-tubes in top that reburn smoke) typically allow wood to burn longer, hence the reason firebox sizes have gotten smaller without sacrificing burn time and heating. That said, now of course the larger stoves (3 cu ft) obviously will burn longer and hotter, but again, the 2 cu ft stoves are VERY common for applications such as yours where maximum heat and/or burn time is not needed due to climate and/or house size among other factors.

I recently purchased a new 3 cu ft stove, and I even thought at first that that firebox looked small. Trust me, you gotta see it to believe it as far as how much slower the wood will burn in these stoves while still putting out heat, since you are reburning the gases coming off of the burning logs instead of going up the chimney like the stoves of old.

Good luck in your search - there are a lot of good stoves out there so you will have plenty to choose from.

 

[webbie]

Given you climate and house, you should not go bigger - you will be amazed at the amount of heat you get out of a 1.5 to 2.0 cubic foot firebox. Shorter wood...in the end...means you will use less wood.

 

[DiscoInferno]

I use a BIS Ultima (the Brentwood is a rebadged Ultima) for near 100% heating of a 2000 sqft house with not the greatest insulation. I'm in the DC area, which means average winter highs in the 30's and 40's and lows in the 20's, dropping to the single digits now and again. I burn from about late october into april. If I was to do it again I might get something slightly larger, but I think you'll find that 2cf is plenty for your application. Actual firebox dimensions: about 18" wide at the back, maybe 21-22" wide at the front (the box tapers), about 16" deep, and 11-12" tall.

 

[c_rauen]

I use a BIS Ultima (the Brentwood is a rebadged Ultima) for near 100% heating of a 2000 sqft house with not the greatest insulation. I'm in the DC area, which means average winter highs in the 30's and 40's and lows in the 20's, dropping to the single digits now and again. I burn from about late october into april. If I was to do it again I might get something slightly larger, but I think you'll find that 2cf is plenty for your application. Actual firebox dimensions: about 18" wide at the back, maybe 21-22" wide at the front (the box tapers), about 16" deep, and 11-12" tall.

This is great news to hear...much appreciated! If you are heating your home well where you are, then it will definitely work out here on the west coast. Are you using a blower with it, and I assume it's connected to the gravity vents?

I also wanted to ask about the durability of your BIS Ultima; my current spec house fireplace seems very lightweight in construction, the metal is already badly warped and the refractory is cracked, and that's just after a few fires and not 24/7 use. Obviously a Phase II model like yours or the Brentwood is in a whole different league, but will it also be a step up as far as sturdiness (given normal care of course)?

Thanks!

 

[Carl]

We live in Northern Lower Michigan and have heated our 1000 sq feet house with 1.5 firebox size almost totally, depending on how lazy I get. That size should do you a fine job where you live. These new stoves can't even be compared to a fireplace or even an insert.

 

[DiscoInferno]

I use a BIS Ultima (the Brentwood is a rebadged Ultima) for near 100% heating of a 2000 sqft house with not the greatest insulation. I'm in the DC area, which means average winter highs in the 30's and 40's and lows in the 20's, dropping to the single digits now and again. I burn from about late october into april. If I was to do it again I might get something slightly larger, but I think you'll find that 2cf is plenty for your application. Actual firebox dimensions: about 18" wide at the back, maybe 21-22" wide at the front (the box tapers), about 16" deep, and 11-12" tall.

This is great news to hear...much appreciated! If you are heating your home well where you are, then it will definitely work out here on the west coast. Are you using a blower with it, and I assume it's connected to the gravity vents?

I also wanted to ask about the durability of your BIS Ultima; my current spec house fireplace seems very lightweight in construction, the metal is already badly warped and the refractory is cracked, and that's just after a few fires and not 24/7 use. Obviously a Phase II model like yours or the Brentwood is in a whole different league, but will it also be a step up as far as sturdiness (given normal care of course)?

Thanks!

I have one or two blowers in the base (depending on which of my collection has been most recently cleaned and oiled), blowing out the top louvers. I did not get the gravity vents; as it was a retrofit it would have been a pain to install them, and they would have probably overheated the one bedroom they would have gone into. I did install a duct from the side through a blower to my main air plenum (the central air kit) but it doesn't pull enough heat to distribute it that way. In the end I just let the blowers and natural convection carry the hot air from the fireplace to the rest of the house. It works surprisingly well; I rarely have more than a 5 degree differential throughout the house even though the fireplace is almost in a corner of the house.

Durability: I just finished my second year of full-time burning in the Ultima. Probably put about 9 cords through it total. The firebox is steel, certainly thicker than a builders box prefab fireplace, and no sign of any warping. It's basically just a rectangular wood stove sitting on a frame inside a insulated outer metal box. The burn tubes don't seem to be sagging. (And I did get it pretty hot more than once.) The main signs of wear I see are the baffle, which is that white fiberboard insulation and is very easy to nick/gouge/dent, and the refractories. After the first year the refractories looked new. This year I can see definite erosion of both side faces and the back. Can't tell if it's just cosmetic or not until I pull them out. Unfortunately I suspect these are somewhat expensive, as they are custom jobs. I'm going to coat them with furnace cement this summer to try to mitigate any further damage. I haven't done my spring/summer cleaning yet, so I suppose I might find something above the baffle. On the whole, it seems to be a solid unit.

 

[PeteD]

I have one or two blowers in the base (depending on which of my collection has been most recently cleaned and oiled), blowing out the top louvers. I did not get the gravity vents; as it was a retrofit it would have been a pain to install them, and they would have probably overheated the one bedroom they would have gone into. I did install a duct from the side through a blower to my main air plenum (the central air kit) but it doesn't pull enough heat to distribute it that way. In the end I just let the blowers and natural convection carry the hot air from the fireplace to the rest of the house. It works surprisingly well; I rarely have more than a 5 degree differential throughout the house even though the fireplace is almost in a corner of the house.

Sorry to dredge up an older thread here. I am considering the Lennox Brentwood/BIS Ultima or Lennox Villa Vista/BIS Panorama. I have FHW heat, so I do not have air ducts. Since I am retrofitting, I am leaning towards not doing the gravity kit.

How does the natural convection on your unit perform?

I am trying to decide if I need some sort of blower with these units and how to set them up. I was leaning toward having the upper grate and using convection (no gravity kits or blowers).

My floor plan is very open with standard ceiling heights.

Thanks,
Pete

 

[DiscoInferno]

I would strongly suggest a blower, especially if you plan to use the unit for substantial heating. Without the blower the airflow is quite reduced vs. natural convection; the top part of the fireplace gets a lot hotter and I'm sure a lot less heat is extracted. Best thing to do is to install a blower with a speed control; you can set it low (and quiet) when you're in the room, and on high when you aren't. On the Ultima the blower(s) go in the back behind the bottom louver, although I never figured out the "official" mounting setup. I just set them back there. The wiring can come in through a side knockout, or you could run it out the louver if neccessary.

 

[PeteD]

Thanks for the quick reply. I am not sure from their manuals if the blower can be used to blow air out of the upper grate in the face plate. That would be ideal for me. I suppose I could retrofit something, if their design is not like this.

The manuals give me the impression their blower is to force air through the force air heat ducts.

Pete

 

[DiscoInferno]

The upper and lower louvers both open into the same air cavity that the firebox sits in. If you put a blower on the bottom in the back it pulls air through the bottom louver and under the firebox and then blows it up behind and then over the firebox, and out the top louver. That's the most standard setup for both ZC fireplaces and inserts. Many of the ZC fireplaces also have side/top knockouts for remote ducting, but there (for the BIS models anyway) the blower is on the remote end. A blower at the bottom of the unit won't push much air out the knockouts since the top louver opening is so much bigger.

For the Ultima, Security sold two different blowers; the cheaper one goes underneath, the larger, more expensive one is for a remote duct.