Insert vs fireplace firebox size sanity check

[ToastyRanch]

Hello everyone and many thanks for such an informative and friendly forum. I’ve been immersing myself in the details of wood burning this last week and have gotten to the point where I need a sanity check. Hoping I can provide all of the relevant information so that y’all can quickly assist me.

Our ranch house is from 1961 and has a very low pitched rubber roof. Roughly 1700 sq feet and a slightly finished basement under most of that area. We have a 13 foot (from the bottom of the fireplace hearth) centrally located masonry chimney with 2 flues. They are cleaned and we’ve been shown that they both are in need of soonish repairs and lining. One is for our oil boiler which was replaced by the seller. 85% efficient oil-forced hot water baseboards and has 3 heating zones, plus fourth is our indirect heating hot water tank. Boiler has MBH (thousands of BTU per hour) of 145. The other flue is currently used for a fireplace, with glass doors from at least 30 years ago.

We’re newish to the house: we moved in about a month ago. However, we have owned it for about a year prior to that, while we got work done on it and also we concurrently were fixing up the old house for a good profit. So some idea about how it functions in deep winter but not precise knowledge. Our basement is insulated enough and our house generally tight enough that we don’t need milder shoulder season heat because of standby water heater excess heat traveling up from the basement boiler: combined with warmth from very clever solar gain optimization engineering.

Our house is unusual in its construction. All of the ceilings are vaulted towards the top of the low roof pitch: the gable ends face front and back of the lot. This pitch allows for a much stronger convection current to circulate the heat in the rooms and heat doesn’t get stuck in the ceiling. Also nearly all of the walls are double studded supporting walls with thick plaster rather than typical drywall. The result is that heat doesn’t transfer much from zone to zone if doors are shut.

Anyway, we’re looking to either put in an insert or a stove. We’ve been told that given our construction details we’re going to get roughly the same benefit from either a 2.6 cubic foot firebox in a Regency Hi500/Ci2700 insert as we would from a Hearthstone Craftsbury stove with a 1.32 foot firebox. Is this possible? We’re told we’d be toastier than the insert with a Hearthstone Shelburne with a 2.0 cubic foot firebox and potentially even too hot in mildish weather. We’ve got relentless coastal wind, so it’s basically never completely mild by the time we’re deciding to have any type of heating engaged.

I’m trying to wrap my head around the insert being approximately somewhere between twice and 70% more expensive to run. The insert would look better with our architecture. And a stove would be slightly more dangerous as a tripping hazard: given that it’s got a passageway from living to the dining room 2 feet away on both sides of the where the stove would be located. And there’s a passage from the kitchen on one side and from front doorway on the other about 7 feet away on the direct diagonal path.

Have I understood the difference between these options correctly? We could afford the extra money for more wood for the insert. However, we really would prefer to do less work carrying wood around and, of course, prefer generating less pollution.

And yes, I’ve learned any wood we buy right now is likely to be greener than advertised. I’m hoping we could tweak a good temperature inside the firebox from a combination of bio blocks plus greenish wood, if it’s necessary to do that in the beginning. If it’s a terrible idea, please let me know. And then we’ll wait either to purchase or to try-out the stove/insert until the time when my moisture meter gives me proper wood readings. And yes, I know that bio blocks void the warranty…. Many thanks in advance for your attention.

 

[ToastyRanch]

Sorry I meant to title this thread “Insert vs Wood Stove firebox size sanity check.”

 

[EbS-P]

I think you are missing the point that the amount of heat depends on how wood you burn. You will be reloading the smaller firebox more often. Bigger gives longer burns. But bigger stoves can burn more more more quickly resulting in a greater heat output. Don’t get anything under 2.0 cu ft if you want heat the whole space.

As for stove vs insert. I have both. Lots of experience with the stove. In a the fireplace only a couple partial loads in the insert. I went stove for looks. It needs a blower behind it. I went for the insert because it was the best value. Stove is undersized for the coldest times of year. Insert could almost heat the whole house if run hard I think.

How high is the opening that will determine if 2 cu ft stove will fit. Less than 33” is not to many options.

 

[ToastyRanch]

I think you are missing the point that the amount of heat depends on how wood you burn. You will be reloading the smaller firebox more often. Bigger gives longer burns. But bigger stoves can burn more more more quickly resulting in a greater heat output. Don’t get anything under 2.0 cu ft if you want heat the whole space.

As for stove vs insert. I have both. Lots of experience with the stove. In a the fireplace only a couple partial loads in the insert. I went stove for looks. It needs a blower behind it. I went for the insert because it was the best value. Stove is undersized for the coldest times of year. Insert could almost heat the whole house if run hard I think.

How high is the opening that will determine if 2 cu ft stove will fit. Less than 33” is not to many options.

Clarifications: our fireplace opening is on the larger side, so I know from the specs and the dealer that a 2 cu ft insert will fit. We would need to build a new hearth for any insert: as we have a puny 8 inch hearth and it’s 9 inches off of the floor at its top surface. There’s no way we can fit any sort of freestanding stove whatsoever inside of our fireplace opening…. On the other hand, we could fit any size stove in front of the fireplace: we have 20 feet of depth. Unfortunately however, any stove size of any width would be nearly as underfoot as any other, in terms of being on the diagonal path from the kitchen or dining room or front door to any spot where we could put a sofa.

As a result, my question was about how the perceived difference in heat feels from an insert vs wood stove wrt to how the heat readily circulates in the room. The dealer said that with the stove’s radiation in all directions, the air is going to feel warmer in the center of the house than with a fireplace insert per BTU burned. Therefore, he claimed that with a stove we could manage to make the center effectively and evenly warm for some hours (with fewer BTUs) before the heat produced had a chance to escape through the roof. Whereas, he claimed that even with a fireplace fan engaged, the heat by an insert would stick closer to the chimney and get lost up to the roof before it got a chance to warm us up.

Put another way, we have an unusual heat loss pattern and I’m trying to figure out how best to offset it…. I don’t think we have any hope of heating up the bedrooms from the middle of the house: all of the ceilings are angled towards the center of the house. At least that’s what we’ve found to be true with the heat from the hot water baseboards, no matter what we do. With the bedrooms located 3 on one side and one on the other, if the doors are sealed, then heat doesn’t move from zone to zone. If the doors are open, all of the heat gathers in the middle of the house.

 

[ToastyRanch]

Clarifications: our fireplace opening is on the larger side, so I know from the specs and the dealer that a 2 cu ft insert will fit. We would need to build a new hearth for any insert: as we have a puny 8 inch hearth and it’s 9 inches off of the floor at its top surface. There’s no way we can fit any sort of freestanding stove whatsoever inside of our fireplace opening…. On the other hand, we could fit any size stove in front of the fireplace: we have 20 feet of depth. Unfortunately however, any stove size of any width would be nearly as underfoot as any other, in terms of being on the diagonal path from the kitchen or dining room or front door to any spot where we could put a sofa.

As a result, my question was about how the perceived difference in heat feels from an insert vs wood stove wrt to how the heat readily circulates in the room. The dealer said that with the stove’s radiation in all directions, the air is going to feel warmer in the center of the house than with a fireplace insert per BTU burned. Therefore, he claimed that with a stove we could manage to make the center effectively and evenly warm for some hours (with fewer BTUs) before the heat produced had a chance to escape through the roof. Whereas, he claimed that even with a fireplace fan engaged, the heat by an insert would stick closer to the chimney and get lost up to the roof before it got a chance to warm us up.

Put another way, we have an unusual heat loss pattern and I’m trying to figure out how best to offset it…. I don’t think we have any hope of heating up the bedrooms from the middle of the house: all of the ceilings are angled towards the center of the house. At least that’s what we’ve found to be true with the heat from the hot water baseboards, no matter what we do. With the bedrooms located 3 on one side and one on the other, if the doors are sealed, then heat doesn’t move from zone to zone. If the doors are open, all of the heat gathers in the middle of the house.

I meant to say that the dealer said that yes we could get a sufficiently large insert to fit which could heat the whole room, but that it would take more btus to have the same effect —at seated person height— than a stove, due to the room’s configuration.

 

[kennyp2339]

you'll be much happier the bigger you can go, 2cu ft to 2.5cu ft is about average if your planning on burning a lot or want over night burns 6-8hrs. The smaller the fire box the shorter the burn times (less wood) also factor in the ash build up (takes away space).

, I know that bio blocks void the warranty

Not true, bio bricks or compressed wood logs are great in wood stoves and inserts, its the fake logs that have wax binders / burning aids that will void a stoves warranty.
I also like the argument that burning wood correctly in an epa approved stove is essentially much cleaner / sustaining then burning fossil fuels, to me its almost a net zero pollutant if you figure the gases the wood releases when it breaks down naturally or by forest fire.

Edit - my parents have a 3,000 sqft colonial built in the mid 80's, there insert does great for heating 2/3 of the house during regular winter conditions (mid teens - mid 20's)
I think the stove dealer is trying to make the sale of convective heat vs radiant heat, inserts are more convective since its a stove within a jacket and 90% blower dependent vs a free standing stove that is more radiant, most still have a blower but you get more warmth glowing feel because the radiant is heating the objects and not the air.

 

[ToastyRanch]

you'll be much happier the bigger you can go, 2cu ft to 2.5cu ft is about average if your planning on burning a lot or want over night burns 6-8hrs. The smaller the fire box the shorter the burn times (less wood) also factor in the ash build up (takes away space).

Not true, bio bricks or compressed wood logs are great in wood stoves and inserts, its the fake logs that have wax binders / burning aids that will void a stoves warranty.
I also like the argument that burning wood correctly in an epa approved stove is essentially much cleaner / sustaining then burning fossil fuels, to me its almost a net zero pollutant if you figure the gases the wood releases when it breaks down naturally or by forest fire.

Edit - my parents have a 3,000 sqft colonial built in the mid 80's, there insert does great for heating 2/3 of the house during regular winter conditions (mid teens - mid 20's)
I think the stove dealer is trying to make the sale of convective heat vs radiant heat, inserts are more convective since its a stove within a jacket and 90% blower dependent vs a free standing stove that is more radiant, most still have a blower but you get more warmth glowing feel because the radiant is heating the objects and not the air.

Thanks. Lots of helpful thoughts. I haven’t been able to determine whether overnight burns will do any good in this house in terms of warming the bedrooms. Thus, besides mitigation of the bother of starting from a cold stove in the morning, I can’t figure out if we’d achieve any benefit.

Likewise, I can’t tell if the firebox will be close enough to the kitchen to help keep it warm at all. Certainly a fireplace fire doesn’t reach the kitchen. It does heat up the masonry enough to help warm the dining room located behind the fireplace. Which is why I’m very surprised that an insert doesn’t utilize the masonry effectively and is 90% convection. I’d think that the masonry turns into a better radiant heater than a stove would be, once the entire thermal mass is warm.

I hadn’t thought about ash volume decreasing usable space, that’s a good thought. That makes the Craftsbury 1.32 likely untenable, especially since I’ve been reading on this forum it’s advertising is already a bit exaggerated.

While I’ve read some of these insert descriptions in detail, in practice, it’s really hard for me to imagine an insert capable of heating 2,000 square feet effectively. I previously had a condo townhouse under 2,000 sqft with a gas fireplace which took many hours to heat up a 12*12 living room. Heating the entire townhouse wasn’t remotely possible during our power outages.

 

[EbS-P]

What are the fireplace opening dimensions?
Interior chimney is a plus for stove. How about splitting the difference with an insert that projects out of the fireplace more. Just for reference my opening is 29hx 42w and 19 deep at the top and 24 deep at the bottom. There aren’t a great deal of stoves that are that short but there are some. I use a blower 50-75% of the time with the stove.

With 9 inches of hearth height you might be ok with just ember protection on the floor with an insert. But that varies by model. I’d be picking something that did not need a a hearth redo unless that’s on your list of projects you wanted to todo. White is my stove black one is an insert with no surround still deciding if I want to install it.

Inserts can get bigger fire boxes in a fireplace than stoves.

 

[kennyp2339]

You can not judge what a fireplace does vs a insert or stove, a fireplace is like 10% efficient, you actually lose heat then gain heat with fireplaces since its a big opening with unregulated room air being pulled into the fire and sending it up the chimney, that air needs to be replaced, usually make up air comes through any area's that have poor air sealing like doors, windows, sill plates ect... and since its winter out that make up air is cold, therefore it cools that house off.

 

[john26]

it’s really hard for me to imagine an insert capable of heating 2,000 square feet effectively

I easily heat 1760 square feet with a 2 cubic foot insert. I have 2 on opposite ends of the house keeps the first floor very warm the hearth room has a half vault ceiling 9' on one side to 16' on the other. The first floor is a semi open floor plan the upstairs bedrooms are the challenge. My parents use a 1.3 cuft insert in a 2000 sqft ranch open floor plan, family room and kitchen stay warm rest of the house is chilly and the stove is always burned on high and the gas furnace cycle periodically.

 

[ToastyRanch]

What are the fireplace opening dimensions?
Interior chimney is a plus for stove. How about splitting the difference with an insert that projects out of the fireplace more. Just for reference my opening is 29hx 42w and 19 deep at the top and 24 deep at the bottom. There aren’t a great deal of stoves that are that short but there are some. I use a blower 50-75% of the time with the stove.

With 9 inches of hearth height you might be ok with just ember protection on the floor with an insert. But that varies by model. I’d be picking something that did not need a a hearth redo unless that’s on your list of projects you wanted to todo. White is my stove black one is an insert with no surround still deciding if I want to install it.

Inserts can get bigger fire boxes in a fireplace than stoves.

View attachment 285522 View attachment 285523

I’m going to make my first attempt to attach a photo of the current setup which will hopefully clarify things a bit. The blue tape shows the dealer proposed insert: window size, surround plate size, and effectively the new needed hearth size. We could probably put a thicker R-value pad to cover the blue boxed area on the floor, but it would really look bad imho. … The inner purple area shows where a typical wood stove would sit if we keep the existing hearth. The outer purple area would be where the ember protection pad would go in such a scenario. I actually have a plan for how to make it look reasonably good if we do that. However, at the moment I’m trying to figure out if a stove projecting into the room is going to be more beneficial in terms of better heat circulation and therefore less wood burned (since it’s smack dab in the middle of a vaulted ranch home and there’s not even an attic upstairs).

Does it make more sense now? I’ll get back to you later with dimensions etc… Also you have a VC right? Which one? Is it finicky? My husband has grown up with an old old VC and we’re trying to figure out if we could handle one of the newer models. Top loading and removable ash pans sounds enticing.

 

[shortys7777]

Live in RI but not near the coast so you probably have more wind than me. I have a Enviro insert and my ranch is 1460sq ft. It heats the entire place and I get over night burns loading it up with dry wood. If you go with an insert you will only likely need a hearth pad in front. If the fire place is huge you could put a stove in it. I really wanted a free standing stove but my living room was to small for clearances. Very happy with the insert now and it has a nice big glass viewing area (wife loves). When we are watching a movie we do lower the fan on it then turn it back up when we go to bed or leave for work. Make sure you put an insulated liner in no matter what the stove shop or installer recommends. I called 1 in RI and 2 in MA and all shops said you don't need that. Luckily I did a lot of reading on this site first.

 

[EbS-P]

I’m going to make my first attempt to attach a photo of the current setup which will hopefully clarify things a bit. The blue tape shows the dealer proposed insert: window size, surround plate size, and effectively the new needed hearth size. We could probably put a thicker R-value pad to cover the blue boxed area on the floor, but it would really look bad imho. … The inner purple area shows where a typical wood stove would sit if we keep the existing hearth. The outer purple area would be where the ember protection pad would go in such a scenario. I actually have a plan for how to make it look reasonably good if we do that. However, at the moment I’m trying to figure out if a stove projecting into the room is going to be more beneficial in terms of better heat circulation and therefore less wood burned (since it’s smack dab in the middle of a vaulted ranch home and there’s not even an attic upstairs).

Does it make more sense now? I’ll get back to you later with dimensions etc… Also you have a VC right? Which one? Is it finicky? My husband has grown up with an old old VC and we’re trying to figure out if we could handle one of the newer models. Top loading and removable ash pans sounds enticing.

Yes it makes much more sense. I have a Jotul F400 they don’t make them anymore. I really like it. I wouldn’t do a stove for your layout . You have to walk around for 6-8 months a year when it’s cold. I think the floating hearth is neat. I’d embrace the modern look and go for a flush insert that only need ember floor protection. Helping Convection with a very slow ceiling fan set to blow up I think distributes heat better than radiant. I can get a nice loop going down the hallway to the left. Plus you can really get a hot fire going and not get roasted by the radiant heat.

I’m being in the south wanting a wood heat my radiant stove works well. The masonry absorbs the heat. Of a hot fire. Central chimney keeps the heat in the house. I don’t really need max heat often. Once every 5 years. Given then your layout I think an insert makes the most sense.

We can walk all the way around the chimney looks like yours is almost the same. Have a stove stick out would just really be awkward in my space.

 

[ToastyRanch]

You can not judge what a fireplace does vs a insert or stove, a fireplace is like 10% efficient, you actually lose heat then gain heat with fireplaces since its a big opening with unregulated room air being pulled into the fire and sending it up the chimney, that air needs to be replaced, usually make up air comes through any area's that have poor air sealing like doors, windows, sill plates ect... and since its winter out that make up air is cold, therefore it cools that house off.

Using words rather than equations to describe physics concepts is always kind of imprecise. The question that I was trying to pose goes something like this:

I could heat a kettle of water to boiling on an induction burner, an electric stove, a gas stove, or even a wood cook stove. If I’m trying to use the least number of BTUs to get the job done, I’d use the induction burner, because the energy is transferred directly to the water. Convection currents would carry a bit of heat into the surrounding room, but if you’re 10 feet away and the kettle is boiling for 10 minutes, you’ll never perceive any increase in heat, even if it’s actually a tenth of a degree warmer, or something like that.

On the other extreme, my experience with natural gas and propane stoves is that by the time you’ve got a pot boiling, the entire room is noticeably warmer. That’s because more heat is getting convected directly off of the flame instead of radiating into the water. People generally compensate for that heat diffusion by cranking up the BTUs on a gas stove to a high setting on a burner, in order to boil water more quickly.

So, the dealer was saying that the typical use case he sees is that people generally prefer a high BTU insert to a lesser one: because a lot more useful heat will go up into the masonry. In other words, I think he’s saying that an insert blower can’t substantially and quickly offset the heat conduction happening into the masonry, without it being an untenable large and loud blower to install in a fireplace. Meaning that in practical terms, no one wants the magnitude of blower which goes on a forced air ducted system to be installed to sit inside your fireplace.

So getting back to what you were saying, I’m trying to determine whether an insert works more like an induction burner, relative to the performance of an equivalent BTU wood stove: great and efficient if the goal is boiling water directly above it, not so great for warming up a room, relative to rate of heat loss occurring in a typically insulated room. Thus, would it be even worse for us, as we have more surface area on which to lose heat relative to that of a typical room?

 

[ToastyRanch]

I easily heat 1760 square feet with a 2 cubic foot insert. I have 2 on opposite ends of the house keeps the first floor very warm the hearth room has a half vault ceiling 9' on one side to 16' on the other. The first floor is a semi open floor plan the upstairs bedrooms are the challenge. My parents use a 1.3 cuft insert in a 2000 sqft ranch open floor plan, family room and kitchen stay warm rest of the house is chilly and the stove is always burned on high and the gas furnace cycle periodically.

Trying to make sure I understand…. You have 2 inserts (each of approximately 2 cubic feet in volume) positioned at each narrow end of an approximately rectangular house where the ground floor area is 1760, with additional square footage above some or all of the ground floor? Do you have any ductwork or use any room fans?

 

[john26]

Trying to make sure I understand…. You have 2 inserts (each of approximately 2 cubic feet in volume) positioned at each narrow end of an approximately rectangular house where the ground floor area is 1760, with additional square footage above some or all of the ground floor? Do you have any ductwork or use any room fans

I have 2 inserts yes at the narrow ends of the house. I only burn 1 at time I leave all doors open on the first floor and run ceiling fans only all registers are closed are closed for central heat. Central heat is used for upstairs bedrooms, top of stairs gets warm from the insert but not the bedrooms, Upstairs is 1300 sqft.

 

[ToastyRanch]

What are the fireplace opening dimensions?
Interior chimney is a plus for stove. How about splitting the difference with an insert that projects out of the fireplace more. Just for reference my opening is 29hx 42w and 19 deep at the top and 24 deep at the bottom. There aren’t a great deal of stoves that are that short but there are some. I use a blower 50-75% of the time with the stove.

With 9 inches of hearth height you might be ok with just ember protection on the floor with an insert. But that varies by model. I’d be picking something that did not need a a hearth redo unless that’s on your list of projects you wanted to todo. White is my stove black one is an insert with no surround still deciding if I want to install it.

Inserts can get bigger fire boxes in a fireplace than stoves.

View attachment 285522 View attachment 285523

Dimensions of fireplace are:
*** 29 1/2 high in front but curves down to 23 inches at roughly top of back vertical plane
*** 32 front width, 24 back width
*** Depth 23 at the bottom and stays 23 until it hits the 23 inch height: thus back of opening is vaguely square but correctly accounting for the back slope makes me nervous

 

[ToastyRanch]

Yes it makes much more sense. I have a Jotul F400 they don’t make them anymore. I really like it. I wouldn’t do a stove for your layout . You have to walk around for 6-8 months a year when it’s cold. I think the floating hearth is neat. I’d embrace the modern look and go for a flush insert that only need ember floor protection. Helping Convection with a very slow ceiling fan set to blow up I think distributes heat better than radiant. I can get a nice loop going down the hallway to the left. Plus you can really get a hot fire going and not get roasted by the radiant heat.

I’m being in the south wanting a wood heat my radiant stove works well. The masonry absorbs the heat. Of a hot fire. Central chimney keeps the heat in the house. I don’t really need max heat often. Once every 5 years. Given then your layout I think an insert makes the most sense.

We can walk all the way around the chimney looks like yours is almost the same. Have a stove stick out would just really be awkward in my space.

View attachment 285535

Thanks. Yes basic concept of how the masonry fits into the space is the same. Everything is the same configuration but each third (hallway chimney hallway) is narrower I think. Only 13’7” in total. We’ve got 21’1” of depth in front of the fireplace. That’s why the architect’s or original owner’s choice of shallow depth hearth is puzzling. Frankly it’s also been a bit of an unpleasant surprise to me in terms of accommodation for new code hearth requirements on some models. So I’m going to think more about actually embracing the floating aspect and seeing if I can get the clearance to work with ember protection both visually and technically.

Do you have drywall on the back face? Does it get hot?

 

[ToastyRanch]

Live in RI but not near the coast so you probably have more wind than me. I have a Enviro insert and my ranch is 1460sq ft. It heats the entire place and I get over night burns loading it up with dry wood. If you go with an insert you will only likely need a hearth pad in front. If the fire place is huge you could put a stove in it. I really wanted a free standing stove but my living room was to small for clearances. Very happy with the insert now and it has a nice big glass viewing area (wife loves). When we are watching a movie we do lower the fan on it then turn it back up when we go to bed or leave for work. Make sure you put an insulated liner in no matter what the stove shop or installer recommends. I called 1 in RI and 2 in MA and all shops said you don't need that. Luckily I did a lot of reading on this site first.

I had seen Enviro mentioned on this site but hadn’t realized that it was a brand name. I checked online and there’s a store selling them in North Reading MA: probably close enough that we’re in their install radius. I will check the clearances and chimney height requirements and see if something works. I also realized yesterday from looking around that we’re definitely going to prefer a two or more speed fan if we get the insert.

I definitely know what you mean about the common tendency to be penny wise and pound foolish around this neck of the woods. We were planning on an insulated liner because our oil flue is so close we need to minimize weird crossover drafting possibilities.

 

[EbS-P]

Thanks. Yes basic concept of how the masonry fits into the space is the same. Everything is the same configuration but each third (hallway chimney hallway) is narrower I think. Only 13’7” in total. We’ve got 21’1” of depth in front of the fireplace. That’s why the architect’s or original owner’s choice of shallow depth hearth is puzzling. Frankly it’s also been a bit of an unpleasant surprise to me in terms of accommodation for new code hearth requirements on some models. So I’m going to think more about actually embracing the floating aspect and seeing if I can get the clearance to work with ember protection both visually and technically.

Do you have drywall on the back face? Does it get hot?

Yes it’s a stud wall with framing touching brick and Sheetrock, which we found out after we got the stove with an insulated liner.

Get an insulated liner.

With no block off plate it got warm85-90F. Ran that way two years. Last year made a block off plate. Lower temps some this year I insulated and its just a couple degrees warmer than the ceiling but I have not burned all day day just lighting the stove and quick reload.

Ember protection could be as easy as a sheet of metal on top of wood. Tile on top of plywood on wood floor. To removing wood floor and subfloor for a flush ember protection. Keep shopping and asking questions.

Evan

 

[john26]

I had seen Enviro mentioned on this site but hadn’t realized that it was a brand name.

I don't think they sell wood burning appliances anymore just pellet and gas.

 

[shortys7777]

I don't think they sell wood burning appliances anymore just pellet and gas.

Yes, I believe they stopped wood burning products 2 years ago or something. To bad they are some nice looking stoves.