Considfering an insert

[stilesec]

Hi all. I have a couple of questions I hope you guys can answer. I have a very old cast iron woodstove that I inherited 2 years ago. It is vented in the back so I put it in my basement and vented it out the existing fireplace. I had to remove the fireplace flu and I ran 8" black stove pipe the length of the chimney. The 8" pipe connects to the 6" opening on the stove. The chimney is about 25' tall.

Anyway this thing is a monster. It has a fire box that is 3' high, 25" deep, and about 18" wide. It heats my whole house (1700sqft ranch with 1700 sqft finished basement) in Northeast Ohio. When I say heat I mean the immediate area is 85 degrees and the surrounding rooms stay around 75 degrees.

Here are the problems. The thing is ugly as sin. The stove can't sit on the hearth so it sits about 5' out into the middle of the room. The draft is horrible and the thing smokes like crazy when I open the door - probably because there is a 4-5' horizontal run before it enters the chimney. Finally, this stove gets incredibly hot and I have a new baby. My wife doesn't like the burning hot stove in the middle of the room.

I would like to replace this stove with an insert, but it would need to continue to heat a large portion of the house. I am considering the Summit insert. Here are my questions.

Will an insert come anywhere close to heating the home like this big woodstove?
Will the 8" steel stove pipe be adequate for a few more years or should that be converted to a 6" ss pipe?
Does the pipe need to be insulated?
Any ideas where I can get a Summit stove in Ohio so I don't have to pay large shipping costs?

Thanks in advance everybody.

Eric

 

[TMonter]

I'd look at several different inserts to see what you like, but the Summit is a good one. I suggest looking at Kuma and Quadrafire as well. Kuma has a monster insert one of my neighbors swears by.

Some other questions:

Is your chimney masonry? If so, what size?
How old is the current wood stove? Was it a non EPA stove (I would tend to think it is)
Is there power available near the hearth for a blower?

I believe in the best interest of safety, a chimney reline with a stainless liner would be your best bet, but it would also be more expensive.

I can tell you I have a Quadrafire 3100I and I heat approximately 1300-1400 square feet of our home with my insert. My home stays at a comfortable 78 degrees with the stove at a low steady burn. On the coldest days (-10 to 0 F) it keeps the house at 75, I just have to turn it up some.

 

[sgcsalsero]

Hi all. I have a couple of questions I hope you guys can answer. I have a very old cast iron woodstove that I inherited 2 years ago. It is vented in the back so I put it in my basement and vented it out the existing fireplace. I had to remove the fireplace flu and I ran 8" black stove pipe the length of the chimney. The 8" pipe connects to the 6" opening on the stove. The chimney is about 25' tall.

Anyway this thing is a monster. It has a fire box that is 3' high, 25" deep, and about 18" wide. It heats my whole house (1700sqft ranch with 1700 sqft finished basement) in Northeast Ohio. When I say heat I mean the immediate area is 85 degrees and the surrounding rooms stay around 75 degrees.

Here are the problems. The thing is ugly as sin. The stove can't sit on the hearth so it sits about 5' out into the middle of the room. The draft is horrible and the thing smokes like crazy when I open the door - probably because there is a 4-5' horizontal run before it enters the chimney. Finally, this stove gets incredibly hot and I have a new baby. My wife doesn't like the burning hot stove in the middle of the room.

I would like to replace this stove with an insert, but it would need to continue to heat a large portion of the house. I am considering the Summit insert. Here are my questions.

Will an insert come anywhere close to heating the home like this big woodstove?
Will the 8" steel stove pipe be adequate for a few more years or should that be converted to a 6" ss pipe?
Does the pipe need to be insulated?
Any ideas where I can get a Summit stove in Ohio so I don't have to pay large shipping costs?

Thanks in advance everybody.

Eric

Hey Eric, welcome to the forum, I'm in NE Ohio as well, I have a contact or two in case you are interested in local installers (I'm just an avg. taxpaying homeowner, not in the biz, so I'll send a separate PM if you are interested). If you are up for looking at a Hampton insert (see also the Hampton post 2day from sparrowhawk) send me a PM and you can swing by to take a looksee at my setup. Dimensions are an important consideration for an insert, what will your fireplace allow, pictures for the pros here of your current setup would be a -big plus-, check out the picture forum 'sticky' for instructs for posting pics

 

[Hogwildz]

Hi all. I have a couple of questions I hope you guys can answer. I have a very old cast iron woodstove that I inherited 2 years ago. It is vented in the back so I put it in my basement and vented it out the existing fireplace. I had to remove the fireplace flu and I ran 8" black stove pipe the length of the chimney. The 8" pipe connects to the 6" opening on the stove. The chimney is about 25' tall.

Anyway this thing is a monster. It has a fire box that is 3' high, 25" deep, and about 18" wide. It heats my whole house (1700sqft ranch with 1700 sqft finished basement) in Northeast Ohio. When I say heat I mean the immediate area is 85 degrees and the surrounding rooms stay around 75 degrees.

Here are the problems. The thing is ugly as sin. The stove can't sit on the hearth so it sits about 5' out into the middle of the room. The draft is horrible and the thing smokes like crazy when I open the door - probably because there is a 4-5' horizontal run before it enters the chimney. Finally, this stove gets incredibly hot and I have a new baby. My wife doesn't like the burning hot stove in the middle of the room.

I would like to replace this stove with an insert, but it would need to continue to heat a large portion of the house. I am considering the Summit insert. Here are my questions.

Will an insert come anywhere close to heating the home like this big woodstove?
I am not familiar with your stove. My Summit insert heats my home of roughly 2500 sf 2 story with open living room & loft. I have an additional 750 sf addition thats incomplete, which I will be getting another stove for that area. Summit comes with a blower, and most but not all others its an extra paid option.

Will the 8" steel stove pipe be adequate for a few more years or should that be converted to a 6" ss pipe?
You may be able to use an adapter from the 8" down to 6", I personally relined my chimney with 6" s.s., fles at the bottom and rigid insulated double wall the rest of the way.

Does the pipe need to be insulated?
If the chimney is on an outside wall, I would if it was me. Mines now on an inside wall since addition is added on at that wall. Though this is another reason I went with double wall insulated rigid. Already insulated built into the double wall. But basically if your chimney is on an inside wall, no its not a must to have insulated. I believe you must have insulated to meet certain Ul code though for chimney fires. Better versed folks on here will add their knowledge. If you have the cash, why not go the extra mile, to me it was worth it.

Any ideas where I can get a Summit stove in Ohio so I don't have to pay large shipping costs?
Go to this link and put your info as in area, & town in, it will show you your local PE dealers. http://www.pacificenergy.net/lookup/dealerLookup.php

Thanks in advance everybody.
Good luck whatever you decide, you picked a great place with great folks for info & advice.


Eric

 

[wg_bent]

For big inserts, look at the Summit, Osburn 2400, Country stoves, Quadrafire, and Lopi. They all make good ones, and pardon me if I missed any others out there.

In my book, from the discussion here... I'd say go with the PE Summit. I've never heard a single complaint.

 

[elkimmeg]

I had to remove the fireplace flu and I ran 8” black stove pipe the length of the chimney

Will the 8” steel stove pipe be adequate for a few more years or should that be converted to a 6” ss pipe?

First of all that connector pipe has no business being used as a chimney or chimney liner since you removed a flue you also lost flue protection from chimney fires
If the clay flues were in good condition removing that flue now requires a an insulated UL 1777 aproved liner that flue removal cost you about $1000 more to do it code compliant
From the sounds of it you appear to be over firing that beast. no modern stove can compete with overfired beast for heat output. the largest insert I know is a Buck 91 if you feel you need that kind of heat. If you ever had a chimney fire with that single wall pipe without flue protection you would not be typing on this forum Man that is one dangereous situation you described
Welcome aboard and listen to the best possible safest advice anywhere in the world. I glad you found us before you had a disaster Sorry to come down on you but I want to make you aware just how dangereous your situation is.

 

[Gooserider]

Hi all. I have a couple of questions I hope you guys can answer. I have a very old cast iron woodstove that I inherited 2 years ago. It is vented in the back so I put it in my basement and vented it out the existing fireplace. I had to remove the fireplace flu and I ran 8" black stove pipe the length of the chimney. The 8" pipe connects to the 6" opening on the stove. The chimney is about 25' tall.

CODE VIOLATION ALERT!! MAJOR CODE VIOLATION ALERT Black stove pipe is ILLEGAL and unsafe to use as a chimney lining I hope you plan to fix this when you replace the stove. Was the earlier installation permitted and inspected? Does your homeowners insurance know about the stove? (Note that if your home burns because of an improper install, your insurance co. MAY get nasty about paying off. - I'm not a fan of playing "mother may I?" with the gov't on my own property, but in many places it is the current legal reality. - So much for "Land of the (not-so) Free"

That said, what is the existing chimney lining like? Tile? What size? Is it in good shape, or is it damaged? 25 feet should give you good draft, although basement installs tend to be on the inefficient side.

Anyway this thing is a monster. It has a fire box that is 3' high, 25" deep, and about 18" wide. It heats my whole house (1700sqft ranch with 1700 sqft finished basement) in Northeast Ohio. When I say heat I mean the immediate area is 85 degrees and the surrounding rooms stay around 75 degrees.

Sounds like an old cast iron pre-EPA smoke dragon, probably eats a lot of wood, and you may be overfiring the chit out of it as well - definitely a good idea to replace it.

Here are the problems. The thing is ugly as sin. The stove can't sit on the hearth so it sits about 5' out into the middle of the room. The draft is horrible and the thing smokes like crazy when I open the door - probably because there is a 4-5' horizontal run before it enters the chimney. Finally, this stove gets incredibly hot and I have a new baby. My wife doesn't like the burning hot stove in the middle of the room.

I hope that whatever it's sitting on (if not on the hearth) is appropriately fireproof - since you say it's in the basement, I assume it's on concrete (hopefully) I think the kid will learn (possibly the hard way) to be careful around the stove, but I understand the concern. There are many other parents that can point you at stove friendly baby-gates if you feel the need. Note that you may need to extend the hearth, many inserts may stick out of the fireplace a fair distance, and you will need a certain minimum clearance in front to be code compliant.

I would like to replace this stove with an insert, but it would need to continue to heat a large portion of the house. I am considering the Summit insert. Here are my questions.

Will an insert come anywhere close to heating the home like this big woodstove?

Insufficient data - how big is the house? How well is it insulated? What is the layout? What is the BTU rating of the old stove, how does it compare to the Summit? However if the old stove was doing the job, the Summit is likely to do so as well. There are bigger inserts, but Summit is in the heavyweight class, and has an excellent reputation You will probably want to get a blower on it, and definitely fix the chimney setup. The PE users on this forum are very enthusiastic supporters of the brand, and I see very few problems with them getting mentioned - However don't beleive them when they say the Whorehouse Red models burn better! ;-P

Will the 8" steel stove pipe be adequate for a few more years or should that be converted to a 6" ss pipe?

See above - that pipe isn't legal, or safe. You need to replace it with the proper lining, preferably the one that matches what the stove you are getting prefers - I believe that is 6" for the Summit, not certain. If so, this is good since 6" liners are considerably less expensive than 8".

Does the pipe need to be insulated?

Depends on your setup as to how BADLY it needs insulation, but my opinion is that insulation will never HURT you, and it is technically required to meet NFPA211 codes. The only reason I see NOT to use insulation is if your setup is such that it physically won't fit. Since you were able to get 8" stove pipe into the flue, you shouldn't have a problem with getting a 6" insulated liner into it. The insulation isn't cheap, but it isn't that much in terms of the total job.

Any ideas where I can get a Summit stove in Ohio so I don't have to pay large shipping costs?

Nope, I don't even know where I'd get one around where I live.... I'd see if Pacific Energy has a dealer finder on their website, or grab the nearest Yellow Pages and my fingertip hiking boots...

Thanks in advance everybody.

Eric

You're Welcome.... BTW, I want to emphasize, we may come down on you hard about doing your install the right / legal way, but that is because we care about your safety. However we aren't the "code police" (outside of Elk's hometown :lol: ) and won't drop any dimes on you... We just want to see a safe install that will keep you warm without burning your house down.

Gooserider

 

[BrotherBart]

Give us the measurements of the fireplace. I think I know a wood stove that, if it will fit, will toss a ton of heat into that place and make you want to throw rocks at that old sucker.

And it ain't made by Pacific Energy or Vermont Castings.

 

[Roospike]

Good advise on the stoves listed. The new modern EPA stoves of today run different then the stoves of yesteryear. With a good stove you should use less wood and get more heat. The best the old pre EPA stoves could do is around 50% efficient and the new modern stoves are around 74% efficient , that breaks down to a lot less smoke , longer burn times and less wood.

When you figure the cost of a wood stove and liner think of long term and divide it by 20-30 years to figure the cost then its more realistic and the nice thing about wood stoves are that they actually pay for themselves over a short time.

So find a good quality wood stove and let the fuel company pay for it. Your going to pay the money anyway so its better to go for a quality stove then to the fuel company .


The Pacific Energy Summits are a he(( of a stove and i think your on the right track , great quality , awesome performance and they also come with a lifetime warranty.

Do your install right the first time and just enjoy it for the many years to come.

 

[Roospike]

Give us the measurements of the fireplace. I think I know a wood stove that, if it will fit, will toss a ton of heat into that place and make you want to throw rocks at that old sucker.

And it ain't made by Pacific Energy or Vermont Castings.

Do they come in "BrotherBart brown" ? ******************* ;-P

 

[BrotherBart]

Give us the measurements of the fireplace. I think I know a wood stove that, if it will fit, will toss a ton of heat into that place and make you want to throw rocks at that old sucker.

And it ain't made by Pacific Energy or Vermont Castings.

Do they come in "BrotherBart brown" ? ******************* ;-P

For sixteen bucks and twenty minutes work they do. And that is Brothel Brown, by the way. More paint needed to paint it than the smaller firebox Summit.

Total cost if you stop into Sutherland Lumber in Casper, Wyoming today. $722 for the stove and $16 for the paint.

Like Mike said the most BTUs for the buck. And I'll be damned if he wasn't right. This sumbitch is awesome. Don't care if anybody else buys one. Got mine.

 

[stilesec]

Thanks for all of the input everybody. It sounds like an insert will work for me and it sounds like I should do it soon. There was an old Ashley that had pretty much the same setup when I moved in. I went ahead and replaced the liner with the same type that was in there. Looks like I made the wrong decision. Oh well - live and learn. No harm done... yet. The chimney is a masonry chimney. Probably something around 10" x 14". It's in good shape. The stove was free so it has done its job 100 times over. It's a Riteway. I painted it blue this fall to please the wife.

Thanks for the invite SGC. I may take you up on the offer. I live down by Malabar Farm and Mohican forest but I work out of Cleveland a couple days a week.

 

[Hogwildz]

First off, no offense, but that thing is hideous LOL. And seriously, the piping should NEVER run downhill. EVER Get rid of that thing, put a nice insert in and you'll be very glad you did. Thats just dangerous man.

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

i seriouly doubt you can overfire a stove that smokes when you open the stove and has a downhill chimney. If anything it needs replacing so the chimney will go uphill! a insert would be a nice fit.

 

[elkimmeg]

Like Mike said the most BTUs for the buck. And I’ll be damned if he wasn’t right. This sumbitch is awesome. Don’t care if anybody else buys one. Got mine.

Yeah and it burns cleaner 2x times cleaner and cost 3x less

Order me up a NC-13 I'll burn it I'll replace that Intrepid.

I agree most BTU's for the buck. USA made to boot.

Free tech support right here

Damn if this was not the worst winter work wise ever. I would have had one for $325..


It looks good enough without changing paint collors

Oh btw members going to the show ,remember that little cubicle stuck out back behind all the others Make sure you have a venders map to find PE

You know the low rent district next to the outhouse. Sorry I thought it was the outhouse , excuce me that's PE cubicle.

Hopefully they will man it this year. thats go down the main drag past Jotul then CFM Take a left past Regency Next right by Blaze king do you see Droit you went too far
ok next left past Englander. on the way by say hellow to Sotty Bob ,next lext near Osburn you getting warmer almost there they are behind Zogelzang way up there in the back.

Whew all that work to find them and no pahamplets left

 

[Hogwildz]

Like Mike said the most BTUs for the buck. And I’ll be damned if he wasn’t right. This sumbitch is awesome. Don’t care if anybody else buys one. Got mine.

Yeah and it burns cleaner 2x times cleaner and cost 3x less

Order me up a NC-13 I'll burn it I'll replace that Intrepid.

I agree most BTU's for the buck. USA made to boot.

Free tech support right here

Damn if this was not the worst winter work wise ever. I would have had one for $325..


It looks good enough without changing paint collors

Oh btw members going to the show ,remember that little cubicle stuck out back behind all the others Make sure you have a venders map to find PE

You know the low rent district next to the outhouse. Sorry I thought it was the outhouse , excuce me that's PE cubicle.

Hopefully they will man it this year. thats go down the main drag past Jotul then CFM Take a left past Regency Next right by Blaze king do you see Droit you went too far
ok next left past Englander. on the way by say hellow to Sotty Bob ,next lext near Osburn you getting warmer almost there they are behind Zogelzang way up there in the back.

Whew all that work to find them and no pahamplets left

Found mine fine, and don't need no map

 

[Roospike]

Dont forget about Vermont Castings , there booth is set up in the blacksmith shop next to the forges and pottery kilns . :lol: Just look for the bright red glow , you'll find them.

 

[Roospike]

Show you wife this thread ........

Tell her with a nice Pacific Energy Summit you will go from this to this. ;-)

 

[elkimmeg]

Dont forget about Vermont Castings , there booth is set up in the blacksmith shop next to the forges and pottery kilns . :lol: Just look for the bright red glow , you'll find them.

Yeah pretty hard to put a PE summit in an outhouse One will not have a hard time finding CFM they will be front and center with full engineering staff to answer all you questions
Last year no one was in PE little booth

 

[Roospike]

Dont forget about Vermont Castings , there booth is set up in the blacksmith shop next to the forges and pottery kilns . :lol: Just look for the bright red glow , you'll find them.

Yeah pretty hard to put a PE summit in an outhouse One will not have a hard time finding CFM they will be front and center with full engineering staff to answer all you questions
Last year no one was in PE little booth

********* :lol: ************