Correct Way to Reline?

[mopar440_6]

So, based on the information I received in my previous thread (https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/introduction-and-old-stove-advice-needed.137426/), we have decided to reline our clay lined 8x12" chimney and upgrade to a current stove for safety and performance.

As it stands I have two quotes for the reline job. The first quote is from the CSIA certified/NCSG member sweep company which did the cleaning and inspection. They are quoting (not itemized) $1989 for an unknown brand of 6" 316SS insulated flex liner installed. However, after speaking with the owner today, I found out they are not quoting any labor for breaking out the tiles and do not plan to break out the tiles. He stated that leaving the clay liner provides an added layer of protection.

The second quote is from the local stove shop which is pretty much the only one in the area and are pretty reputable but I cannot find any certifications for them. In fact they can't even do their own inspections and outsource it to an individual inspector who I cannot find listed with CSIA, NCSG, or NFPA. They are quoting $2165 for a 6" ForeverFlex 316Ti SS insulated liner installed including labor to break out the existing tiles. The cost they show for just the liner kit and materials is $1135.

My question is about breaking out the tiles. I measured the existing chimney this afternoon and it is only 6.5-6.75" wide. Based on the measurements given online an insulated 6" liner will have a total OD of 7.5" after the insulation kit so in my mind there is no way the liner will fit without removing the current tiles. Yet the certified sweep company is saying that they can easily fit an insulated liner without breaking tiles yet the company without any certifications (as far as I can tell) is stating that the tiles must be broken out to reline. In my feeble mind having an insulated SS liner inside the clay liner is an added level of protection but something about it just doesn't add up.

So what is correct? Breaking the tiles or not? Are both companies reaching the same end goal of a safe, up to code chimney but just skinning the cat a different way? Do I just need more quotes at this point?

Another option would be to get the same ForeverFlex liner kit online for $1120 and install myself. I have no issues about doing the install myself but I would want to make sure that I'm doing it right. I know that the insulated liners are 0 clearance to masonry so what is the right way to do it?

 

[begreen]

#1 quote might be putting in a 5.5" liner with 1/2" insulation. If this is a 2 story chimney I'd be ok with that.

 

[claydogg84]

I installed a liner in my chimney with no prior experience. I ordered an oval to make it easier to install, and also to avoid having to knock out existing clay tiles. I used chimneylinerdepot and they were very helpful on the phone with any questions I had. Initially I was going to do the wrap insulation, but didn't have enough room with an 8" pipe, so I did the pour down.

 

[Grisu]

our clay lined 8x12" chimney

it is only 6.5-6.75" wide

Which of the two is it? Is the 6.5" maybe just the damper? The sweep may plan to just cut it out.

 

[mopar440_6]

#1 quote might be putting in a 5.5" liner with 1/2" insulation. If this is a 2 story chimney I'd be ok with that.

begreen, the original quote was $300 more based on the ancient smoke dragon that I have now with a 7" liner and he still said they wouldn't break out the tiles. Is it possible that they are just saying 6" or 7" but quoting an oval liner of equivalent cross sectional area?

The chimney is a exterior brick, dead straight and approximately 31'-32' from crock to top. The house was built in 2003 so I would assume that the existing clay liner has 1-2" of air space between it and the brick. Chimneysweeponline's website shows that even a 5.5" liner with 1/2" wrap insulation will be a total of 7" OD which I think would still be too large to fit through the existing clay liner.

Which of the two is it? Is the 6.5" maybe just the damper? The sweep may plan to just cut it out.

Grisu, the existing liner is 8x12 nominal (based on the external dimensions I believe). Actual internal dimensions are approximately 6.5x10.5 from what I was able to measure from the cleanout door.

 

[begreen]

Could be they are just considering ovalizing the liner. You could do the same with a good liner.

Smoke dragon with a 7" liner? Is it stainless? Is this the same chimney?

 

[mopar440_6]

Could be they are just considering ovalizing the liner. You could do the same with a good liner.

Smoke dragon with a 7" liner? Is it stainless? Is this the same chimney?

I've already read a few threads on here about ovalizing and making the jig to do so. Are there any issues/dangers/drawbacks to ovalizing a standard round liner?

The smoke dragon is technically a coal stove and has a 7" collar (all Baker stoves are 7" for some reason even their old wood only stoves). Based on the 7" collar they quoted for a 7" SS liner instead of 6" because I wasn't planning to change stoves at the time they cleaned the chimney. Yes, same chimney.

 

[bholler]

Are there any issues/dangers/drawbacks to ovalizing a standard round liner?

If done properly no there is no problem other than the fact that you are reducing volume of that liner when you ovalize it so many times you need to up size the liner to get enough volume. And by the way we would break out the liners to I feel it is the right way to do it if it will be that tight

 

[mopar440_6]

Anyone have any thoughts (positive or negative) on a pre-insulated liner? Woodland Direct has a 316Ti SS pre-insulated liner that is supposed to provide zero clearance to masonry. It seems like the pre-insulated might be a lot less hassle and much easier to install (no worries about the insulation mat/chicken wire catching on anything). The price is almost identical to a standard liner with an insulation kit.

Also, is smooth wall flex liner worth the extra expense? It seems that the flow would be better and the pipe that I looked at seemed to be a little tougher but less flexible.

 

[mellow]

Order a pre-Ovalized 5.5" liner and wrap it, keep the tiles in. Install a key damper and the 30nc and you should be good to go. Might also want to get a pull cone.

 

[claydogg84]

Order a pre-Ovalized 5.5" liner and wrap it, keep the tiles in. Install a key damper and the 30nc and you should be good to go. Might also want to get a pull cone.

I would do this, but get a 6" pre ovalized with wrap. It would fit no problem and you can install it yourself.

 

[MJFlores]

Have them do it right and break out the clay tiles, so they can install a 6" pipe with 1" of insulated wrap. I just had mine done, and the breakout probably took 30 mins max. It wasn't at all the big deal I thought it was going to be.