Covid scare

  • Active since 1995, Hearth.com is THE place on the internet for free information and advice about wood stoves, pellet stoves and other energy saving equipment.

    We strive to provide opinions, articles, discussions and history related to Hearth Products and in a more general sense, energy issues.

    We promote the EFFICIENT, RESPONSIBLE, CLEAN and SAFE use of all fuels, whether renewable or fossil.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Please provide the reason...
to stamp out the disease and the deaths and societal cost it causes. Sometimes things happen because the country deems it best for the country, even if not all people agree. Vaccination requirements (to enjoy certain privileges) is one of those. Many other cases exist (see eminent domain).
 
Please provide the reason...
Thanks to the polio vaccine, dedicated health care professionals, and parents who vaccinate their children on schedule, polio has been eliminated in this country for more than 30 years. This means that there is no year-round transmission of poliovirus in the United States.

Maybe this will help , seems simple enough to understand. The polio vaccine started in 1953 I believe . I’m sure science has come a long long way since 1953 !
 
We'll, my wife works in a hospital and in nursing homes. She has seen most of her patients die before the vaccines came about. So that is not believing, it is knowing. I'm a scientist. It's data that matter, not beliefs.

And I suspect insurance premiums will go up after the large add on costs of this pandemic will be charged to all of us.

And I refer to the polio example above.

I understand I won't change your mind. So I'll stop here.
 
Thanks to the polio vaccine, dedicated health care professionals, and parents who vaccinate their children on schedule, polio has been eliminated in this country for more than 30 years. This means that there is no year-round transmission of poliovirus in the United States.

Maybe this will help , seems simple enough to understand. The polio vaccine started in 1953 I believe . I’m sure science has come a long long way since 1953 !
So polio has been declared eradicated! Is that true?
I recently read a medical report where they accused the unaxxed Amish for"Their lower rates of routine and preventative health care use, reliance on natural remedies, and emphasis on face-to-face collective rituals, which involves crowding into a member’s home for religious services, have contributed to measles, polio, and rubella outbreaks in Amish communities".
Remember we you thought that masks worked?
Remember when you thought if you are vaxxed, you will not spread Covid?
Remember when you thought if you were vaxxed, you would not get Covid?
 
Thanks to the polio vaccine, dedicated health care professionals, and parents who vaccinate their children on schedule, polio has been eliminated in this country for more than 30 years. This means that there is no year-round transmission of poliovirus in the United States.

Maybe this will help , seems simple enough to understand. The polio vaccine started in 1953 I believe . I’m sure science has come a long long way since 1953 !
So polio has been declared eradicated! Is that true?

I recently read a medical report where they accused the unvaxxed Amish for"Their lower rates of routine and preventative health care use, reliance on natural remedies, and emphasis on face-to-face collective rituals, which involves crowding into a member’s home for religious services, have contributed to measles, polio, and rubella outbreaks in Amish communities".

Remember when you thought that masks worked?
Remember when you thought if you are vaxxed, you will not spread Covid?
Remember when you thought if you were vaxxed, you would not get Covid
 
So polio has been declared eradicated! Is that true?
I recently read a medical report where they accused the unaxxed Amish for"Their lower rates of routine and preventative health care use, reliance on natural remedies, and emphasis on face-to-face collective rituals, which involves crowding into a member’s home for religious services, have contributed to measles, polio, and rubella outbreaks in Amish communities".
Remember we you thought that masks worked?
Remember when you thought if you are vaxxed, you will not spread Covid?
Remember when you thought if you were vaxxed, you would not get Covid?
No polio has not been eradicated it's still here. It's just that most people are not vulnerable to it anymore.

Masks do work. That has been proven over and over. Are they 100% effective no of course not but they help allot.

The vaccines work. That has been proven over and over as well. Again not 100% effective but a hell of a lot better than without it.
 
No polio has not been eradicated it's still here. It's just that most people are not vulnerable to it anymore.

Masks do work. That has been proven over and over. Are they 100% effective no of course not but they help allot.

The vaccines work. That has been proven over and over as well. Again not 100% effective but a hell of a lot better than without it.
This is per the CDC:The United States has been polio-free since 1979, thanks to a successful vaccination program. However, poliovirus is still a threat in some countries. Get your child vaccinated on schedule to help keep the U.S. polio-free.

Ummm, someone is lying...
 
This is per the CDC:The United States has been polio-free since 1979, thanks to a successful vaccination program. However, poliovirus is still a threat in some countries. Get your child vaccinated on schedule to help keep the U.S. polio-free.

Ummm, someone is lying...
Yes the us is polio free because we are pretty much all vaccinated. If we stop vaccinating for it we won't be any more it's pretty simple honestly. Think a little bit
 
Remember we you thought that masks worked?
Remember when you thought if you are vaxxed, you will not spread Covid?
Remember when you thought if you were vaxxed, you would not get Covid?

My opinions are my own, but are scientifically informed. If you don't believe in science, you should say that explicitly. Maybe renounce technology and join the Amish?

1. Masks do work.
2. I never thought that getting vaxxed would prevent me from getting and/or spreading Covid, because that was never the scientific expectation. I thought they would reduce the probability of those things somewhat, and that that partial protection would fade with time.

My post was in fact trying to explain that the point of getting vaxxed (and boosted) is to reduce the chance of dying (and severe illness), and how it is that vaccines are much better at that than preventing infection and transmission. IOW, your vaxxed immune system is not capable of preventing infection or transmission (just like how you get colds again and again), but it IS able to keep you from dying (assuming its working ok).

You can choose to not get vaxxed, just like you can decide to smoke two packs a day, despite both being a danger to your health, and to a lesser extent the health of those around you. But don't pretend its the smart or healthy choice.
 
This is per the CDC:The United States has been polio-free since 1979, thanks to a successful vaccination program. However, poliovirus is still a threat in some countries. Get your child vaccinated on schedule to help keep the U.S. polio-free.

Ummm, someone is lying...
My post about the polio vaccine was straight from the CDC . Guess I should have clarified that but I don’t believe it would make any difference whatsoever .
Your gonna believe what you want to believe and as was previously stated nobody here is gonna change your mind .
I’ll take the science of mask and vaccines .
 
Until everyone comes to realize that many of the issues over vaccines are politically motivated it is going to be hard to have a honest conversation about it. We have not followed the science when it comes to mask mandates, we have not followed the science when it comes to the orgins of covid. Do you think our blue states finally decided to end mask mandates because of the science? No mandates were ended because they feared it would impact midterms. The vaccine does not prevent covid it lessens the symptoms. People who are double vaxed with a booster still get covid. The cdc even changed the definition of what a vaccine is. If the polio vaccine didn’t stop polio should it be called a vaccine? The Supreme Court ruled vaccine mandates are unconstitutional however federal funded employers are required to have a mandate if they want funding. Yes the vaccine does lessen symptoms of covid and has saved lives however there has been cases of heart inflammation after taking the vaccine especially for young people. The decision to get a vaccine is personal decision everyone should have a right to decide. For some of us it may may be the best option. Personally nearly everything we have been told about covid is wrong and the only explanation we get is the science has changed.
 
The antivaxers should all find a desserted island to live on and let darwin's theory play out.
 
There have been studies done where the majority of the population has been vaccinated, look at the Israel study to see how it compares to the USA. To my knowledge their is no other way to treat polio besides a vaccine. This is not true for covid, the sad thing is it has become so political we can’t suggest it because we are censored for misinformation. Just to be clear I am not against vaccines but for free speech and freedom to make my own decisions
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dan Freeman
Until everyone comes to realize that many of the issues over vaccines are politically motivated it is going to be hard to have a honest conversation about it. We have not followed the science when it comes to mask mandates, we have not followed the science when it comes to the orgins of covid. Do you think our blue states finally decided to end mask mandates because of the science? No mandates were ended because they feared it would impact midterms. The vaccine does not prevent covid it lessens the symptoms. People who are double vaxed with a booster still get covid. The cdc even changed the definition of what a vaccine is. If the polio vaccine didn’t stop polio should it be called a vaccine? The Supreme Court ruled vaccine mandates are unconstitutional however federal funded employers are required to have a mandate if they want funding. Yes the vaccine does lessen symptoms of covid and has saved lives however there has been cases of heart inflammation after taking the vaccine especially for young people. The decision to get a vaccine is personal decision everyone should have a right to decide. For some of us it may may be the best option. Personally nearly everything we have been told about covid is wrong and the only explanation we get is the science has changed.
Vaccines have never been 100% effective. No one changed the definition of a vaccine. Our current covid vaccines were very effective at preventing infection from the original variant they were designed to work against. They are less effective against variants but they still reduce the chance of contracting the virus and greatly reduce the severity of symptoms if you do get it
 
There have been studies done where the majority of the population has been vaccinated, look at the Israel study to see how it compares to the USA. To my knowledge their is no other way to treat polio besides a vaccine. This is not true for covid, the sad thing is it has become so political we can’t suggest it because we are censored for misinformation. Just to be clear I am not against vaccines but for free speech and freedom to make my own decisions
Yes there are ways to treat covid. But claiming certain drugs are effective with absolutely no evidence to support that claim isn't helpful to anyone
 
Yes, the Cdc did change the definition of a vaccine to be more transparent. As far as the vaccine preventing covid I’m skeptical. can you provide scientific proof?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dan Freeman
Yes, the Cdc did change the definition of a vaccine to be more transparent. As far as the vaccine preventing covid I’m skeptical. can you provide scientific proof?


There are many many studies available from many different places. Just open your eyes.
 
Maybe I’m missing something the article seemed to discuss covid hospitalizations. Look at the vaccine rates in the Israel study compared to the USA. I also saw a study that says natural immunity can last 3-63 months. Not everything we read on the internet is true especially when political influence is in play.


There are many many studies available from many different places. Just open your eyes.
 
We can all find a scientific study that supports our beliefs and views. Would you like me to send you links to articles discussing heart problems developed in young people after being vaccinated? Once again I’m not against vaccinations and would probably suggest anyone with compromised health conditions to talk with there dr to consider being vaccinated.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dan Freeman
Covid-19 is like playing a game of football. One's immune system is the playing field. You may be forced to play this game whether you want to or not. Vaccinations are like you have recruited some pro prospects for your immune system - they are in shape and they are ready to play. Covid-19 enters the playing field/your body with a good team. This team tries to score - take over cells as virus do. But the pros are there so fast and tackle them (lock onto covid proteins). They drag the Covid team off the playing field. The pros are strong and many.

The unvaccinated football team is a weak one - this team is out of shape and doesn't practice much (untrained immune system). And they are slow, too. So this team is small, slow and untrained. Covid enters onto the playing field (the blood stream). The covid team starts attacking/entering cells. The other team isn't ready, This team's players can't really slow the covid team down. This wimpy team begins recruiting new players (the body's immune system starts making attack cells to battle covid - an immune response). But this can be slow and ineffective in some cases. This wimp team is few in numbers, and slow too. If they had only been better prepared.

Why prime the playing field (your blood stream)? All priming your immune system is doing is throwing in some inert protein matter that forces your football team to get in shape and to multiply before you play the real covid-19 team. Isn't it better to prepare oneself for the upcoming battle that may be coming?
 
This whole story is a political situation and my brother died of wrong protocol and lots of other people too... Stop trying to change minds for it does no good even when it involves their own health. Do it privately with your friends and your love ones...How many ways can you tell people who have taken not much time to get into this subject thinking that their "news feed" are the legitimate ones and it is this one that they "choose to believe" so be it... They have a right to believe the way that they wish too. Each segment of people are in their own bubble and that's the way it is...and "nothing can change that"...Be like a turtle ---pull yourself in---and "I pray for everyone of you" for we get a glimpse how the future could go and a weird thing happened today----hundreds and hundreds of birds fell from the sky coming down in a clump and as you all know---I love birds. God Bless Every One of You...clancey
 
  • Like
Reactions: sprawlnstall
My opinions are my own, but are scientifically informed. If you don't believe in science, you should say that explicitly. Maybe renounce technology and join the Amish?

1. Masks do work.
2. I never thought that getting vaxxed would prevent me from getting and/or spreading Covid, because that was never the scientific expectation. I thought they would reduce the probability of those things somewhat, and that that partial protection would fade with time.

My post was in fact trying to explain that the point of getting vaxxed (and boosted) is to reduce the chance of dying (and severe illness), and how it is that vaccines are much better at that than preventing infection and transmission. IOW, your vaxxed immune system is not capable of preventing infection or transmission (just like how you get colds again and again), but it IS able to keep you from dying (assuming its working ok).

You can choose to not get vaxxed, just like you can decide to smoke two packs a day, despite both being a danger to your health, and to a lesser extent the health of those around you. But don't pretend its the smart or

The antivaxers should all find a desserted island to live on and let darwin's theory play out.
Why the hate??? You are "protected" so why do you care if other people choose not to get vaxxed? Do you also hate people that smoke, because they are doing something that might affect theyre health? What about obese people. Do you hate them because theyre eating habits will be theyre early demise?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dan Freeman
Maybe I’m missing something the article seemed to discuss covid hospitalizations. Look at the vaccine rates in the Israel study compared to the USA. I also saw a study that says natural immunity can last 3-63 months. Not everything we read on the internet is true especially when political influence is in play.
Ok first it is a scientific study not an article. And maybe that one does focus on hospitalizations. I should have read them further. But even those studies do go into protection from infection if you read the body of them.

And you absolutely can't believe everything you read on the internet. That's why it's important to rely on peer reviewed studies from reliable sources.

This whole story is a political situation and my brother died of wrong protocol and lots of other people too... Stop trying to change minds for it does no good even when it involves their own health. Do it privately with your friends and your love ones...How many ways can you tell people who have taken not much time to get into this subject thinking that their "news feed" are the legitimate ones and it is this one that they "choose to believe" so be it... They have a right to believe the way that they wish too. Each segment of people are in their own bubble and that's the way it is...and "nothing can change that"...Be like a turtle ---pull yourself in---and "I pray for everyone of you" for we get a glimpse how the future could go and a weird thing happened today----hundreds and hundreds of birds fell from the sky coming down in a clump and as you all know---I love birds. God Bless Every One of You...clancey
Don't rely on news feeds rely on scientific studies
 
You can think about this as political, or you can think about the differences as being a result of how different viruses interact with the body. Which is super different.

Polio? Polio infects you systemically and attacks your nerves. Since your antibodies and T-cells are in your bloodstream where the virus needs to work, a vaccine CAN prevent infection and nerve damage. And the vaccine is EASY to make, you just inject polio virus proteins or attenuated virus. (Smallpox was also easy, bc it needs to get into you skin, which is full of immune cells.)

AIDS? HIV infects your immune system itself! Very sneaky that. And after 40 years, we don't have a working vaccine.

Common Cold (including the other 4 coronaviruses)? We have all heard 'we can land people on the moon, but we can't find a cure for the common cold!' Why? Bc as I said, the cold virus just infects your ENT cells, and only needs to do that to replicate and get transmitted. And its almost impossible for your immune cells to protect that first line of defense in your body. The virus doesn't (and doesn't need to) infect you systemically. We COULD make a vaccine against the common cold (it would be easy), but all it would do is reduce the odds of you getting a cold somewhat, for a little while. And since no healthy people die from colds, there would be no market for that protection.

So when Covid happened, if you read the actual scientific literature at the time (as I did) or understood basic virology, you knew 99% that it would be like the common cold case, and not like AIDS (no vax for decades) OR polio (easy vax that wipes out the disease).

But we also knew that a NEW coronavirus could kill. Remember the 1890 virus. OG Covid has a death rate of 1-2%, which is a lot higher than its coronavirus cousins that we have all had a bunch of times. But there is nothing obviously that different between Covid and those others, except that we have never had it before, and thus zero antibodies and T-cells. For the other 4, we are getting them for the first time as children, and already have antibodies (like getting vaxed) from our mothers and mother's milk. Just like how babies born after 2030 will all be protected from covid without a shot.

So any virologist would have told you by mid 2020 that the most likely end game for the pandemic was to kill 1-2% of the world population over the course of a few years, and then covid would settle down to an endemic virus that kills very few people, **just like** the last new pandemic coronavirus in 1890. IOW, it would kill 50-100 M people worldwide in a few years without any mitigation It was this (still correct) projection that led to lockdowns and masking. Duh. Delay the spread until we can get everyone vaxxed.

The world is still less than half vaxxed (with GOOD vaccines) after 2 years, and the global death total is a bit over 10M (deaths are significantly underreported overseas). That is a LOT of saved lives (again, most of them overseas) bc of masking and mitigation. This death number will continue to climb until the world gets fully vaxxed, but it will hopefully come in under 20M. Mitigation and vaccination will have saved 30-80 M lives worldwide. AWESOME. Go Science and public health!

And all of the above was well known and predictable to anyone who could and did read the science, in mid-2020. Period.

It could've gone different ways:

--The virus could've mutated to get more deadly (they do that sometimes). MERS is a coronavirus that has a 20% death rate in unvaxxed people! 20%! And it raged through Korea causing a mass panic in 2015. That is why the asian countries are all great at masking... they had a big scare with a virus with 10x the death rate of Covid just 5 years prior. So they don't eff around over there.

--The virus could mutate to become less deadly. It looks like Omicron is 50% less deadly. It kills 0.5-1% of the unvaxxed, unlike the 1-2% of earlier strains. Bit too high for my comfort, but that means that the original 100M global deaths without mitigation, would 'only' be 50M with Omicron (or 3000 Million with MERS). The unvaxxed caught a big break. 50% lower chance of death.

--Everyone could've gotten vaxxed and boosted (if eligible) in the US. This didn't happen. If this had happened, there still would have been a Delta wave and an Omicron wave (which started overseas). You still would've started getting covid sometimes, just like we all will in the future. But the death and hospitalization rates would be far lower than they have been, and we would've gotten 'back to normal', maybe wearing masks for a month or two in some public settings, way earlier than we have.

--There are anti-vax people in every country. In fact there are similar numbers of them. On the scale of mandates and forced vaccination, the US is, predictably, not doing that very much at all. We do allow our citizens to make a lot of dumb choices that people in other countries are not allowed to make. That is also not really a surprise to anyone.

--The reopening while the virus is still circulating now? Also predictable. Had to happen. In every other pandemic in history the population gets to the point of being done with mitigation. In a couple years. Look in a history book. And so the goal was always to use mitigation (which has a finite time limit) to limit the spread (and deaths) until we could get everyone vaxxed. If everyone had gotten vaxxed last summer (and boosted this winter), we would've ended mitigation sooner (!) than we did. Right now we have vaxxed people doing mitigation not bc they are stupid or coerced or misinformed, but to protect the unvaxxed! And they are tired of doing that. I still wear masks at work and on the train, which is a PITA, not bc I am in any danger from Covid (I'm not), but on the off chance that I could spread the virus to a (willingly) unvaxxed person. But the vaxxed and masking people are DONE. You unvaxxed people had your chance to protect yourselves, now you can face the consequences of not doing so. For 90+% of you, those will be minimal. Good luck.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.