creosote already?

[steve reynolds]

i recently installed a wood stove with new double wall 2 sections and a section of single inside house. i have used this maybe 4 weeks so far this year. and maybe a week of solid burn time the other 3 weeks have been off and on burns (maybe only at night then not till next night and so on).. 95% of the wood has been nice seasoned ash.. the rest is ash that is not seasoned as well as the other.

now i started noticing snap crackle and pop sounds when i first start a fire. it almost sounds like creosote falling down from above in the pipes. can this be creosote build up already!??? if it is creosote does this sound mean its time to clean pipe already?

 

[Snotrocket]

Are you sure it's not just the pipe heating up?

If you're that worried about it, wait until everything is all cooled off and pull it apart.

 

[corey21]

It could be the pipe heating up or creosote.

How is your stove top temps during your fires?

 

[MnDave]

Do you have an EPA stove? The older stoves do not do a good job of burning the wood gasses especially if the air is choked off. Those gasses condense in the chimney as creosote.

When was the last time you ran the brush or are yopu saying the whole thing is almost new?

MnDave

 

[ridemgis]

For what its worth - My double wall pipe makes plenty of snap and pop as it heats up too.

 

[BrotherBart]

Tell us about the whole chimney setup. I am intrigued if you have a mix of single and double wall connector pipe inside.

 

[steve reynolds]

sorry about the delay in the reply but had to go out of town, sorry
i am using a blaze king royal heir (the big one, i think 2100? cant remember if the 2100 or the 2300 is the big one) anyway it does use the catalyst and seems to be working? i have a 3 foot section of single wall coming out of stove, then a single to double connector then 2 sections of double wall stainless after that.. i also have a attic insulation shield in between my ceiling and roof, for extra safety.. this is in a mobile home so taking some extra precautions.. i know i should have used black double wall coming out of sytove but money was tight at the time and i have over 40 inches of clearance from everything around the single wall including front, back. sides, and ceiling..so it should be ok. but anyway that is my setup..
sounds kind of crazy to have creosote build up already though.. been installed about 2 months but only used it about 4 weeks maybe.. been burning some well seasoned ash and some unseasoned but not very much unseasoned ash yet been mostly well seasoned. from what i have read unseasoned ash shouldnt create a huge problem anyway since it is low on water content to begin with..

 

[begreen]

I think you are confusing terms. The flue connector is what connects the stove to the chimney pipe. The chimney pipe (usually shiney stainless) is the high temperature pipe that goes outside. What lengths are the double-wall stainless? We're trying to guess at the total amount of flue pipe on the stove. It sounds like you may have a cathedral ceiling support box that drops down into the interior of the home, is this correct? A picture or two here is worth a thousand words.

Regardless, it could be you have too much stove for the place and it is basically on low idle all the time. That's going to lead to a cool flue and creosote condensation. Burning anything but totally dry wood is going to exacerbate the situation.

 

[steve reynolds]

here is what i am talking about for the attic insulation guard.. i used it just for a little added saftey as far as clearance in between ceiling and roof..
http://menards.com/main/heating-coo...-attic-insulation-shield/p-1323344-c-6894.htm
the piece in that link is a double walled guard
and 3 foot sections of stainless

and i think you are absolutely correct about to much stove for my space.. i have it set at about half way on the thermostat.. it is almost smoldering more than it burns.. only thing i can do is change the stove for a smaller stove or clean the pipe alot more often? how often would you recommend seeing that i have to burn it like this...
thanks for the reply

 

[DanCorcoran]

"Seasoned" can be a vague term. How many years has the wood been outside drying, since it was split? An inexpensive moisture meter (does a neighbor have one you could use) would determine if it is less than 20% on a freshly split inside face.

 

[begreen]

Are you saying that there is only 3ft between the stove top and the ceiling? That seems way too close and too low for a normal ceiling. Combine that with only 6ft of chimney and the stove seems like it has too little flue.

We could really use some pictures of the setup.

 

[steve reynolds]

sorry dont have any pics at moment.. but there is 6 ft from stove top to ceiling.. 3 ft of single wall then 3 ft of stainless that gets me to ceiling then 3 ft stainless to go out above roof..
total of 9 ft of pipe.. stove top sit aprox. 3 ft of ground.. this is a really tall stove.

 

[steve reynolds]

A 9 foot chimney is to short for most wood stoves.

so add a 3rd section of stainless outside would help?

 

[corey21]

so add a 3rd section of stainless outside would help?

Sorry missed the part about how the stove is run it does sound like you have to big of a stove.

 

[steve reynolds]

i know that is run a little awkward but i have a perfect 3 inch circle cut around the double wall going through ceiling and a trim piece in between stainless and ceiling where it goes through ceiling and into the attic insulation guard.. in fact i have it a little over kill where it goes through the ceiling with the trim piece and the 3 inch circle for clearance (pipe only calls for 2) and the double wall stainless attic insulation guard in ceiling.. and i know it looks like crap with stainless in my kitchen but trust me i have it safe with all the stuff i have at where it goes through ceiling.

but yes too much stove is my opinion also... cant burn hot enough to keep pipes hot!

i actually used a buddies infrared themometer on the pipes and ceiling yesterday and here are the readings.. single wall black pipe was 200 degrees,,, double wall was only giving a reading of 100 but i know it was hotter than that it was hot to the touch 100 seems low to me? but anyway and the actual ceiling was at 110 degrees at the pipe area... it was 90 degrees on ceiling about 6 inches from double wall stainless

 

[begreen]

Looks like the 2100 if this has the 8" flue collar. How many sq ft are you heating? In this mild winter it has to be seriously oversized.

The stove was not installed according to manufacturer's specs. Mobile homes have special requirements. For instance, it needs a double-wall connector and outside air kit. Seems like important parts of the installation skipped, notably the ceiling support box. Is all of the weight of the pipe supported by the stove? Also, were clearances honored? This stove needs 16" behind it to the nearest combustibles.



Getting back to the creosote issue. Yes the flue is too short, but it's only one of a number of issues. Resplit a few splits and test the moisture on the freshly exposed wood faces. I suspect the wood is not fully seasoned on top of the flue issues. For this stove you need enough pipe to achieve at least .02WC for draft. I'm guessing that this would be about 12' of total flue. Do you get smoke spillage when you open the door of the stove?



Do you have a copy of the manual? If not it is still available here:
(broken link removed to http://www.blazeking.com/PDF/manuals/old/RHT-2100_RHT-2200.pdf)

 

[steve reynolds]

i have way over the clearances i have 36 inches or over in back and sides and obviously front is moot point. yes you are correct there is no support in ceiling as it would have been almost impossible to do in motor home.. i didnt really see a problem since i only have 2-- 3 ft sections of stainless and a 3 ft section of single wall black, we are only talking maybe 15 lbs on stove collar. and the outside air.... no i didnt install the outside air kit either because of all the drafts in these windows and doors.. if it was any where air tight then i would have purchased the outside air kit. no i do not get any spillage of smoke into house when i open it as long as i give a second after i open the flu.. if i open the flu and open door immediately then yes i get spillage for a second or two until it gets draft. up top i have at least 2 ft of pipe from anything 10 ft around it.

yes it has been very very mild here so far.. i immagine when we start getting constant teens and 20's it will run a hell of a lot better. but as of now i admit i have to run it very weak!
how often would you recomend cleaning this since i am having to run this way.. i mean it really isnt going to be that hard for me.. i only have to climb 14 ft and i am on roof!

i admit i had to skip a few minor steps like outside air and no ceiling support but i suspect it is very safe, i hope anyway! its not like the stove collar is holding up 8 sections of stain;ess at 100 lbs and its not like my house is air tight and this stove need outside air,, it is FAR from air tight and gets all the fresh air it needs.
thanks

 

[steve reynolds]

now that i think about the ceiling support.. whats the chances of the 2 sections of stainless causing the single wall black pipe to split at the snap together seam? is there a possibility of that? wow i never thought about that till now! hmmmm

also the storm collar on top would actually be holding some of the weight, not alot but some i would think

isnt that stuff made once you get it snapped together it cant come apart unless it can be squeezed together to unsnap it? so if it is connected to a pipe it cant be squeezed together to come aprt?

 

[begreen]

You said motor home, is that correct? What exactly is this installed in? How many sq ft are being heated?

I can't speculate on the pipe. This is not a standard installation and I have no idea how many other safe methods of installation were skipped that might affect the pipe.

 

[steve reynolds]

roughly 1120 ... it is a 14x80 motor home. i installed a fan center on my furnace so i can run furnace fan without heat being on and it displaces the heat fairly well that way. it pulls the heat to the rear of the home. and also replaces the hot heat in the front where the wood stove is with some cooler air from registers.

so far this season it has save me over 2 propane tank fill ups at 200 dollars a pop ... i have to pay 36 bucks so far and thats for my water heater use!

there is only one skipped thing that kind of bothers me and thats the ceiling support. i wish there was a way for me to get a support in there i will research it.. as for the outside air.. i researched that before i installed and that is just for fresh air.. and oxygen in the house since it is so small. the meaning of that is in case an air tight home, again this place is no way air tight not even close. now next year when i install new windows and doors i had planned on installing the outside air kit but until then there is no way it was needed. you can watch blinds blow when wind blows to hard.

 

[begreen]

You need to be extra careful here given a mobile environment. Besides being correctly sized for the environment, the stove needs to be bolted down, the flue structure needs to be bulletproof. and the chimney needs to be removable for getting under low overpasses.

 

[steve reynolds]

ummm what? the mobile home is not moving what do you mean?
of course i understand that if it moves bolt down is required and alot more! holy crap are you serious! this home would be sold back to park owner befotre oit was moved! in othger words it will never be moved!

are you saying that i would leave it as is to move it? comon now... we all lnow it has to be secured and alot more... codes call for bolted down and outside air kit and a ground!! trust me i have researched this

what do you think this ground wire is for? serious! answer this one for me?

do you know
?

seems someone is wanting to get into a pissing match!
i am not wanting to get into this with you... obviously you are superior on this to me! but seems you want to through stones at my setup! i know i have skipped a few things. but it is safe and you now it but you are wanting to play games with it because i didnt follow steps to the T... IF IT IS NOT SAFE .. EXPLAIN WHY AND AS TO THE SPECIFIC POINT!

 

[steve reynolds]

YOU KNOW IT IS NOT MOVING so why mention overpasses!! i mean really?

ok so i have 3 ft of stainless in my kitchen! wouldnt that be as safe as single wall connecting to a thimble in thye ceiling going to stainless double going through mu ceiling on a thimble? i mean really only thing i dont have3 is a ceiling support for the 2 sections of 3ft stainless pipe! and a outside air kit to insure that we have enopugh oxygen in the house! and trust me we have enough oxygen because of house drafts
anyone else have problems with whats going on... i am happy to get constructive critisim ... inwill take it and researtch and learn from it!

 

[MT12157]

roughly 1120 ... it is a 14x80 motor home

Just reading your post and

You did say motor home (which though probably a typo), is driven where as your mobile home is permanent hence the confusion maybe?

Seems to me if the stove is oversized and is just basically idling that would coat up the pipe with creosote faster than normal. I am no expert on the installation though.

 

[steve reynolds]

mobile home! yes it can be moved but never will.. it is 14x80 with no engine or steering wheel. hehehe.. we all know what a mobile home is.