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Posted By mywaynow,
Jan 24, 2013 at 7:59 AM
Dang, surprised your stove hasn't turned into a light bulb!
The few times I have had too much coaling with the 30 i just bring in the metal 5 gallon bucket and empty the stove and start over. No big loss of heat in a few coals. Wood is cheap. Keeping the house warm is the priority.
I have had good luck the last couple days mixing the hard wood with some soft wood to help the coaling excess.
Like my other topic a full load of hickory and its up around 20% moisture sure gets you a bunch of coals.
I really think wood around 15% moisture content is the ideal not the 20% or below that most go by.
20% I have always had a little issue with , it works but not the best.
Given the current weather conditions as well as my insulation(lack there of) I have found I am reloading more often to keep pace. This has increased the amount of coal build up and I found that if I have 1/2hr or so I can toss a couple pieces of dry bark onto a stirred coal bed and leave the door cracked and it is gone pretty quick. Or at least down to a more managable amount. Just a suggestion
My wood was at 19% at the beginning of the season this year. 50% of the wood is Red Oak, balance is cherry and ash for the most part. CSS is 2 1/2 years at this point. My typical air position is with the spring just short of the ash lip. Most of the time the temp on the stack is 200 under the stove top. I am using the door ajar coal burning with some success. It take about 45 minutes to knock down the pile of coals to a managable volume for reloading. Going through about 5-6 loads per day now. When I don't have to push the stove so hard, the loads are 4 per day.
That's a lot of loads. Which means you are reloading at a higher temp. Which is why you have a coaling issue.
No doubt. No choice though. Once the burn is over, the heat is gone. 400-450 stove top does not cut the cake when trying to keep the upstairs warm. I can remember when the VC was cooking, the basement was over 80 degrees. It was pushing so many more btu's into the house. the stove was larger, but the actual capacity did not seem so different. It is surprising that some are claiming the 600 and 5700 would be no better. These stoves claim to handle sq ft areas of 3500, vs the 2200 on the 30. The more I contemplate this, the more I think I will end up with another Defiant.
It isn't heating capacity that is the issue here. It's is getting the heat to where it's needed. That is where the large inefficiencies are occurring. The stove is an area heater.
Yes, it is very different. The Old Defiant is larger than the 30. The Vigilant, which is smaller hold about the same amount of wood as the 30.
Like I have said many, many, many times, stoves are not magic. A 3 cu ft firebox will heat an area about the same as another 3 cu ft firebox. The F600 and the 5700 have the same size firebox, which is technically smaller than the 3.55 cu ft firebox of the 30. Stop looking at square footage claims. It will note offer you any solutions.
Coaling build up is common to all EPA stoves due to the reduced air intake. Burning them down is also a pain for the same reason. Controllable forced air on the doghouse would be nice for this situation. or just a ton larger dog house that is controllable would work as well, but that would cause issues with those that are less than adequately mentally advanced. ( or another way: capable and do read and follow instructions, naw ain't gonna happen )
My old stove was like that (controlable dog house ) but also a secondary burn style ( pre EPA) It was too small for this place, and I would get coal build up when pushing it very hard as well, but was quicker to reduce same. It would have made EPA specs but the company got out of the business. One of thes days I have to pull it apart a replace a warped/ burned through baffle in it, Not designed as a replacement part though.
With this real cold stretch I can only get 3 1/2 to 4 hours out of five medium size splits of ash then Im down to coals. House is at 73-75 when the stove is at its peak. I figured going from a 1.3 cf box to a 2.3 cf box I would do better in colder weather, maybe Im asking too much from a non-cat stove. When temps are in the 20's I can get the house up to the high 70's. I have been totally cleaning out all ashes everyday this helps the blower kick on faster for me.
HuntinDog, We have a basement install in an unfinished basement. My wife painted all the basement walls with the heat reflective paint. It may have made a slight difference. 1-2 degrees on the surface of the concrete walls at best. Like my wife said, any paint has some sealing and slight insulation qualities. She is in the process of painting all the ceilings on the first floor now.
When loading last night I took note of the air setting. A more accurate position for normal burning (set position once load takes) is 35% open. The stove top was at 425 after 3 hours. That would be fine for a more controlled, refined area, but 425 there means low 60s upstairs. I think the current species of wood includes quite a bit of elm mixed with the red oak. Both tend to coal, which is exasperating the problem. I will put the mm on a split tonight for an update.
Oh - I also have my air control completely closed or pushed in while burning with stove top temps in the 6-700 range. Not sure why you need to keep yours that far open to burn. My chimney is roughly 16' straight off the stove - through house set up. DBL wall stovepipe to Class A all Dura vent. If I left my air at 35% it would be an inferno and last about 2hrs max.
I also took out the ash plug and replaced it with fire brick prior to ever using the stove. Just trying to throw out ideas and potential areas to look. I personally would like to have the option of cutting back more air and am considering magnets over some of the primary air inlet. When cruising I get complete secondary fire raging in the top with little or no burning wood. Mostly ash with some ash and more ash mixed in. And an occasional split of maple. No clue of the MC but it is dry.
From all the information and if your wood is truly below 20% I am thinking something must be up with either the stove or the flue system or both. I find this stove to do all that it has been raved about and more.
biggest problem is coaling levels that result from overfeeding
Yeah we can sympathize, that was a big problem when we burned locust.
Other than that did you try and burn wide open throttle? That should help knock down those coals if also remove the inert, spent ash from the front of the stove when you can.
I only get the large amount of coals when its cold and I am using all oak and some of this oak is 3 or 4 years old and some of it was inside my shop for a year so its dry. I would not call it overfeeding I am just trying to keep the house warm.
MM shows the 19% that I expected. Trying to burn down the coal bed right now.
Are you taking your reading from the outside of a split or are you resplitting a piece and taking it that way? Just curious becuae if this is the case there is seriously something ascew with your stove or flu??
Location is the problem. This barn is 2,500 sq. ft. on the two floors and burning oak in a 30 with down to nine at night and mid-twenties daytime and it is 77 at waist height on the first floor when I go to bed and 71 upstairs and 73 downstairs and 68-69 upstairs eleven hours after reload.
Were I trying to heat from the basement we would be freezing. That stove ain't rated to heat from under ground. It is rated to heat the living area. If a Vig could do it my hat is off to it.
Vig? Vigilant? Mine was a Defiant, and it did do it well. Splits are mm'd after being freshly split. A cold one this morning mm'd at 22, but I brought one inside and split it tonight for the 19 reading.
Correction: Defiant. Them iron things all look the same to me.
Like I said, the Defiant is a larger stove.
I have my doubts that the 30 is using as much wood a the Defiant, though. That would be pretty tough to accomplish.
That's exactly what the problem is. We see the same thing all the time with different stoves. Plenty of happy BKK and BKP users but every so often one gets put in an uninsulated basement and just isn't up to the task. If I was trying to heat this place from the basement I would lose. Right now it's 72* in the hallway leading to the steps going up to the bedrooms, my kids rooms are 62* and mine is 64*. If my stove was in an uninsulated first floor it would be really cold in here.
My neighbor to the south has an old Defiant(77?) in his basement with the cat ripped out. When I was in his basement a few feet away from it I thought my face was gonna melt, it was reading 600* on the stove top at that point. That stove in my space would make things awfully uncomfortable!
If it is the old side loading Defiant with solid black doors, there ain't no cat in that thing.
The Vigilant had the ability to produce the same type of violent heat as well. But it was a smaller stove, I could only imagine what the old Defiant was like. The only thing that has come close is when I hover over the 30. Even the modern Defiant that I run does not produce the same type of heat blast that the Vigilant did.
But, the 30 and the Defiant heat a larger area than the Vigilant did, oddly enough.
That forward throwing heat is what made the Defiant so nice in my application. Stove is in the corner of the basement, near the walk in door, and the stairs are just beyond midway in the footprint. I can verify the wood use with accuracy. The Defiant would use a full wagon load per day. The 30 does not when temps are above 35, but when under, it is virtually equal. I get 2 loads at a time; one from the wagon into the bin, and then the wagon is filled and stored near the bin. Every two days I do it again.