Damaged chimney

[somelikeithot45]

I recently had an Ambiance Hipster 20 and stove pipe installed by a professional fireplace company. The stove was working great for the first month and a half, but we got a good amount of snow (nothing too crazy) and once it warmed up enough to slide off the metal roof, it took out the top portion of the pipe.



The installer told me I should contact my roofer and have them put in something to divert the snow (which I did). They also said I should file a claim with my insurance company before they come out and fix it.

I feel like they should cover the repair. I consulted with them on placement, and if sliding snow was going to be an issue, they should have advised against putting it there or installed something to stop the snow. It didn't even last 2 months!

Am I being unreasonable? Also is that top portion of pipe completely ruined, or can the dent in the outer layer be banged out?

Sorry for the long post and thank you for any advice!

 

[bholler]

I recently had an Ambiance Hipster 20 and stove pipe installed by a professional fireplace company. The stove was working great for the first month and a half, but we got a good amount of snow (nothing too crazy) and once it warmed up enough to slide off the metal roof, it took out the top portion of the pipe.
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The installer told me I should contact my roofer and have them put in something to divert the snow (which I did). They also said I should file a claim with my insurance company before they come out and fix it.

I feel like they should cover the repair. I consulted with them on placement, and if sliding snow was going to be an issue, they should have advised against putting it there or installed something to stop the snow. It didn't even last 2 months!

Am I being unreasonable? Also is that top portion of pipe completely ruined, or can the dent in the outer layer be banged out?

Sorry for the long post and thank you for any advice!

What brand chimney is it? Most don't allow offsets outside if yours doesn't they didn't follow the directions and therefore they didn't install it to code so you have every right to demand they install it to properly meet code

 

[begreen]

Agreed. The installer might not want your insurance company breathing down their neck . Did the chimney meet the 10-3-2 requirement when it was up? It might be a camera illusion, but the chimney also looks very close to the upstairs window.

A roof brace on the chimney pipe would help prevent this.

 

[somelikeithot45]

What brand chimney is it? Most don't allow offsets outside if yours doesn't they didn't follow the directions and therefore they didn't install it to code so you have every right to demand they install it to properly meet code

I believe it is ameri-vent by duravent. Is there somewhere I can find the info on proper installation.

 

[begreen]

This is from the AmeriVent HS installation instructions:

4. For Overhanging Roofs

a. If roof overhangs the wall of the structure so that passage of the chimney is obstructed, it is necessary to cut a hole in the overhang. Leave a minimum of 2-inch clearance and install the flashing and storm collar per Section A.6.a-e., Page 4 (see Figure 14).

b. Alternate Method: Cut away the portion of overhang as shown in Figure 25, allowing for minimum 2-inch clearance to combustible material. Do not use 30º offsets to overcome overhang.

https://www.ameri-vent.com/assets/files/14v/803993-ameriventmodelhs-hsschimneyinstallationinstructions.pdf

 

[somelikeithot45]

Agreed. The installer might not want your insurance company breathing down their neck . Did the chimney meet the 10-3-2 requirement when it was up? It might be a camera illusion, but the chimney also looks very close to the upstairs window.

A roof brace on the chimney pipe would help prevent this.

If I'm understanding the rule correctly I think it did.

I looked up a the roof brace after the fact and from what I found it's necessary when the pipe is 5 feet over the roofline. This chimney would have been 4ft over the roofline. I'm not sure if any of that us accurate.

 

[begreen]

I looked up a the roof brace after the fact and from what I found it's necessary when the pipe is 5 feet over the roofline. This chimney would have been 4ft over the roofline. I'm not sure if any of that us accurate.

That's correct. In this case, it's not required, but it would have prevented the failure. It does not correct the installation of the 30º offset to avoid the overhang.

 

[somelikeithot45]

This is from the AmeriVent HS installation instructions:

4. For Overhanging Roofs

a. If roof overhangs the wall of the structure so that passage of the chimney is obstructed, it is necessary to cut a hole in the overhang. Leave a minimum of 2-inch clearance and install the flashing and storm collar per Section A.6.a-e., Page 4 (see Figure 14).

b. Alternate Method: Cut away the portion of overhang as shown in Figure 25, allowing for minimum 2-inch clearance to combustible material. Do not use 30º offsets to overcome overhang.
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Thank you for pointing this out for me. I'm guessing that's 30 degree offset.

Now I'm worried about the whole installation. Do you think I should have it inspected so I can get a list of code deficiencies? sorry for being kinda clueless

 

[peakbagger]

The roofers I have worked with call the detail installed above a pipe penetrating a metal roof (or any roof) where there is potential for snow slide or water getting in a "cricket" It diverts any water to either side of the pipe and splits any snow sliding down off the roof. Depending on the snow conditions the snow across the roof can freeze into a large sheet. When it decides to slide, the weight of the snow across the roof can be transferred to the cricket so its needs to be sturdy. Frequently the original cricket is not beefy enough and they can snap off destroying the chimney. It is an art to build one that will hold up. A typical chimney installer will not have that experience to build a heavy-duty cricket. In general, many chimney installs are a source of future roof leaks. This doesn't happen to just chimneys; it also happens with sewer vent pipes and on occasion electrical service entrances.

I dont think its code to install crickets, its just local common sense. When I designed my house year ago I made darn sure that my chimney comes out at the ridgepole. If I have a chimney at the next house it will also be near the ridgepole and my stack vent will be run up under the roof up to the ridge.

 

[somelikeithot45]

The roofers I have worked with call the detail installed above a pipe penetrating a metal roof (or any roof) where there is potential for snow slide or water getting in a "cricket" It diverts any water to either side of the pipe and splits any snow sliding down off the roof. Depending on the snow conditions the snow across the roof can freeze into a large sheet. When it decides to slide, the weight of the snow across the roof can be transferred to the cricket so its needs to be sturdy. Frequently the original cricket is not beefy enough and they can snap off destroying the chimney. It is an art to build one that will hold up. A typical chimney installer will not have that experience to build a heavy-duty cricket. In general, many chimney installs are a source of future roof leaks. This doesn't happen to just chimneys; it also happens with sewer vent pipes and on occasion electrical service entrances.

I dont think its code to install crickets, its just local common sense. When I designed my house year ago I made darn sure that my chimney comes out at the ridgepole. If I have a chimney at the next house it will also be neat the ridgepole and my stack vent will be run up under the roof up to the ridge.

Ya, I wouldn't expect a chimney installer to work on my roof, or want them to if I'm being honest.
What I do expect is that when I pay a large premium to have a professional install something like this, they would either advise against placing the chimney there, or tell me that if they do, I need to get my roofer out.

 

[peakbagger]

Ya, I wouldn't expect a chimney installer to work on my roof, or want them to if I'm being honest.
What I do expect is that when I pay a large premium to have a professional install something like this, they would either advise against placing the chimney there, or tell me that if they do, I need to get my roofer out.

I agree entirely. One of the reasons I do all my own work is that in my area, the so called pros are not, they are just the ones that are willing to work.

 

[bholler]

The roofers I have worked with call the detail installed above a pipe penetrating a metal roof (or any roof) where there is potential for snow slide or water getting in a "cricket" It diverts any water to either side of the pipe and splits any snow sliding down off the roof. Depending on the snow conditions the snow across the roof can freeze into a large sheet. When it decides to slide, the weight of the snow across the roof can be transferred to the cricket so its needs to be sturdy. Frequently the original cricket is not beefy enough and they can snap off destroying the chimney. It is an art to build one that will hold up. A typical chimney installer will not have that experience to build a heavy-duty cricket. In general, many chimney installs are a source of future roof leaks. This doesn't happen to just chimneys; it also happens with sewer vent pipes and on occasion electrical service entrances.

I dont think its code to install crickets, its just local common sense. When I designed my house year ago I made darn sure that my chimney comes out at the ridgepole. If I have a chimney at the next house it will also be near the ridgepole and my stack vent will be run up under the roof up to the ridge.

Crickets are required by code but only for things more than a certain width. Possibly 2" but that's a guess I don't remember offhand. So it wouldn't apply in this case

 

[bholler]

Ya, I wouldn't expect a chimney installer to work on my roof, or want them to if I'm being honest.
What I do expect is that when I pay a large premium to have a professional install something like this, they would either advise against placing the chimney there, or tell me that if they do, I need to get my roofer out.

Well most installers in that case would have installed a roof bracket and in a heavy snow area a snow diverter. We do roofing work all the time. Not all chimney companies do I get that. But they should have known that wasn't going to hold up in an area with any sort of snow load

 

[peakbagger]

I see it happen quite often in my area (northern NH that can get big snow dumps). Many homes in my area were built with asphalt shingle roofs as the contractors can do it with their own crew. Many take shortcuts on soffit and ridge vents so more than few new buildings have ice damming issues as the contractor put in lots of gables and "roof candy" to make the place look expensive. It takes a winter or so for it to become obvious and the original builder is on to his next job and rarely will address the problem. The commercial building owners they build for usually require ice and water shield top to bottom, so the roofs do not leak and many just leave off the gutters as they don't last long with ice damming. The owner lives with for a year or two and then bites the bullet and gets a standing seam installed for the low bid. The good standing seam guys rarely advertise so the owners end up calling the firms that do advertise that are usually an out of town firm with an 800 number and a roller truck that shows up with a crew, forms it to length and slaps it up quick as long as the INS isnt in town. It looks great until the next winter where the vents and chimneys either get bent or sheared off by a snow slide. They may come back to put in some braces if the owner yells enough, but it usually takes another contractor to come put in the crickets (diverters) the right way and then redo the standing seam. Inevitably it leaks but if the Ice and Water shield was installed top to bottom, the leaks just follow whatever is under the standing seam and leaks out at the soffit.

The fix I see roofers do it fab a cricket to match the profile of standing seam that is on there and then attach it to the standing ribs. The cricket has to span at least two ribs, preferably three. They can look ugly for stack vents as the cricket is much wider than the vents to catch two ribs. They also have to stick up quite a bit as a couple of big snow storms can build up before the snow lets loose and if the snow is higher than the cricket it can rip the pipe off at the top of the cricket.

 

[begreen]

Thank you for pointing this out for me. I'm guessing that's 30 degree offset.

Now I'm worried about the whole installation. Do you think I should have it inspected so I can get a list of code deficiencies? sorry for being kinda clueless

I think you have a firm case for this being remedied by the installer. Their work has voided the chimney warranty. They may require a contractor to notch the eave to avoid the use of elbows.