Dauntless Smoke

[Llilith]

Hi everyone. I'm trying to figure out if there is a problem with my VC Dauntless stove or if there is a pressure problem outside. I started a fire this afternoon and smoke was pouring out of the sides of the stove. Damper was open, temp control on high. We've also noticed some smoke lately when we open the top to reload. I think I have a good draft... the break in fires and several fires after were fine with no smoke at all. Over the past week or so there is smoke when we open the top door to reload. I'd appreciate any advice... I don't understand how it went from working pretty well to this smoky beast.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

Im not sure what you mean by .. pouring out of the sides.. can you take a picture and post it...

If your stove has an air leak the opposite will be happening.. your burn will be high...

Have you actually checked the moisture content of the wood your using..

 

[GrumpyDad]

Hi everyone. I'm trying to figure out if there is a problem with my VC Dauntless stove or if there is a pressure problem outside. I started a fire this afternoon and smoke was pouring out of the sides of the stove. Damper was open, temp control on high. We've also noticed some smoke lately when we open the top to reload. I think I have a good draft... the break in fires and several fires after were fine with no smoke at all. Over the past week or so there is smoke when we open the top door to reload. I'd appreciate any advice... I don't understand how it went from working pretty well to this smoky beast.

Welcome fellow Dauntless owner.
The smoke coming out of your stove is likely because you have a poor draft. How warm was it outside when you started your stove and how tall is the stove pipe from the top of the stove to the top of the chimney outside? Is your stove pipe running through the house and up through the roof or mostly outside? Is your pipe double or single wall inside? Draft is determined by a number of factors. I have ~15' (minimum required) of a stove pipe run, and it's all inside, double wall pipe. If I try to light my stove when it's say 45 degrees outside without heating the flue I would have smoke return into the house. I can quickly just hold a piece of paper that I light up into the flue through the damper and it will heat the stove pipe enough to create a draw up out of the living quarters. You might want to try that. Also try the top down fire. I stack the box with kindling which is about 1" to 1.5" thick pieces of wood criss crossed, then put a fire starter on a wood platform and a few pieces of wood over the fire starter then light the stove. Keep the door cracked a little bit but dont forget that you have the door cracked open. If you leave the door cracked, put the handle on the ledge to visibly make you aware that the door is cracked. Once you close the door, put the handle on the left side in the handle holder to make you aware that the door is closed.
The stove will allow smoke into the house from the top hatch from time to time but shouldnt be much. If you are getting a good bit after opening the top hatch, you need to make sure you have the damper open, the air control as high as it will go (all the way forward), and you need to crack the hatch open an inch first, wait a few seconds then slowly open it. Once you have a good burn going, you can expedite opening the lid but it will always allow a tiny bit to go into the room. If you make the mistake of not opening the damper or moving the air control to the highest setting you will get massive amounts of smoke into the room if you open the top hatch.

Also as mentioned by the previous reply, and likely a theme you will see mentioned many times throughout these forums, your wood needs to be well seasoned. There is only ONE place near me that actually sells kiln dried seasoned hardwood and it's $900 for a full cord of wood. Everything else ranges from $200 to $350 a cord, and it's all cut that summer. It takes multiple years for most hardwood to season to the point that you can use it in modern stoves. You will need to buy a moisture meter, take pieces of wood inside and let them sit for 24 hours, then take the wood outside, split them in half and read along the grain of wood to determine your moisture content. Anything greater than 20% and you will create a good bit of creosote and will struggle with this already challenging stove to operate. Oak 19% or less burns great in the dauntless, 23% not so much.

 

[Llilith]

Im not sure what you mean by .. pouring out of the sides.. can you take a picture and post it...

If your stove has an air leak the opposite will be happening.. your burn will be high...

Have you actually checked the moisture content of the wood your using..

I can't take a picture because the smoke is no longer coming out. It stopped after about one minute. What I meant was, as soon as I lit the kindling, smoke starting coming out the sides (looked like it was coming out of seams towards the back). I had the damper open and temp lever to high. Moisture content is 14%.

 

[Llilith]

Welcome fellow Dauntless owner.
The smoke coming out of your stove is likely because you have a poor draft. How warm was it outside when you started your stove and how tall is the stove pipe from the top of the stove to the top of the chimney outside? Is your stove pipe running through the house and up through the roof or mostly outside? Is your pipe double or single wall inside? Draft is determined by a number of factors. I have ~15' (minimum required) of a stove pipe run, and it's all inside, double wall pipe. If I try to light my stove when it's say 45 degrees outside without heating the flue I would have smoke return into the house. I can quickly just hold a piece of paper that I light up into the flue through the damper and it will heat the stove pipe enough to create a draw up out of the living quarters. You might want to try that. Also try the top down fire. I stack the box with kindling which is about 1" to 1.5" thick pieces of wood criss crossed, then put a fire starter on a wood platform and a few pieces of wood over the fire starter then light the stove. Keep the door cracked a little bit but dont forget that you have the door cracked open. If you leave the door cracked, put the handle on the ledge to visibly make you aware that the door is cracked. Once you close the door, put the handle on the left side in the handle holder to make you aware that the door is closed.
The stove will allow smoke into the house from the top hatch from time to time but shouldnt be much. If you are getting a good bit after opening the top hatch, you need to make sure you have the damper open, the air control as high as it will go (all the way forward), and you need to crack the hatch open an inch first, wait a few seconds then slowly open it. Once you have a good burn going, you can expedite opening the lid but it will always allow a tiny bit to go into the room. If you make the mistake of not opening the damper or moving the air control to the highest setting you will get massive amounts of smoke into the room if you open the top hatch.

Also as mentioned by the previous reply, and likely a theme you will see mentioned many times throughout these forums, your wood needs to be well seasoned. There is only ONE place near me that actually sells kiln dried seasoned hardwood and it's $900 for a full cord of wood. Everything else ranges from $200 to $350 a cord, and it's all cut that summer. It takes multiple years for most hardwood to season to the point that you can use it in modern stoves. You will need to buy a moisture meter, take pieces of wood inside and let them sit for 24 hours, then take the wood outside, split them in half and read along the grain of wood to determine your moisture content. Anything greater than 20% and you will create a good bit of creosote and will struggle with this already challenging stove to operate. Oak 19% or less burns great in the dauntless, 23% not so much.

Thanks, this is really helpful. It was about 43 degrees when I started the stove and I think the stove pipe is about 18 feet (it's single wall pipe going into a ceramic lined chimney). We didn't have this problem with other fires, but maybe we haven't had them when it was this temp outside. This would make sense since the fires we had earlier it was much warmer outside... That helps explain why it's happening now and didn't happen on some earlier fires. Also the smoke stopped coming out of the stove after I opened some doors, so maybe that changed the draft? So, you actually reach into the stove and light a piece of paper on fire near the bottom of the flue? I can try that.

I have been making sure the damper is open and the air control is high as it will go before opening the top latch. I will try opening an inch for a bit before opening it fully. We are building top down fires, cause I read that advice here.

Noted on the moisture content. We've been very conscious about that because of the great advice on this forum. I gotta ask, is it the Dauntless that makes you grumpy? I want to love it LOL, but its tough sometimes.

 

[GrumpyDad]

Thanks, this is really helpful. It was about 43 degrees when I started the stove and I think the stove pipe is about 18 feet (it's single wall pipe going into a ceramic lined chimney). We didn't have this problem with other fires, but maybe we haven't had them when it was this temp outside. This would make sense since the fires we had earlier it was much warmer outside... That helps explain why it's happening now and didn't happen on some earlier fires. Also the smoke stopped coming out of the stove after I opened some doors, so maybe that changed the draft? So, you actually reach into the stove and light a piece of paper on fire near the bottom of the flue? I can try that.

I have been making sure the damper is open and the air control is high as it will go before opening the top latch. I will try opening an inch for a bit before opening it fully. We are building top down fires, cause I read that advice here.

Noted on the moisture content. We've been very conscious about that because of the great advice on this forum. I gotta ask, is it the Dauntless that makes you grumpy? I want to love it LOL, but its tough sometimes.

Im just grumpy in general. But yes the dauntless made me more grumpy. Ive learned a good bit since last year when I installed my stove but there is a steep learning curve in comparison to other stoves, especially appliances Ive used in the past.

Also the colder it gets the easier it will draft. So Im not sure why smoke was your issue this time when it was actually a bit colder outside. It could be you just had a different level of pressure outside vs inside or wind difference. If you heat that flue first you'll be fine, or once it gets really cold out you probably wont need to heat it at all.

Sorry the hatch will always let some smoke through if you open it all the way. I crack mine open first an inch, count to three then slowly open it about 5/6 of the way. Sure there are times I could open it all the way and not have smoke come out, but in general that's what I have to do with my stove.

 

[Llilith]

Thanks! I'll probably be back with a few more questions for you if that's ok. Like I said, I want to love the stove - it's beautiful and when it gets going it warms the house like a champ.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

I can't take a picture because the smoke is no longer coming out. It stopped after about one minute. What I meant was, as soon as I lit the kindling, smoke starting coming out the sides (looked like it was coming out of seams towards the back). I had the damper open and temp lever to high. Moisture content is 14%.

If this happens again pleas post a picture and tag me.. You shouldn't have any smoke leaking from the body of the stove.
Im hoping that you have the catalyst in your stove and your burning with it
Are you using the bimetal cat prob if you are
As far as the smoke coming out of the griddle.. (ITS not called a hatch) you should always reestablish draft .. opening that bypass and air.. wait a moment... then open the doors or griddle for loading

 

[Llilith]

If this happens again pleas post a picture and tag me.. You shouldn't have any smoke leaking from the body of the stove.
Im hoping that you have the catalyst in your stove and your burning with it
Are you using the bimetal cat prob if you are
As far as the smoke coming out of the griddle.. (ITS not called a hatch) you should always reestablish draft .. opening that bypass and air.. wait a moment... then open the doors or griddle for loading

Will do, thank you! This is the first time I've seen that, so it was pretty concerning. We are not using the cat. I do always make sure the damper is open and the air adjustment on high before opening. I think we need to wait a bit and open slowly. Hopefully that helps.

 

[joop]

preheat flue should help

 

[Woodsplitter67]

Will do, thank you! This is the first time I've seen that, so it was pretty concerning. We are not using the cat. I do always make sure the damper is open and the air adjustment on high before opening. I think we need to wait a bit and open slowly. Hopefully that helps.

Youll help yourself by installing your catalyst.. At some point your going to need to turn your air back and or close the damper to avoid overheating the stove. The smoke you make will creat creosote. Over time it could build up. Installing the catalyst will help ensure a clean burn.. Please check out the thread I put together about burning with the cat in.. its like 6 threads down on the main VC page..

 

[Llilith]

We are using the stove for ambiance and not for a main heat source or overnight burns. Does this make a difference in your thoughts about the catalyst? We typically have small fires in the evening for just a few hours, one split at a time just to keep a nice cozy fire in the living room. What are your thoughts on the ideal STT range for minimal creosote buildup? I've been relying on the temp gauges on the stove pipe and stove top (yes I bought both cause I was dumb) and trying to stay in the ranges specified on them .

 

[Woodsplitter67]

We are using the stove for ambiance and not for a main heat source or overnight burns. Does this make a difference in your thoughts about the catalyst? We typically have small fires in the evening for just a few hours, one split at a time just to keep a nice cozy fire in the living room. What are your thoughts on the ideal STT range for minimal creosote buildup? I've been relying on the temp gauges on the stove pipe and stove top (yes I bought both cause I was dumb) and trying to stay in the ranges specified on them .

So if you install the cat in the long run you'll be able to have a little more freedom with the stove.. The optimal way to run the stove is to get it up to temperature engage the cat, then adjust the air. The advantage of rhis type of stove is to be able to burn hot or low depending on your needs. Regardless of weather your burning for overnight or not.. running the stove with the catalyst with a half load of wood and the air midway is alot of ambiance..

Having a thermometer for stove top and 1 for the stovepipe is great.. I have both also and its not dumb.. its the correct way to run the stove.. The difference between the way we both burn.. you have to worry about STT or youll wind up with chimney fires because your forced to try and not make any smoke.. So either your SST is high or you make smoke

The way I burn, once the catalyst is engaged.. I adjust the stove based on heat demand or fire viewing.. last weekend my STT was 350 degrees.. and my catalyst was something like 1350.. Other days its 450.. 500 depending on what I want to do.. burning this way, you will find there is less babysitting with the stove

 

[Llilith]

You've given me something to think about for sure. I mean, I'm not opposed to using a catalyst, I just really don't understand how it works. The operation makes sense, based on what you've said. I think if I understood more about what the cat does, I'd be more likely to try it. I need to understand how it works... will need to do some reading unless you feel like explaining like I'm five.
How do you know when to engage the catalyst? What exactly does the catalyst do? Will the glass stay cleaner with the catalyst? Will I have less creosote buildup? I just took a picture of the inside of the flue - this is after burning about 1/4 of a cord of wood since the stove was new in late Sept. Is it bad? It's very powdery.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

So basically the catalyst uses the smoke as fuel. You would need to install a catalyst probe.. many like me use the digital. I will help keep your draft up.. did you read the thread I did a few weeks back

 

[Llilith]

I read a couple, not sure it was the right one... Was it the one about cat temps?

 

[Woodsplitter67]

I read a couple, not sure it was the right one... Was it the one about cat temps?

Burning your stove without the catalyst

The 2n1 stove series of stoves are extremely unique. The most recent stoves are marketed as burning with or without the catalyst as well as other features im not discussing right now. I have always recommended.. especially for newer users .. to burn with the catalyst in. The stove is sold with...

www.hearth.com

this is the one you want to read..

 

[Woodsplitter67]

You've given me something to think about for sure. I mean, I'm not opposed to using a catalyst, I just really don't understand how it works. The operation makes sense, based on what you've said. I think if I understood more about what the cat does, I'd be more likely to try it. I need to understand how it works... will need to do some reading unless you feel like explaining like I'm five.
How do you know when to engage the catalyst? What exactly does the catalyst do? Will the glass stay cleaner with the catalyst? Will I have less creosote buildup? I just took a picture of the inside of the flue - this is after burning about 1/4 of a cord of wood since the stove was new in late Sept. Is it bad? It's very powdery.

View attachment 318946

So the picture attached doesn't help.. normally creosote formation will be midway to the top of the stovepipe. As the gasses cool on the way up is how it happens

Some occasions you'll get it down lower.. this if from you stove stalling.. AKA not burning with a catalyst in and draft dies

 

[Llilith]

So the picture attached doesn't help.. normally creosote formation will be midway to the top of the stovepipe. As the gasses cool on the way up is how it happens

Some occasions you'll get it down lower.. this if from you stove stalling.. AKA not burning with a catalyst in and draft dies

Got it. We just got a soot eater, and we'll clean after thanksgiving just to be safe. Thanks for explaining what "stalling" meant. I was wondering.

 

[Llilith]

Burning your stove without the catalyst

The 2n1 stove series of stoves are extremely unique. The most recent stoves are marketed as burning with or without the catalyst as well as other features im not discussing right now. I have always recommended.. especially for newer users .. to burn with the catalyst in. The stove is sold with...

www.hearth.com

this is the one you want to read..

Thanks for all the time you took to write this up for newbies like me.

 

[SkipperH]

GrumpyDad is not the only Dauntless owner who has had numerous issues with this stove. I applaud those who have adjusted their methods to safely run this stove to provide what the appliance was intended to provide, hours of heat. Personally, despite having many years of burning wood experience, a chimney with adequate draft, good wood moisture content, dealer assistance and trying different methods, hints and when the stove wasn’t out of commission due to a bent damper rod or cracked glass I could not master this stove I threw in the towel losing thousands of $$$$. I purchased a Jotul F45, EPA compliant, no catalyst combuster, one air adjustment, ultra clean glass, good heat and predictability.

 

[Ant428]

GrumpyDad is not the only Dauntless owner who has had numerous issues with this stove. I applaud those who have adjusted their methods to safely run this stove to provide what the appliance was intended to provide, hours of heat. Personally, despite having many years of burning wood experience, a chimney with adequate draft, good wood moisture content, dealer assistance and trying different methods, hints and when the stove wasn’t out of commission due to a bent damper rod or cracked glass I could not master this stove I threw in the towel losing thousands of $$$$. I purchased a Jotul F45, EPA compliant, no catalyst combuster, one air adjustment, ultra clean glass, good heat and predictability.

View attachment 319120

I have a dauntless too. I'm about to throw in the towel and sell it. I got it last year, and its so unpredictable, I cant leave the room for more than 5 minutes with it running. I was looking at Jotul as well.

 

[a59cheffy]

I have observed that on really cold days (ie: Portland) my Dauntless struggles to keep a strong draft if your STT (Stove Top Thermometer) is below 450 degrees. I try to run the stove higher than 450 degrees, keeping it close to 500 - 550 degrees and this alleviates the draft issue. Also I do not close the air control "down". My Dauntless likes air and high temps. I also make sure my wood is less than 20% moisture or you will struggle getting the temps up. The only times I have had smoke come out the top (back puffing) is when the stove and draft have stalled. Not enough heat to pull the smoke up the chimney.

Don't give up just yet! I have gotten to the point of not having to baby sit the stove much at all in my second season with never having owned a wood stove before. The catalytic combustor and a digital probe installed has made all the difference for me. And a wood moisture meter

 

[Woodsplitter67]

I have observed that on really cold days (ie: Portland) my Dauntless struggles to keep a strong draft if your STT (Stove Top Thermometer) is below 450 degrees. I try to run the stove higher than 450 degrees, keeping it close to 500 - 550 degrees and this alleviates the draft issue. Also I do not close the air control "down". My Dauntless likes air and high temps. I also make sure my wood is less than 20% moisture or you will struggle getting the temps up. The only times I have had smoke come out the top (back puffing) is when the stove and draft have stalled. Not enough heat to pull the smoke up the chimney.

Don't give up just yet! I have gotten to the point of not having to baby sit the stove much at all in my second season with never having owned a wood stove before. The catalytic combustor and a digital probe installed has made all the difference for me. And a wood moisture meter

Good post man

 

[GrumpyDad]

I have a dauntless too. I'm about to throw in the towel and sell it. I got it last year, and its so unpredictable, I cant leave the room for more than 5 minutes with it running. I was looking at Jotul as well.

The Jotul looked interesting to me. That was what I was going to get but due to stock issues did not. Ive seen complaints about it too as far as not being able to control it down. That may be due to too much draft or the wood being too dry, I dont know.
Im sure there are no perfect stoves but close to. If I decide to swap out the Dauntless it would need to be something I really can trust is going to be a carefree experience for my family.
Right now, I can use the Dauntless for what I purchased it for but I dont trust to leave it alone on anything but low.