Deciding on an insert

[kevine]

My family just moved into a home - ranch, 2000 sqft - that has an existing fireplace/chimney. The previous owner installed a gas unit which I want to get rid of. I would like to be able to supplement (or even replace, if necessary) my electric/propane furnace usage. I've had two companies come out and give me estimates:

Company 1: IronStrike C210 Performer, total install of $4200
Company 2: QuadraFire Voyager Grand, total install of $6200

I don't particularly like the look of the IronStrike as I want a ZC insert...or close to it at least...to avoid having to extend the hearth. I spent a couple hours reading your "before you post a thread" threads, and the reviews for the Voyager/Voyager Grand have me backtracking on those a bit. What do you guys think of the Timberwolf EPI22? Its not a ZC, but it doesn't seem to protrude far so I think it would be OK. Also, it seems to have better reviews here and is rated higher efficiency than the QFs. Here are some inserts I'm looking at, including those quoted by the estimates I have:

QuadraFire Voyager Grand
IronStrike Performer C210
---
Timberwolf EPI22
QuadraFire 2700i
FireplaceX Large Flush Wood Hybrid-Fyre
Vermont Castings Montpelier
US Stove 2200i
Enviro Cabello 1200
Hampton HI400
IronStrike Striker C160
Blaze King Sirocco 25

Out of those, what would be your vote for the best value? So far, I'm leaning toward the Timberwolf.

Thanks for your help!

 

[kevine]

My family just moved into a home - ranch, 2000 sqft - that has an existing fireplace/chimney. The previous owner installed a gas unit which I want to get rid of. I would like to be able to supplement (or even replace, if necessary) my electric/propane furnace usage. I've had two companies come out and give me estimates:

Company 1: IronStrike C210 Performer, total install of $4200
Company 2: QuadraFire Voyager Grand, total install of $6200

I don't particularly like the look of the IronStrike as I want a ZC insert...or close to it at least...to avoid having to extend the hearth. I spent a couple hours reading your "before you post a thread" threads, and the reviews for the Voyager/Voyager Grand have me backtracking on those a bit. What do you guys think of the Timberwolf EPI22? Its not a ZC, but it doesn't seem to protrude far so I think it would be OK. Also, it seems to have better reviews here and is rated higher efficiency than the QFs. Here are some inserts I'm looking at, including those quoted by the estimates I have:

QuadraFire Voyager Grand
IronStrike Performer C210
---
Timberwolf EPI22
QuadraFire 2700i
FireplaceX Large Flush Wood Hybrid-Fyre
Vermont Castings Montpelier
US Stove 2200i
Enviro Cabello 1200
Hampton HI400
IronStrike Striker C160
Blaze King Sirocco 25

Out of those, what would be your vote for the best value? So far, I'm leaning toward the Timberwolf.

Thanks for your help!

So I just got off the phone with a rep from Company 2 from above. I was asking him about the Timberwolf and he said he wouldn't recommend it because its low quality. He said that the firebricks on the sides are just stacked on top of each other with no retainer clips and not fastened in place and this causes them to fall over time. Can anyone verify/disprove this?

 

[Dix]

Welcome to the forums !!

Pics of said FP, a house layout (rough drawn is ok), dimensions of FP, will help here (and we're pictureholics here !)

PS - get started on your wood supply NOW !

 

[jscs.moore]

My family just moved into a home - ranch, 2000 sqft - that has an existing fireplace/chimney. The previous owner installed a gas unit which I want to get rid of. I would like to be able to supplement (or even replace, if necessary) my electric/propane furnace usage. I've had two companies come out and give me estimates:

Company 1: IronStrike C210 Performer, total install of $4200
Company 2: QuadraFire Voyager Grand, total install of $6200

I don't particularly like the look of the IronStrike as I want a ZC insert...or close to it at least...to avoid having to extend the hearth. I spent a couple hours reading your "before you post a thread" threads, and the reviews for the Voyager/Voyager Grand have me backtracking on those a bit. What do you guys think of the Timberwolf EPI22? Its not a ZC, but it doesn't seem to protrude far so I think it would be OK. Also, it seems to have better reviews here and is rated higher efficiency than the QFs. Here are some inserts I'm looking at, including those quoted by the estimates I have:

QuadraFire Voyager Grand
IronStrike Performer C210
---
Timberwolf EPI22
QuadraFire 2700i
FireplaceX Large Flush Wood Hybrid-Fyre
Vermont Castings Montpelier
US Stove 2200i
Enviro Cabello 1200
Hampton HI400
IronStrike Striker C160
Blaze King Sirocco 25

Out of those, what would be your vote for the best value? So far, I'm leaning toward the Timberwolf.

Thanks for your help!

I would definitely read reviews on this site regarding Vermont Castings inserts...the company has been sold at least a few times and some posts have voiced a lot of concerns about VC inserts. You also want to read up on the HI400 which has a very long thread on page 2 of this forum regarding problems with the Regency CI2900...same as Regency HI400 without the cast iron jacket. Get all the info you can on this site BEFORE buying and make sure you get an insulated liner! And if you have an exterior chimney, make sure you have a block off plate installed! I'm just a newbie going into my second season of burning, but I have found this site to be absolutely invaluable to really understanding and learning how to get the most efficiency out of my insert. There are a lot of really experienced burners and chimney experts on this site that will be more than willing to provide you with feedback!

 

[jscs.moore]

I would definitely read reviews on this site regarding Vermont Castings inserts...the company has been sold at least a few times and some posts have voiced a lot of concerns about VC inserts. You also want to read up on the HI400 which has a very long thread on page 2 of this forum regarding problems with the Regency CI2900...same as Regency HI400 without the cast iron jacket. Get all the info you can on this site BEFORE buying and make sure you get an insulated liner! And if you have an exterior chimney, make sure you have a block off plate installed! I'm just a newbie going into my second season of burning, but I have found this site to be absolutely invaluable to really understanding and learning how to get the most efficiency out of my insert. There are a lot of really experienced burners and chimney experts on this site that will be more than willing to provide you with feedback!

Sorry...it's the Regency CI2600 (not CI2900) that is the same as the Regency HI400...my bad

 

[webby3650]

If you truly want to heat with wood 24/7 go with the BK sirrico 25. It Will out burn all the other units, even if their literature says they are similiar. BK gives real world realistic burn times, not best case senerio in a lab numbers like most others do.

 

[kevine]

Thanks for the heads-up on the specific models. It turns out Company 1 is a Napolean distributor so they can install and service the Timberwolf EPI22, which is the way I'm leaning. However, Blaze King's website says they're also a distributor of theirs so I'm going to check with them about the price of the Sirrico 25. I'm sure its plenty more, but it sounds like it may be worth it. Looking at the materials lists from the two companies' estimates, I see they both included insulated liners, but I'm not sure about the block off plate (I'm not even sure what it is). My chimney is on an exterior wall, so it sounds like it would be a good addition. Here are the material lists from the two:

Company 1:
6"Flue/6"Exhst, 6" - 12" - $203.01
Deluxe Rain Cap - $64.02
18 x 18 Flat Flashing - $59.25
25' x 6" SS Flex (1st 5' Ovalized) - $398.00
Guide Cone - $34.80
6" Stove Starter - $22.32
6" Dripless Connector - $39.00
UL Insulation Liner Add-On - $263.68
Chain Mesh for 6" Liner - $33.52

Company 2:
6" Diameter S.S. Liner Kit - $600.00
1/2" Insulation Kit - $300.00
10460 Collar Plate Cap - $70.00
Air Plate Cap - $160.00
DV-6DLR-E15ADSS S.S. Adapter - $43.01
OAK-ACC Fresh Air Kit and Flex - $89.00
Tar & Mesh for Flashing - $85.00
Crown Coat - $175.00

Comparing the two, do Company 2's materials prices seem high? They're higher than the other guy's...maybe they use better quality parts? What do you guys think? Which price list seems more in line with your experience?

 

[webby3650]

They could both make it a lot simpler by saying 25' liner kit..

Company 1 has you paying for a nose cone, that's odd.
Company 2 included a crown coat, (that's pretty cheap by the way) they also have tar and mesh for the flashing? Shouldn't be using any tar or a flashing for a liner.. An outside air kit is also very uncommon for an insert.

 

[kevine]

They could both make it a lot simpler by saying 25' liner kit..

Company 1 has you paying for a nose cone, that's odd.
Company 2 included a crown coat, (that's pretty cheap by the way) they also have tar and mesh for the flashing? Shouldn't be using any tar or a flashing for a liner.. An outside air kit is also very uncommon for an insert.

The guy told me they always use an outside air kit if the insert will handle it...says it makes it more efficient. After looking at crown coat videos, it seems like something I can do myself. Agree/disagree?

 

[webby3650]

The guy told me they always use an outside air kit if the insert will handle it...says it makes it more efficient. After looking at crown coat videos, it seems like something I can do myself. Agree/disagree?

You can do it yourself. Just prep it well and mask off the edges so it looks nice.

Not very many inserts allow for an OAK, it's good that they do so if there's that option.

 

[prezes13]

Not to hijack the thread, but webby what is the price for shirocco 25?

 

[webby3650]

Not to hijack the thread, but webby what is the price for shirocco 25?

I'm not sure right off hand.

 

[bholler]

Comparing the two, do Company 2's materials prices seem high? They're higher than the other guy's...maybe they use better quality parts? What do you guys think? Which price list seems more in line with your experience?

I can tell you that the liner prices are less than what we charge for sure but we use heavy wall everything else seems about right but there are a few things in each that dont make sense.

1. not sure what the first item is it doesnt seem to fit with an insert install then not sure why they are charging you for a pulling cone they should already have one and if not it should not be your expense. And I am also not sure why they would need a dripless connector. They should just use one peice of liner so no need for a connector. I can tell you for sure their liner price is really low I would be concerned about the quality and the fact that they are going to ovalise the first 5 feet instead of doing it right and cutting out the damper so they can keep it round is a red flag to me.

2 Everything seems about right but the tar and mesh for the flashing. If any company told me they were going to fix my flashing that way I would throw them off my property. And crown coat is a good product as long as your crown is a good candidate for it. I see it used on many that don't need anything and many that are already falling apart and need replaced. I dont know which yours falls into but you should make sure it is a good candidate for sealing before you spend the money for it.

 

[kevine]

Not to hijack the thread, but webby what is the price for shirocco 25?

I got an install estimate for the Sirocco 25 and they said it was $3300.

 

[kevine]

I can tell you that the liner prices are less than what we charge for sure but we use heavy wall everything else seems about right but there are a few things in each that dont make sense.

1. not sure what the first item is it doesnt seem to fit with an insert install then not sure why they are charging you for a pulling cone they should already have one and if not it should not be your expense. And I am also not sure why they would need a dripless connector. They should just use one peice of liner so no need for a connector. I can tell you for sure their liner price is really low I would be concerned about the quality and the fact that they are going to ovalise the first 5 feet instead of doing it right and cutting out the damper so they can keep it round is a red flag to me.

2 Everything seems about right but the tar and mesh for the flashing. If any company told me they were going to fix my flashing that way I would throw them off my property. And crown coat is a good product as long as your crown is a good candidate for it. I see it used on many that don't need anything and many that are already falling apart and need replaced. I dont know which yours falls into but you should make sure it is a good candidate for sealing before you spend the money for it.

Thanks for the info. I'm now leaning towards the Blaze King mainly because of the burn times and the fact that they appear to already meet the 2020 NSPS. I'm sure you guys have answered this many times already, but if your stove/insert doesn't meet the 2020 regs, they can't make you get rid of it, right? If i buy an insert that meets the 2015 regs and am still using it in 2020, that would be legal?

 

[BKVP]

The EPA cannot and does not want to regulate in-situ appliances...so have no worries.

BKVP

 

[NewHeat]

Also shopping and have looked at these, but curious if anyone has opinions about the xtraordinaire/fireplaces/Avalon, which is the direction I've been leaning of the same options...

 

[ejn327]

Hi Kevine,
I just had a BK Sirocco 25 insert installed last month. Haven't used it yet being that it's August but I've been very pleased with how it fit and looks.
I paid just a hair over $5k for the insert, insulated liner and the install.

 

[kevine]

Hi Kevine,
I just had a BK Sirocco 25 insert installed last month. Haven't used it yet being that it's August but I've been very pleased with how it fit and looks.
I paid just a hair over $5k for the insert, insulated liner and the install.

That's good to know. My estimate for the insert and install is just over $5500, so not too far off from yours.

 

[schwaggly]

I just purchased an extremely lightly used Hampton 1200. I had the dressed down Regency for years and have a spare blower so this was a no brainier. I got an amazing deal from a really nice guy who bought the larger version. I told him that I had the same stove for years at my old house and would buy it with a visual inspection and plug in blower to make sure it worked. I think he was fed up with Yahoo's on Craigslist and hooked me up.