Desperate new member seeks professional help, Jotul QT gas Sacramento, CA

[Purzell]

Good morning everyone:

I have been a long time user of this forum but never joined. I am finally out of ideas (mostly skill) and really need a recommendation for a professional to come try to fix my stove for once and for all.
I will tell you all my story, many parts of which will sound very familiar from other threads. I have read through most of the relevant threads and although the answer is probably there, I just don't have the skill to address it myself (nor did the past two technicians who came to my house, at not-insignificant expense.) It just seems to be the kind of thing that "messing about with" will just make worse.

I have a Jotul QT gas stove which was purchased about 10 years ago.
When the stove was purchased it was installed as a direct vent through a wall. There was a double wall tube running out the back into the wall, and it worked great. After running it this way with no issues for almost six years (save for some aesthetic complaints regarding the flame size being small), we moved and the stove sat unused for about two years. The house we moved into had a standard brick fireplace (wood box?) with chimney.

Last year we wanted to run the stove in the new house, which has a regular chimney. I had the stove installed by a guy recommended by our local fireplace shop (also where the stove was purchased that 8 years ago).

The guy who came from Custom Fireside didn't want to do the job because he said the stove would look ugly sticking out of the brick surround and wanted me to buy trim piece to put around it etc. He ended up doing the install (without the shroud/trim) but I was unhappy about how far the stove stuck out of the firebox. The issue was the double wall straight tube (about 14" long) that stuck out of the back of the stove, which originally went through the wall in my old house. It was still installed on the stove and the installer from CF said it was part of the stove and couldn't come off. So essentially the stove was standing in front of the firebox with lots of black pipe visible behind. But he did the install, leaving this long pipe, installing an L-shaped pipe, then into a double wall chimney pipe through my brick chimney.

NOTE: I never ran the stove for any amount of time at this point, we just turned it on to see if it worked. It was summer.

Unhappy with the look of the install, I hired another independent installer to take a look. This guy is the one who originally plumbed in the gas line for the stove. He immediately removed the double wall pipe that was sticking out behind the stove, stating that this pipe was NOT part of the stove but a leftover part of the through-wall install, and that the new L-pipe coming out of the back now was double walled and accomplished the same thing. So this guy removed the extra length of pipe and put it back together. I much preferred the look at this point as the stove sat further back in the firebox and looked nicer.

I began to use the stove. It would run for about twenty minutes and then go out. I called yet another technician. The guy on the phone sounded very competent. The guy who showed up, however, told me he had never heard of Jotul but that "all gas stoves operate the same." I became concerned. He recommended the replacement of the "sit top mount pilot assembly" and told me I could do it myself. It was "bolt on." I did it. The stove seemed to work.

It became windy. The stove would go out when it got windy. I began to believe that I have a venting issue.
The windy weather stopped. The stove would go out when I ran it for about a half hour. I began to believe that I have a bad thermocouple again...I ran it without the door glass one day for about a half hour and it never went out. I began to believe it was the vent after all....

I ran it this morning on a perfect pleasant day. The flames got smaller and smaller (it ran for about twenty minutes to a half hour) and eventually it went out. It makes a loud click when it turns off.

OK, I apologize that was a very long winded story. I have reached the point where I really need a good technician to come and do all those multimeter tests that I am certain from my reading of this forum, need to be done. I need someone to look at the installation of the chimney and tell me if the venting is correct. I am way over my head and I don't know how to do this stuff. I hoped to lay out all the details in that long story.

Can anyone direct me to a really competent technician in the Sacramento, CA area please? And I apologize if anyone had better luck with, or works for the place I mentioned above. But my experience was very poor with them and I don't intend to call them again.

 

[Lake Girl]

Pulled up the manual out of curiosity ...
I know zero about natural gas stoves but trying to rule out simple things that could be overlooked...

Is the exhaust restrictor plate in place? Necessary for vertical vent installs... pages 8 & 9 Seems your problems started when you switched from horizontal to vertical venting.

Was the install done using a manometer to test your inlet and manifold pressures? page 16 of the manual.

Let us know how you make out

 

[Purzell]

Pulled up the manual out of curiosity ... file:///C:/Users/Acer/Downloads/GF100%20(1).pdf
I know zero about natural gas stoves but trying to rule out simple things that could be overlooked...

Is the exhaust restrictor plate in place? Necessary for vertical vent installs... pages 8 & 9 Seems your problems started when you switched from horizontal to vertical venting.

Was the install done using a manometer to test your inlet and manifold pressures? page 16 of the manual.

Let us know how you make out

Thanks for your reply.
I can't tell if the exhaust restrictor is in place without taking apart the inside of the stove. You can't see it just by looking into the stove. I am loathe to start disassembling the stove before I have a pro check it out, in case I bodge something else.

But this could be a simple answer....so I will consider figuring out how to disassemble the stove unless someone loudly says NO.

I don't know about the manometer question. I didn't watch the installer because I honestly wouldn't have known what he was doing. I would have just gotten in the way.

 

[Lake Girl]

Sorry, just noticed the link didn't work ... (broken link removed to http://jotul.com/us/products/stoves/discontinued-wood-stoves) there is an icon on top for gas stoves and the QT shows up. Manual can be downloaded from there. Page 8 text with photo... removal of glass and log set; two sheet metal screws should be in place but likely you no longer have the restrictor plate (if you ever did ... stove shop that originally installed likely turfed it since it was a horizontal install). Restrictor plate required for vertical vent install due to stronger draft...

Take a look at the manual - only you can determine if you have the skill. If you do your own maintenance on the firebox, you already do this. Always turn off gas before working on the stove...

 

[DAKSY]

Sorry to chime in late here. The lack of restrictor plate MAY cause issues on a vertical vented stove, but if it runs with the glass off, then it sounds to me that the installer has the intake & exhaust tubes mixed up. I'd try reversing them. You'll probably need a screw gun with a magnetic 1/4 hex tip.

 

[Purzell]

Sorry to chime in late here. The lack of restrictor plate MAY cause issues on a vertical vented stove, but if it runs with the glass off, then it sounds to me that the installer has the intake & exhaust tubes mixed up. I'd try reversing them. You'll probably need a screw gun with a magnetic 1/4 hex tip.

Thank you Daksy and Lake Girl.

OK, I'm going to open it up to look for the restrictor plate but the two screws doesn't seem to be the only thing keeping me from the back of the unit. There's a full angled piece of metal that is the back of the "fire box" in front of where that restrictor plate will be, so I will have to get that off.

Now Daksy, where are the two tubes? Are they inside the vertical part of the chimney? Because coming out the back of this stove is just one L shaped tube, leading into another vertical tube, then a large round flat piece shaped like a cake layer is right at the hole into the chimney. I assume there are tube(s) above that, and not sure how that round piece is attached up there. I'm guessing since my chimney used to burn wood there is an open position and it's hooked onto that somehow...

 

[DAKSY]

The coaxial (4"pipe within a 6-5/8"pipe) should be attached to a co-axial to co-linear adapter.
The co-linear 3" vent tubes are attached to the adapter, & run all the way to the cap.

 

[Purzell]

The coaxial (4"pipe within a 6-5/8"pipe) should be attached to a co-axial to co-linear adapter.
The co-linear 3" vent tubes are attached to the adapter, & run all the way to the cap.

This is what it looks like behind my stove. You can just see the silver tubes that run up the chimney, above the cake layer pan shaped thing. I'm guessing this is where you thing the are crossed?
Everything below that cap is one solid tube.

 

[DAKSY]

Hmm. That is a different component than I am used to seeing, but, yes that should be the adapter. If that is totally inaccessible, you can also reverse
them at the under side of the chimney cap. The problem with having the co-linear venting reversed, is that the HOT exhaust gases exit the cap lower than the COLD intake & that is a no-no. The exhaust will rise & get sucked back into the intake. The flames will die from oxygen depletion. The exhaust has to exit the top of the cap.

 

[Lake Girl]

DAKSY, makes sense now... Makes it easier if you have first hand experience. Haven't been near a natural gas stove since I was a kid ... being a kid, I never paid much mind.

 

[Heatsource]

if reversing flues doesn't help...
inner liner probably not sealed with milpac, draft issues

 

[Purzell]

Heatsource might be right. The old Straight shaped color had a red glue like sealant connecting it to the pipe through the wall. The new L pipe was just screwed on, no sealer. I'm going to take it apart and put the sealer in...as I am assuming the red sealer was the Milpac you refer to. This is the easier of the two options( milpac or reversing flues) because I can't get on my roof without climbing gear and the bottom has very little room to work...

 

[Lake Girl]

Have you tried getting a restrictor plate?

 

[Purzell]

Now that I know about the sealant I plan to take it all apart and also find out if the restrictor plate is on there. I can't tell because there is an exhaust baffle (per the parts breakdown that's what it's called) in the way and I haven't disassembled it yet. I can't see past the exhaust baffle and will have to take apart the whole inside of the stove.

Regarding the pipe to the rear which is L shaped...it goes right into a short section of pipe that appears to be permanently part of the stove. The L shaped pipe doesn't have the two part construction that the old straight pipe had...with a male areato put the sealant on...I'm assuming I have the wrong L pipe and need a different one? Or will just sealing it do the trick.

I'll post some pics as I take it apart

 

[Purzell]

Oh yeah, if restrictor plate is missing not sure where to buy. Internet search found none. Jotul part 129344 I think...

 

[Lake Girl]

Not sure of the vendor but it is available $11 :
(broken link removed)

 

[DAKSY]

Oh yeah, if restrictor plate is missing not sure where to buy. Internet search found none. Jotul part 129344 I think...

Any hearthshop that sells Jotul stoves or Jotul stove parts can order it for you.

 

[DAKSY]

Now that I know about the sealant I plan to take it all apart and also find out if the restrictor plate is on there. I can't tell because there is an exhaust baffle (per the parts breakdown that's what it's called) in the way and I haven't disassembled it yet. I can't see past the exhaust baffle and will have to take apart the whole inside of the stove.

Regarding the pipe to the rear which is L shaped...it goes right into a short section of pipe that appears to be permanently part of the stove. The L shaped pipe doesn't have the two part construction that the old straight pipe had...with a male areato put the sealant on...I'm assuming I have the wrong L pipe and need a different one? Or will just sealing it do the trick.

I'll post some pics as I take it apart

Please post that pic. If you don't have a co-axial piece of DV pipe in the system, that's the problem. You are sucking the exhaust back into the intake.

 

[Purzell]

Ok I remembered incorrectly. The L pipe is coaxial but there is no sealant on the male part. You can see the sealant inside from the old pipe inside the stove.
Also I can't feel any restrictor plate inside. I took off the exhaust baffle but can't figure out how to get behind it. But I can reach behind it and feel the hole with no plate over it.
So I am off to Home Depot to get the sealant for starters...any other advice?
If after this it is a matter of the two tubes up the chimney being reversed I'm kind of in trouble because I will have to have that dealt with from the roof.

 

[Purzell]

Inside stove

 

[Purzell]

Update: the sealant is in. Now we wait.

 

[Purzell]

Update: since putting in the sealant it has run for several hours without shutting off! I think/hope this was the issue and I am so glad Heatsource thought of it. And thank you all for your help with this.

I should add though I still do not know what the deal with the restrictor plate is. I am wondering if maybe this stove actually doesn't have one, because I can't see anyway to get to it.

 

[DAKSY]

From page 8 of the manual...
Vent Restriction
The Nordic QT is shipped with an Exhaust Restrictor Plate
which prevents overly strong draft that can cause poor
combustion and weak flame picture.
The Exhaust
Restrictor should be installed on any stove using a
vertical termination or snorkel termination.
Additional restriction may be needed depending the
overall vent height. Most vent manufacturer’s offer inline
vent restrictors that install between two pipe
sections. Follow the vent manufacturer’s installation
instructions.
Exhaust Restrictor Plate
:
1. Remove the glass panel and log set.
2. Using a 1/4” nut driver, remove the two sheet metal
screws in the rear wall of the firebox below the
exhaust hole. See fig. 5.
3. Install the restrictor plate over the lower half of the
exhaust hole and secure the plate using the same
screws that were just removed.
4. Reinstall logs and glass.

 

[Lake Girl]

Glad to hear you can actually use the unit now! Let us know if you try to install the restrictor plate and what, if any, change it makes.

 

[Heatsource]

glad to hear that might have been the solution