Is this by design or I need to tighten these bolts or do something else?
Thanks .
Do I need to fix it on my trailer.
- Thread starter Dmitry
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Is this by design or I need to tighten these bolts or do something else?
Thanks .
they make them like that for shipping, final assembly at the store.
IF it is actually bouncing up and down enough to hit the bolts each direction a lot - it will eventually turn those bolts into halves - I personally would at least take a look at the bolts - support the trailer and pull them - probably one at a time - and see if it is getting wear from it. failure could eventually be a real option. and then you have a loose trailer on adventure that you are liable for. eek! safety chains are up there on the end that would still be attached to your tow vehicle. electrical wires won't hold it close for more than a couple seconds.
the positive side of this design is that if you ever get the tongue bent for you, it is an easy replacement!
since it is light enough to turn over without a crane - I would weld and then of course paint over the repair.
probably have wiring running through the pipe - I would take that out before welding and then put it back. those little guys are worth their weight in gold out here - I know lots of people wishing they had bought one before steel prices went up. looks like a carry-on trailer style - they might be a resource to reach out to and ask.
and if that tongue feels a little flimsy - one could get a tube of the same outer diameter and replace it with heavier, or find a piece to sleeve it. justa thought!
IF it is actually bouncing up and down enough to hit the bolts each direction a lot - it will eventually turn those bolts into halves - I personally would at least take a look at the bolts - support the trailer and pull them - probably one at a time - and see if it is getting wear from it. failure could eventually be a real option. and then you have a loose trailer on adventure that you are liable for. eek! safety chains are up there on the end that would still be attached to your tow vehicle. electrical wires won't hold it close for more than a couple seconds.
the positive side of this design is that if you ever get the tongue bent for you, it is an easy replacement!
since it is light enough to turn over without a crane - I would weld and then of course paint over the repair.
probably have wiring running through the pipe - I would take that out before welding and then put it back. those little guys are worth their weight in gold out here - I know lots of people wishing they had bought one before steel prices went up. looks like a carry-on trailer style - they might be a resource to reach out to and ask.
and if that tongue feels a little flimsy - one could get a tube of the same outer diameter and replace it with heavier, or find a piece to sleeve it. justa thought!
Try to tighten up the bolts and see if that helps. Otherwise they might have drilled the holes a size too big to ensure the bolts would line up.
If you can't tighten it up go up to the next size bolt, say that's 1/2" right now, drill the hole 9/16" instead (ensure the tongue is in the trailer while doing this to guarantee alignment and do it one bolt at a time) then slide in the 9/16" bolt, tighten, and you should be fine.
Other option is to weld it solid.
If you can't tighten it up go up to the next size bolt, say that's 1/2" right now, drill the hole 9/16" instead (ensure the tongue is in the trailer while doing this to guarantee alignment and do it one bolt at a time) then slide in the 9/16" bolt, tighten, and you should be fine.
Other option is to weld it solid.
My FIL has one of those trailers. It loosened up about 6 months after he bought it.
I welded it on each side at the front then 4 welds on each side on the bottom and it hasn't moved in 15 years. Fenders and tires have rotted out but the tongue is still solid.
I am saying this out of the utmost respect to all of the awesome people on this forum - I am not trying to insult anyone - I think the entire group is awesome!
as far as that trailer - and all of them built and sold that way:
if it goes out on the public roads behind a vehicle at highway speeds, that would be risky with a history of bolts that hold the tongue on coming loose.
if you don't check your equipment and it breaks and kills or hurts someone - that is "negligence" - your insurance company raises rates. for you and everyone else.
if you know about the problem and do nothing - or just tightening it - when you know it works loose - could easily be considered "gross negligence". way different story. and why risk hurting anyone?
I have sat on these kind of deals waiting for the authorities to show up- including airplanes - if there is a fatality NTSB wants to come have a look - and they like to blame someone. this is way too easy a fix with a welder and not have to go through any of that.
I was hit by a camp trailer that had been dropped onto a 1 7/8 ball - and it had a 2" coupler. my left hand doesn't work well because of it. totaled a nice old pickup I was quite fond of.
his safety chains broke as it bounced from the mount on his blazer - probably doing closer to 70 than the then 55 rule. it was suddenly in front of me on the highway.
he admitted at the scene he knew it was the wrong ball - "but that doesn't matter" - he told the state cop.
I bought a nice piece of ground. I miss my left hand being fully functional - I would trade this ground to have had that back.
I learned his lesson better than he did, I believe.
I know we can nit pick things like this all day. if it was my thing - I would weld it up today, and be done with that worry. I would not tow it again like it is - except (empty) to a welding shop if I couldn't weld. it has already shown to be loose. it will do it again.
i am on the same vein of thinking as you are...When I make trips to HD with my pick up truck I tie everything down no matter what it is and have it secured to the side rail..My carpenter (25 years) thinks this is unnecessary but I do it anyway and have to get help to tie down or do it myself..He refuses to do this for me (one of his attitude problem--lol but I love him anywayi)--just writing this to show some of the flack people can get trying to be safe conscience.They should be supported but it rarely happens...One day a piece of light plywood hit my truck window and broke my mirror as I was behind another pick up truck and as it was flying through the air almost had a heart attack and could not turn in any direction because of the other cars all around "doing their own thing to get away" so these types of affairs are dangerous and not very pleasant to go through--I was lucky..Do what ever you have to do to make that trailer safe for it could involve a whole bunch of people..Sorry about your left hand cool1 and I have been there and still am with shoulder damage by slipping on ice doing a good deed for another person and the bottom line was --they didn't even care---sometimes life is like this...I am a worry wort anyway but I do say "safety first"..clancey
I agree with you and would probably weld it myself. But I also wouldn't be afraid to drill the holes and replace the bolts with grade 8s and high quality nylocks.
Ok, here is an update.
I unscrewed the tongue and expected bolts. Not much wear on them. I believe it was assembled at the tractor supply by one of their out-of-high school employees. I blame myself for not double-checking . I tightened it up, its 19cm bolts, seem to hold well.
I did not use it that much, just occasional dirt from HD, so not much damage is done to it.
I unscrewed the tongue and expected bolts. Not much wear on them. I believe it was assembled at the tractor supply by one of their out-of-high school employees. I blame myself for not double-checking . I tightened it up, its 19cm bolts, seem to hold well.
I did not use it that much, just occasional dirt from HD, so not much damage is done to it.
Kudos for checking on it, I see way too many preventable accidents out on the highways!
I would be sure to check for play every time I hooked it up - part of that due diligence thing. and one should be checking the lights every time they hook up, so it could be an easy added part of the routine thing!
I would be sure to check for play every time I hooked it up - part of that due diligence thing. and one should be checking the lights every time they hook up, so it could be an easy added part of the routine thing!
it is a design failure - they all do it- we even heard about a father in law having one in this thread - two bolts to hold a tongue with a history of coming loose. the entire fleet of these. I have hauled loads of them to stores - and even the store managers laughed about the bolts never staying tight. if your tongue can come unbolted and your safety chains wont even be attached to your trailer - it is a design fail.
eventually those bolts will shear. hauling wood/dirt/whatever these little guys always get overloaded - why take the chance?
thanks to people like Dmitry, fewer accidents happen - but lots of people throw the trailer on and run - not checking lights/tires/etc - and then overloaded underinflated tires pop, among a few other common issues. or even noticing the problem like this until it falls off.
just last week a friend of mine called me - uhaul trailer stuck under their car.
she had a 1 7/8 ball on her car - which I think should not exist - but uhaul dropped a little 4x7 flatbed on her car - with a 2" coupler. it stayed on until she loaded the trailer- 55 mph and one bump on the highway - she had a mess. damage to her car, safety chains broke, and wiring damage on both. at least the tongue stayed on.
salecker
Minister of Fire
If people knew how to load trailers properly...
A lot of accidents would not happen.
Obviously if it is loaded heavy in the back it will not tow properly,plus loaded heavy in the back the 2" coupler will and can pop off a 2" ball.
I have been doing recoveries on the Alaska Highway for to long and can tell you all kinds of stories of accidents that quit waiting to happen and i cleaned up the mess.
People who have zero ability's to handle a vehicle should not be adding a trailer to their issues.
To many innocent people get caught up in their stupidness.
A lot of accidents would not happen.
Obviously if it is loaded heavy in the back it will not tow properly,plus loaded heavy in the back the 2" coupler will and can pop off a 2" ball.
I have been doing recoveries on the Alaska Highway for to long and can tell you all kinds of stories of accidents that quit waiting to happen and i cleaned up the mess.
People who have zero ability's to handle a vehicle should not be adding a trailer to their issues.
To many innocent people get caught up in their stupidness.
and at this point the holes in the metal are wallowing out. tightening them up will cover the symptom for a while - but I would bet that in 3 loads or less, the tongue will be at an odd angle again. we all know that metal expands and contracts with temperature changes. you cannot keep those bolts tight. part of the problem is the square tube will give as well.
I still maintain Kudos to Dmitry for catching it and being proactive on it. most people never look at things like that until after it "suddenly" breaks.
you could drill those out to 1" and put grade 8 one inch - and it will still wallow those holes. the metal they make those with will just do that with a two bolt design. two vertical and two horizontal with the proper lockwashers/nylocks would be better, but since they ship them to be assembled by store crew - all in the name of profit - is just a bad plan in the long term. lots of people get hurt and killed out there on the highways.
for occasional use and keeping an eye on it - might get by your whole life with it the way it is currently.
target consumer is basically weekend warrior - but just like a C- is a passing grade - why not do your best.
I would weld it if it was mine. I have done just that to a lot of them, for these reasons.
I too have cleaned up and hauled off a lot of messes caused by people that should not have been towing. I have retired, and I do not know who is filling that gap now.
I still maintain Kudos to Dmitry for catching it and being proactive on it. most people never look at things like that until after it "suddenly" breaks.
you could drill those out to 1" and put grade 8 one inch - and it will still wallow those holes. the metal they make those with will just do that with a two bolt design. two vertical and two horizontal with the proper lockwashers/nylocks would be better, but since they ship them to be assembled by store crew - all in the name of profit - is just a bad plan in the long term. lots of people get hurt and killed out there on the highways.
for occasional use and keeping an eye on it - might get by your whole life with it the way it is currently.
target consumer is basically weekend warrior - but just like a C- is a passing grade - why not do your best.
I would weld it if it was mine. I have done just that to a lot of them, for these reasons.
I too have cleaned up and hauled off a lot of messes caused by people that should not have been towing. I have retired, and I do not know who is filling that gap now.
The metal does not expand and contract enough from temperature changes to loosen the bolts. Besides the steel the trailer is built with and the bolts are built with similar metals and will expand and contract at essentially the same rate.
If the bolt holes and the bolt are drilled the same size they will last a very long time, movement occurs because it is typical in mass production to oversize the holes a small amount (say 1/16") to allow enough tolerance to ensure the pieces always fit. If the bolt holes are the same diameter as the bolts there is very little movement allowed and there isn't enough force applied in that movement to erode the hole or the bolt. A 1" bolt is unnecessary and will remove material (strength) from the hitch tube.
It is highly likely the steel in that trailer is A36 grade, which is standard for most structural steel. When someone refers to "mild steel" quite often this is the grade referred to. Mills don't make some junk grade of steel just to build trailers with and sell at 10% less.
Adding vertical bolts to the joint won't necessarily fix the problem either, a joint like this is built to allow the shear strength of the bolt to hold the load, but is also designed so that the outside angles on either side of the tongue deflect when tightened to provide a friction joint between the square HSS (tube) and the angles beside it, if this joint is tightened correctly the bolts don't see shear load at all, just tension holding the pieces tight.
Welding is a great plan should someone have the tools and skill to do it, the problem is a lot of backyard welders don't know what a quality weld looks like or even what welding consumable to use. It would be real easy for a backyard "welder" to weld that up with a bunch of undercut in the weld and cut the strength of the HSS in half.
I'm not here to argue, and I'm sorry that you were hurt in an accident involving a trailer coming unhitched, but I build pressure piping and steel structures for a living, and most of your suggestions simply aren't based upon fact or accepted design and fabrication criteria.
cwitham
Member
When you finally decide to weld that hitch on (and you should) do yourself a favor and weld some 2x2" box tube across the width of the trailer everywhere the factory used angle iron. You can thank me later for that little tidbit. We bent the angle that hitch attaches to, once I welded the 2x2 on the bottom of it that trailer the trailer is way better.
I ran a piece of very heavy 2x2 box tube steel on one a guy had that problem with and bent - and made the tongue almost a foot longer - the geometry fit his S-10 better, all of a sudden he could back it in off the street in one pass. I am sure I will get some angry retort to that - but it has been fifteen years and he still uses it way too hard, and it is still holding up. we just put new bearings in it last weekend. (almost too late!)
